Custom bodied Packards

[Owen_Dyneto]

Thus encouraged, here's a few more. The 1938 (or 39?) Vignale, from the Marano collection. Started in 1938 or 39 on a 120 chassis, hidden during the war, and completed postwar, obviously one-of-a-kind. And two shots of the 34 LeBaron 1106 sport coupe that was factory undated with a 1935 nose, dash panel, and other details, this one owned by a NJ collector. A 1937 Dietrich dual-cowl Twelve photographed at Warren at the 1937 Opus; it has many interesting details but the rear-hinged front doors caught my attention. Like many Twelves from 1935 on, it has a body serial number (thief-proof) from a prior year, in this case from the 1936 range (like so many 39 Twelves have bodies in the 1938 range.) A pair of 1106s from the Marano collection. And lastly a 1934 Twelve by Dietrich from the Bahre collection, with another just to the left. All photos by this writer. Enjoy!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[Owen_Dyneto]

And a few more 34 LeBarons. Note the really interesting (but no doubt of dubious function) headlight-mounted rear view mirrors on the 1108 phaeton (at the Bahre collection). The photos of the unrestored LeBaron are not mine, forget the details but it may have been the Stern car? Last photo set of 4 with the Vignale are from the Marano collection.

[Owen_Dyneto]

Interior photo of the updated 1106.

[K8096]

The doors are hinged on the 1937 Twelve phaeton in that manner because it's basically a left over 1935 - 1936 body. Even if it were newly constructed for 1937, why bother with the time and expense of re-engineering the door latching system for such a limited production car? (only a handful built)

[Dave Mitchell]

Interesting door panel treatment on the 34/35 coupe. What are the instruments in the glove box doors? The defroster deflector became what was used in 37. I never saw that heater before - what is it? Who has that car now? Did Joe Cassini own it after Arturo Keller? I haven't seen it for a few years.

[Dave Mitchell]

Is the 34 LeBaron boat tail the Bohman & Schwartz modified Gable car before restoration?

Please keep the photos coming. I definitely enjoy them. I think the wane was due to Christmas.

I like the 32 - 34 Dietrichs a lot, I know of 3 34 runabout/coupe roadsters, not sure I would paint one that shade of green, but still a great car. Of the three, I like the dark red one the best in terms of color. I will look for a photo of that one.

Al - no I have never seen a bad Waterhouse. They did some great cars. Too bad more don't survive - like the Rolls they did with roll up walnut shutters for the windows.

Where is the 38 Rollston dual cowl now?

I too like the 41 LeBarons, both sport broughams and 7passenger sedans/limos.

I have never seen the 37 dual cowl that I recall - nice car. Where is it now? I love the 35/36 dual cowls. Big, elegant, sporty, clean lines, look good top up or down. What do you say Al?

The Derham 845 is an interesting car, well built with good lines. I think there are a couple around. It was tough to top the production "body by Packard" 745 roadster though.

[Owen_Dyneto]

Dave, re the updated 1106, Judge Cassini still owns it to the best of my knowledge. The set of pictures front and rear were taken at the Metro Region CCCA Grand Classic just last year and he was the exhibitor at that time, I believe. The 37 Twelve dual cowl Dietrich was owned at the time (2008) but a man from Texas, didn't get his name, but he was emphatic that it was the first and would be the last time the car would ever be shown!

Edited December 27, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto (see edit history)

[Dave Mitchell]

West, I am guessing that the owner of the victoria won't stay secret for long. I am sure Dale will do a great job on it. I had heard that he wanted to restore it.

[Dave Mitchell]

Another town car - it seems like very few of these survived. Also a showroom photo of a Dietrich convertible victoria.

[Dave Mitchell]

Too bad he won't show the 37 dual cowl, that is an interesting car. Didn't the White House have a regular phaeton like that which later burned?

Judge Cassini has some great cars. Dave Kane too. Do you have any photos from his collection?

[Owen_Dyneto]

Just a few odds and ends. A better photo of the 645 Murphy town car, taken at the PAC National in Danvers Mass. That's noted Packard historian Jim Pearsall at the wheel (lucky dog!). The red victoria with the 32 FWD prototype next to it is from the Bahre collection, though I forget the details on this one. I though it might be Bohman & Schwartz, can't quite make out the script on the side panel near the grille. But one of you guys will know for sure. A better (?) picture of what I believe to the the Twin Six by Kimball for Gen. Pershing, taken at the Warren Centennial. And a 34 Twelve Dietrich convertible sedan under restoration at Automotive Restorations in NJ, and again after it's prize-winning trip to Pebble. Though my leaning is to well--preserved original cars, this is one incredibly fine restoration!!

[Owen_Dyneto]

Too bad he won't show the 37 dual cowl, that is an interesting car. Didn't the White House have a regular phaeton like that which later burned?

Judge Cassini has some great cars. Dave Kane too. Do you have any photos from his collection?

The last factory bodied phaeton was 1936, Stalin's buddy Beria had one and I have a photo of it somewhere, I've only been thru about 30% of my pictures. I seem to recall that the White House phaeton that burned was in a museum or collection in Cape May, NJ? Long time ago.

