Headlight motors................

[Guest HessLakeGuy]

I have learned a lot lately about these headlight motors, but there are things I have never seen discussed. Or, maybe I just missed them in the past.

Who manufactured them?

Whats up with all of those numbers on each one?

I find it interesting that most of the ones for sale are all painted up to look good, and at the same time they mask off those numbers so you can still read them.

I have several low mileage cars. Are the rollers in those headlight motors just as likely to be "powder" as a high mileage vehicle?

What did Buick dealers charge for each replacement motors before they ran out?

AND Barney, did you ever hear back from Neal about your headlight repair job at Ames, IA in the Best Western parking lot?

Happy Holidays from Carolyn and I.

Tom

[NCReatta]

I have several low mileage cars. Are the rollers in those headlight motors just as likely to be "powder" as a high mileage vehicle?

What did Buick dealers charge for each replacement motors before they ran out?

Yes, Sooner of later, the rollers will turn to dust due, not to usage, but to age. The OE Nylon rollers just don't age well.

around '04 or '05, my grandfather bought a new one for about $300 I think.

[Guest Kingsley]

Several of your questions have been answered but, with respect to the numbers on the side, the long number is the part number. Consensus, I believe on the four digit number that it identified a particular person or shift involved in the plant manufacture. Have not seen any info that would indidcate some frame of time manufadture.

Just as info, new motors can be obtained in the range of $140 to $150 from GMPartsdirect.com, and others, but often limited to either driver or passenger and I do not recall which off hand.

I think we would all be shocked at the number of new motors sold by dealers as being the sole reason for headlight failure. Whew! I have never run into a motor that is bad electronically although I believe there was a post on the Forum about some armature wiring some time ago.

Just a general comment, the die cast zinc OE crank arms failed according to degree of usage whereas the torque rollers (roller bushings) failure is purely andage related issue of their material believed to be nylon. Delrin iplastic is the only recommended material for the Torque Rollers today despite the touting of aluminum ones, the use of which might make you cry big time one day. Avoid them.

I will find info on the motor OE retail cost today and post it later.

Just as bit of general info, I have a very good substitute for the OE motor manual control knob. Appearance is not 100% identical but a close second.

I am using a plastic insert, which has the same qualities as the OE knob, to fit on the splines on the head of the armature seat . Seats well and will stand multiple removals and replacement with no compromise. I will be sending some samples for objective comments with respect to the quality and suitability for sale. I feel the knobs will cut the mustard and will be available at a reasonable cost. Not going to be a big mover but it gave me some satisfaction just to complete the project.

I am editing the initial post to add that it is the driver side motor that GM Parts Direct have available at a cost of $138.56 but they hit you with a hefty S&H cost of $32.22 which may vary. They show retail cost as $271.68. They also show that it has a new part number which 19207439 for the driver side with the description being "actuator".

Even were money not tight as it is to day, very reliable rebuilt ones are available from Barney Eaton, Jim Finn and me, as well as others, at prices that make it more desirable to buy rebuilt as opposed to new.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Kingsley
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[padgett]

$117 and free shipping from Headlamp Motor - ACDelco 19207439 And similar Auto Parts which seems to be in Georgia and related to Johnson Industries (Johnson Industries).

I have not used GMPD for a long time mainly because of their non-refundable shipping charges.

[Barney Eaton]

Tom..... my 2 cents worth.

The main number is the part number 16507164RH (right) 16507163LH (left) under that number is a 4 digit number that is stamped... that is a date code. I have not spent time trying to decode them. Here are some I found 2658, 2568, 3568, 1809, 3511.

I feel pretty sure the last digit is the year, 8 = 1988, 9 = 1989, and the 3511 is probably 1991, I am not sure how you woud distinguish a replacement motor that was made in 1999 from one made in 1989. There are some suttle differences, I believe all of the original assemblys were painted black...... at some later date (after the Reatta was out of production) the replacement parts were powder coated black. This is fairly easy to determine on rust belt cars as moisture get under the powder coating and you can peel off the paint in big chunks. Back to date codes, different companies use different methods, one method is to assign each day of the year a number, since there are 365 days per year, that could work for these motors. Another method is to assign one digit to the month and the rest to the day. This is probably not the case with thes motors because I have never seen a 5 digit number (Nov =11, the 20 day of November would = 20 so you would have a number like 20208 and I have not seen that)

The plastic rollers, again without a goverment funded study, I am not sure why they fail when they do. I remember one Reatta owner complaining his car only had 6K miles on it and the rollers failed. I suspect it has something to do with the enviroment the cars are in. Since the sun is not an issue, it could be heat and humidity. Both will dry plastics especially those not engineered to withstand those conditions.

The rollers do not turn to powder.... they crack and once that happens, the torque inside the motor does the rest. The enviroment in there is like a food processor, once they crack, the gear and shaft parts start breaking them into smaller pieces. If you catch one early, you will find chunks, if the owner has put off the repair, you will find powder.

Over the years, talking to Reatta owners and looking at similar motor designs on other GM cars, most people believe the rollers were a designed in weak link. Some of the cars that used the same motor internals has less electronic controls for the motor. The rollers were probably designed like a fuse or clutch, if there was some reason the headlights were stuck, the rollers would compress enough for the part on the shaft to ratchet past the roller. That puts a lot of stress on them and they will eventually crack. BUT rollers are cheap compared to replacing the gear or shaft. That is good news for us today, I am not sure GM cared as they never offered any of the internal part as replacements.

If you check the web, Corvette suppliers offer a bronze gear at about $50, however I have rebuilt lots of motors and have only seen one bad gear (thanks to the rollers) on a Reatta motor.

Last.... I called Neal about two weeks after Ames and he got home OK, I was more worried about the condition of his brakes than if the headlight were working. We did find that his problem was an alignment problem around the headlight door. The lower edge of the headlight assembly was in interferrence with the parking lamp assembly. The headlight would open fine (it rubbed) but when it started to close, the edge caught and the headlight module would see the current spike and stop the motor. I did not have the time or tools to attempt fixing it in the parking lot. I showed him the condition and he was going to have a mechanic look at it when he got home.

[padgett]

One source for just about everything (other than the crank & arm) related to headlight motors is the Fiero Store. They offer a 10% discount to anyone who belongs to a Fiero club.

Their Part # 88221 Price: $35.50 contains rollers, gaskets, and gears for two headlight motors.

In general the 87-88 (same as Reatta except for mounting arms) does not strip gears like the 84-86 did but for the price, might as well do a complete geartrain rebuild.

Edited December 9, 2010 by padgett (see edit history)

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

Rodney Dickman also sells Fiero & Reatta motor parts.

(gears, gaskets and Delrin drive pins)

You can be assured that Rodney sells only high quality stuff

and his prices are good too.

Kit

[Guest steveskyhawk]

A significant portion of this forum is dedicated to Reatta headlight repair and the associated electric motors. After owning 7 Reattas and dismantling countless others I've yet to find a headlight motor that doesn't work. Most Reattas will eventually need headlight actuation repairs but it is never the fault of the motor or an electrical problem. I cannot for the life of me figure out what the issue is. Granted the transmission portion of the motor has issues and parts are readily available to correct the mechanical headlight opening problem. All this talk about armatures and brushes etc. is moot. I like to keep things as simple as possible. If it ain't broke don't fix it. You would be amazed at how many calls I get for headlight motors and not one of them is a result of a failed motor. Without exception the need for a headlight motor was caused by someone reading advice on this forum and taking a working motor apart and not being able to reassemble it. I love to sell the "headlight motor transmission kits" but I get no joy from selling a motor that was not necessary.

To the new folks in the Reatta community: Don't worry about your headlight motors. There will be plenty of mechanical items on your car that need attention if you need something to tinker with. Feel free to contact me directly with questions regarding headlight repairs or any other Reatta related issue.

[wws944]

... The plastic rollers, again without a goverment funded study, I am not sure why they fail when they do. I remember one Reatta owner complaining his car only had 6K miles on it and the rollers failed. I suspect it has something to do with the enviroment the cars are in. Since the sun is not an issue, it could be heat and humidity. Both will dry plastics especially those not engineered to withstand those conditions...

By summer 2009, the rollers on both sides of my low mileage car (9300 miles at the time) had failed. The car was always garage kept and almost never driven at night. Neither heat nor humidity were issues. A mechanic fixed one side for my mother by (unnecessarily) replacing the whole motor/transmission. I fixed the other side after picking the car up a month later using Barneys roller kit.

Obviously whatever plasticizers that they used in the original rollers simply leach out in time, leaving them very brittle. Since the rollers are fairly tightly fitted between the gear and shaft, it is easy to see how once they start to get brittle, they can shatter and fail.

It is interesting to me that here on the forum, Barney/Kingsley/etc rarely report that the plastic gear has broken in the ones they look at. Guess they used a different plastic for it than the rollers.

[Jim]

Years ago we used to start a rebuilt engine, let it warm up and then retorque the head bolts. I don't know if that is still necessary on the newer engines/heads but I believe the same is necessary when replacing a new original style bellcrank.

Install the new bellcrank and then about 3 months later retighten it. The original cranks were diecast metal, soft. After a new one is installed the metal will compress a little making it loose and then it can rotate on the rectangular shaft causing it to wear out. After retightening it one time I think they will last forever.

This would not apply to an aftermarket steel crank or a used crank.

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

"It is interesting to me that here on the forum, Barney/Kingsley/etc rarely report that the plastic gear has broken in the ones they look at. Guess they used a different plastic for it than the rollers"

Actually, the reason the transmission (nylon) gear doesnt get munched is because it dont have to take the brunt of the torque reversing action of the

motors as the headlights go up and down. The drive pins take up this "shocking" action instead. It's kind of like a motorcycle rear wheel. Ever look inside at those rubber donut pieces? They absorb the shock of the m/c transmission, drive chain, sprocket, etc....so that it doesnt jerk the rear wheel

whenever you shift it or give it gas.

I have never seen a cracked nylon gear but I have seen plenty that have stripped and/or missing teeth. And....I believe that when you see that it is because the motor kept running and running.

Kit<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[padgett]

BTW with an 10mm offset box wrench you can tighten the nut in the car.

Have seen yellow and green crumbs on disassembly but never a bad gear in a Reatta. Have seen a corroded/jammed motor.

[Barney Eaton]

I have no idea of the total number of motors I have rebuilt but have been doing them for at least 10 years...... the only bad motors I have seen were a couple that had been in a wreck and the gear box housing was broken, so those don't count. The one bad one looked like it had been under water for some time. The inside of the motor had rusted so badly that the permanent magnets came loose from the can and were stuck to the motor winding segments.

[padgett]

That sounds (loose magnets) like the one I have.

[Guest Kingsley]

Amazing how many "under water" cases come up. I often wonder what material was used to bond the magnets to the upper housing. Not waterproof for sure.

Padgett - think you may have another culprit in your motor. I do not think you could ever hear any rotation of them!

I have found that end play of the armature shaft, extreme end play, will bring on some headaches!.