A great advantage of being in the Metro Region CCCA is the frequent viewing of Marano, Kane, Cassini and Zeccardi cars. I do have some photos of them, but it will take a bit of digging. That's about it for the moment. Glad you enjoyed, I hope others do as well.

Dave

[Dave Mitchell]

The 41 at Bahre's is a Bohman & Schwartz on a 160 chassis. They did a lwb 40 that Bill Snyder in CA owns, originally built for Mr. Williams of shaving cream fame. They did 3 41s on speculation and one was destroyed in a road accident in the 40s, the other two survive. I really like those, as well as the 40. I think both 41s have been updated to 180s, but the body tags indicate that they started life as 160s.

[Dave Mitchell]

I look forward to seeing what you come up with in the other 70%.

[Dave Mitchell]

I found this on the net - does anyone know what it is?

[Dave Mitchell]

photo

[Dave Mitchell]

Another town car - this one a 38 120 Franay

[Dave Mitchell]

A couple of earlier cars - Van Den Plas convertible victoria, Derham convertible sedan, 745 Dietrich sedan, 33 12 Dietrich convertible victoria

[Dave Mitchell]

30 Rollston

[Owen_Dyneto]

Dave Mitchell, do you have a copy of "The Coachbuilt Packard" by Pfau? A must-have book if prewar custom Packards are your cup of tea. Lots of great pictures, but I hesitate to scan and post as it's a copyrighted publication.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto (see edit history)

[K8096]

Has the formerly brown with red wheels 1929 645 towncar been restored now? I liked it as an original car. It looks like a new paint job in the latest photo.

[K8096]

There was a 1932 Packard Eight in Northern Ohio in the early 1970's that had basically the same body as the Twin Six club sedan Dave posted a photo of. It had no body tags on it at the time, so no one knew for sure what the body was, but some guessed Waterhouse. It was sold out of the area in the mid 1970's and no one has seen it since.

[Dave Mitchell]

I have had the Pfau book for years. It is a great book. I was lucky to find a one off car that is in there. I knew instantly what car it was when I heard about it because of the photo in "The Coachbuilt Packard". It would be fun to do a new book on the same theme.

I think the owner of the town car left it as original as possible and just redid what had to be done.

[Dave Mitchell]

There is a Waterhouse sedan that was in California a couple of years ago.

[Owen_Dyneto]

Here's a better picture of the ex-Ed Hermann LeBaron on a 120 chassis. Also a picture of friend Sal Saiya's 36 Twelve Dietrich convertible victoria. This car is now nearing completion of a full restoration after having sat is Sal's basement for about 20 years while he completed other projects. Its primarily an owner restoration excepting for paint and upholstery and is going to be an exceptional example. Its VN is 927-2XX but the Dietrich plate is 827-2XXX which corresponds to a 1935 thief-proof number, a situation not uncommonly found with the Twelves and commented on previously. That's Sal in the front and me standing in the back seat area. Photographer of the LeBaron unknown to me at this point in time.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto
correcting grammar (see edit history)

[Dave Mitchell]

It is nice to see Sal's car nearing completion. I met him at Hershey some years ago and he seems like a nice guy.

I saw the sister car to the Hermann 120, a LeBaron 120 but with a raised top, which was sort of a victoria top, open over the driver, covered over the back seat. It had to be a bit tall in order to sit in the back seat though. It was a design that looked better on paper. It was in the Morgan Yost collection, but I don't know where it is now.

[Dave Mitchell]

The Thompson special

[Dave Mitchell]

A couple of Rollstons

[Dave Mitchell]

33 Dietrich coupe, 34 Dietrich runabout

[alsancle]

Here's a better picture of the ex-Ed Hermann LeBaron on a 120 chassis. Also a picture of friend Sal Saiya's 36 Twelve Dietrich convertible victoria. This car is now nearing completion of a full restoration after having sat is Sal's basement for about 20 years while he completed other projects. Its primarily an owner restoration excepting for paint and upholstery and is going to be an exceptional example. Its VN is 927-2XX but the Dietrich plate is 827-2XXX which corresponds to a 1935 thief-proof number, a situation not uncommonly found with the Twelves and commented on previously. That's Sal in the front and me standing in the back seat area. Photographer of the LeBaron unknown to me at this point in time.

I see that you have referenced the "thief proof" number a few times. Could you explain how that worked and how it was "thief proof"? What year did Packard start using that? Does the number imply anything about the car itself, model, body, etc?

thanks, A.J.

[Owen_Dyneto]

A.J., perhaps you should consider membership in PAC, their publications contain a wealth of information. After quite a few years of collecting the body dash or thief-proof numbers and corresponding vehicle numbers (about 2000 data sets thus far), I've published two articles on the subject. If you wish, PM me with your snail mail and I'll send copies. In brief, the numbering system started in 1929 and ended in 1956. The records Packard retained to correlate this # to an actual vehicle are apparently long-gone, but the data was also provided to dealers in the form of a "vehicle unit record" card, and some very small collections of them still reside in private literature collections and I've had access to some of them. There is an example in the first of the 2 articles. My hope, when I started, was that if enough data were collected we'd gain some insight into factory body manufacturing and production sequencing. To a small extent, I think that has been achieved though I'm still collecting data. The data is also rampant with interesting little anomolies.

The number was "thief-proof" because it was not easily altered, though of course it could be done. Packard said the number was to be used when the other numbers were missing, defaced, etc.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto
minor editing (see edit history)

[Johan Boltendal]

Dave, you know I love my Cadillac's, but I have to say, I'm glad you have initiated this thread , it's so nice to see all these pictures of so many fantastic cars, not to forget the added information, submitted by the forum users,

I'm impressed,

I even start thinking about owning one.

Johan

[Owen_Dyneto]

A. J., the attached explanation from the 7th Series owner's manual.

[Dave Mitchell]

Hi Johan,

Glad you like it - we should do one for Cadillac too. It is fun to see what photos people have.

Dave

[Restorer32]

Has anyone ever seen a custom bodied 900 Lite 8? I know of a long dismantled art deco ambulance but that is the only one I've seen.

[Guest Silverghost]

Guys :

I continue to enjoy this thread & the various Packard photo posts.

Keep this great Packard history & photos comming !

When I checked-in today I was stunned to see the fantastic boat-tailed Thompson Special !

As you can see by my signature below I love boat-tailed Classics.

What is the history on this "Special" Packard ?

What coachbuilder built this fantastic car ?

Does it still exist ?

Were any similar boat-tailed Packard cars built in the day ?

Do any original boat-tailed Packards still esist today ?

In the 50s,60s, and 70s there was quite a craze in our hobby, as I remember, building boat-tailed cars of many types using the old hoods of cars as their boat-tailed stern.

Many good original cars were ruined~~~

How many real original boat-tails are really out there ?

I also remember many great towncars of various brands that went un-sold during this time period and were sadly later parted-out or converted to other body styles !

Keep this great thread, going~~~

And your photos comming !

We all should start similar photo threads for the other great Classics and their fantastic custom coachwork !

Edited December 28, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Owen_Dyneto]

Were any similar boat-tailed Packard cars built in the day ?

Do any original boat-tailed Packards still esist today ?

There is a picture of one in post #85 of this thread, and better known are those of the 734 speedster series; one of the 5 body styles offered was a boat tail roadster and of the small number produced, several still exist today. I'm sure West will comment, his Dad has one of them, the ex-George Jepson 734 car.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Thanks!

I'm a member of about 10 clubs, but perhaps I should join one more.

A.J., perhaps you should consider membership in PAC, their publications contain a wealth of information. After quite a few years of collecting the body dash or thief-proof numbers and corresponding vehicle numbers (about 2000 data sets thus far), I've published two articles on the subject. If you wish, PM me with your snail mail and I'll send copies. In brief, the numbering system started in 1929 and ended in 1956. The records Packard retained to correlate this # to an actual vehicle are apparently long-gone, but the data was also provided to dealers in the form of a "vehicle unit record" card, and some very small collections of them still reside in private literature collections and I've had access to some of them. There is an example in the first of the 2 articles. My hope, when I started, was that if enough data were collected we'd gain some insight into factory body manufacturing and production sequencing. To a small extent, I think that has been achieved though I'm still collecting data. The data is also rampant with interesting little anomolies.

The number was "thief-proof" because it was not easily altered, though of course it could be done. Packard said the number was to be used when the other numbers were missing, defaced, etc.

[Dave Mitchell]

Brad, I agree, we should start a thread for other makes with custom bodies. I probably have more Packard photos, but I have a fair number of others. It is just that the CCCA forum is not as active as the Packard one. Let's give it a shot sometime though.

There are a handful of the 734 Speedster boat-tails that are real cars, and many more that are replicas. Beyond that there are 4 or 5 of the 34 LeBaron boat tails, one of which was modified by Bohman & Schwartz for Clark Gable. You can really see the changes they made when you see it next to a series LeBaron, again, there are a number of replicas of those. I think that there is a car like the Thompson Special around, but I am not sure if it is this car. I am not trying to say anything, I just don't know. There must be other boat tails that were built in the period, I hope people will post some photos.

[Dave Mitchell]

Al, I know what you mean, I go through phases joining clubs, and sometimes you are in too many. When I am away, what I really miss in the publications are the well reasearched original history and technical articles as well as period photos. There are some great auto historians out there - guys like Jan Melin for Mercedes Benz.

As for the theft proof numbers, I title my Packards with that number, because it is the hardest number to change on the car. You can swap engines and the data plates are just heald on with 4 screws, and the decals on the 38s just deteriorated anyway. The theft proof numbers don't tell you as much as the data plate in terms of what the car is, but since they are stamped in the firewall in 1 1/2" or so numbers, unless you cut that section out of the firewall and weld another in, (which I have seen done) they are hard to change. The odd thing is that both on the data plates and the theft proof numbers, Packard's number 1 (one) looks a lot like the letter i (I). When I sold a car in California that came up as they think they are "I"s and it took some convincing that they aren't.