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Moved to Class 04B


Bill Clark

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mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> Other than the paint, I did everything for my 57 Metropolitan in my driveway. I did my best, had some friends critique it a bit, and I showed it at Hershey in 1997. This was the first time I had shown a car at Hershey and after parking my trailer and unloading, I was able to find my place in the show at class 27B, Production Vehicles, 56 and 57, except Chevy. Those were the days of pavement parking spots with no room to open the doors or walk around the car. Because I was on a bit of a slope, I pulled my parking brake lever back from its usual spot up under the dash, something I almost never do. Being my first show, I did not take much time to look around but rather kept at my car, doing my best to clean it up from the ride on my open trailer and make it presentable. The judges came around and looked at the car, pointed at things and then joked about something and looked at each other’s clipboards. As they were walking away, one of the judges whimsically commented, “The least you could have done was paint your emergency brake button.” The light had changed and the sun now lit up the crusty plastic that was the brake release button, hidden until then up under the dash. I went for a walk, looked at some cars, loaded back onto my trailer and went home to wait for about two weeks for the results to be available. They had given awards on Saturday night, but they could not tell me for two weeks. Finally, I got the word, they gave my car a First Junior. I did not appreciate where I was parked that day.

The next stop was Salisbury where I noticed that people were not bringing show cars on open trailers. As I was unloading, the fellow next to me commented that when I was done I could use the sink in the front of his car trailer to clean up. As I walked around, I noticed that some of these cars were pretty nice. No Senior tab for me at this show.

In 98 I got my Senior tab in Buffalo. My first try at a First Grand National was Montoursville in 2000. It was raining a little and I helped the guy next to me with the plastic drop cloth he was using to keep the rain off the new top of his Chrysler. It’s a bit of a blur to me now, but I think this car took the trophy for best car shown at an AACA meet in 2000. And there it was, right next to me in 27B. No trophy for me. I was starting to understand.

It was about 1000 miles to Moline. Still up on an open trailer, we got lost stopping to see friends on the way out and ended up on a dirt road with rocks and dust. My friend helped clean it up a bit and we went on to a great show. The boat tour was fun and the tractors were green and my second Second Place plaque is still on my trophy wall. It’s been said that once you are beaten by a car in AACA, you usually do not compete with it again. Right, but these guys kept bringing back new cars. And what beauties they were. It was here that I noticed the big car carrier unloading all those trailer queens with Montana plates.

The Grand National Show in New Bern in 2002 was nice. So were the cars. I think it was here that I asked the nice man in the straw hat if he had one of every 56 model ever made. He calmly replied, “No, only the convertibles.” My third Second Place trophy has a picture with it of pink and white 56 Chrysler that was with us that day. What a car! In this one class, 27B, there’s a guy with one of each, someone that brings a best of show car every year, one person bringing a trailer load of perfect cars and the 57 Met done in the shade of my driveway.

After three Second Place trophies, I got a First Grand National in Buffalo in 2004. In 2007 it went to Kalamazoo and brought home a Grand National Senior trophy. With the judging phase of this car over, I enjoy going to the shows, taking my spot in 27B and just admiring the other cars. In class 27D, my 60 Met convertible cruised through the judging and got it’s Grand National Senior in about five shows. Today I got a letter telling me that my Mets have been reclassified as Class 04B, a new class for small cars. There been times I did not think I belonged in class 27B but I enjoyed the competition and never once felt cheated when I did not get the prize I was competing for. I look forward to being able to take a closer look at a different set of cars, but I will be sure to walk over to class 27B to see the prettiest cars shown at an AACA meet.

Bill

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Bill,

I think you have a wonderful post that shows that grit and determination will get you to the destination you seek.

I have been pondering what to do next with my Corvette. She took her First Junior at Greensburg PA in 2005 and her Senior at Hershey in 2009. I'm not sure if she is at the Grand National level...but I'm pretty biased as I know every pore of her body. Rick Race, a noted Corvette Collector made her a Celebrity Pick at Carlisle again this past fall, so maybe I'll give it a shot.

Your post has given me the vibe to look into Grand National competition.

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Bill I know what you mean. Matter of fact I think I have been in the same group with you before. The good part of being in that class is we are always the first ones done shining our cars! Doesnt take long to wipe down a Met or a Beetle.

Will be interesting to see what all is in that class. I was invited to a show this past September that had a class for compacts, in it they also included a few micro cars, made the old beetle look big setting beside some of those.

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Guys, sorry I have not been on the computer in a few days. I will check and see if the list is ready for posting. This is a work in progress and represents the request from numerous members to have something akin to a micro car class. The class will probably evolve as more information comes in but those with the smaller cars did not feel they should be parked next to a '59 Cadillac!

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Guys, sorry I have not been on the computer in a few days. I will check and see if the list is ready for posting. This is a work in process and represents the request from numerous members to have something akin to a micro car class. The class will probably evolve as more information comes in but those with the smaller cars did not feel they should be parked next to a '59 Cadillac!

Steve, Thanks in advance for posting the list. Personally, I think it wouild be more helpful to post the criteria used to define "smaller cars" (ie physical dimensions, weight, wheel base, or whatever the criteria is). I heard from at least one VW Bus owner that his VW Bus was moved to this class. He too (like Stonefish & myself) is wondering exactly criteria was used to create this new class? If VW Busses were also moved to this class, it would appear that this new class needs some additional tweaking/evolution probably sooner rather than later. By just about anyone's definition a 3000-4000 lb VW Bus with it's size dimensions might be quite a stretch to be considered "small" or "smaller". ;) No doubt, the smaller car owners that were concerned about being parked next to a '59 Cadillac may still not be all that happy about being parked next to a '60s or '70s VW Bus or Camper on the show field either.

To be honest, having my VW Rabbit in Class 27-N and being moved to 04-B is no big deal for me personally. I will miss the car owners in 27-N as they are a very nice group of people. No doubt, I will find just as many nice people in class 04-B. It will be interesting to see just how many vehicles show up at AACA Meets in Class 04-B. It should be quite an interesting mix of smaller vehicles that I look forward to seeing.

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I don't own a "small car" so the new class doesn't effect me, but what I don't understand is if a VW Rabbit is considered a small car, how come a Chevette or Omni isn't? I mean early Omnis used VW drivetrains. Seems like they need to tweak the classifications?

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New AACA classes are always interesting. I also do not own a "small" car. Looking over the list, I have to admit, I haven't heard of some of those nameplates.

I do agree with the above comment regarding Rabbits, Chevettes, and "Omni-rizons". All produced in the same era, why not all included, Pintos too? On the hand, a small car from one era, may not be a "small" car in another. As large cars were downsized, contemperary small cars didn't seem so small. The Metropolitan was small next to a Ford of the same era, whereas a Rabbit didn't seem so small next to a Fairmont of the same year.

The VW Transporter does seem too large to be considered "small", especially when compared to it's contemporary American 1st generation compact vans. They were relatively the same size.

A work in progress, it will be interesting to see where this class goes.

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Seems like the definition should be based on engine size and/or vehicle size (length/wheelbase). Trying to list all possible cars gets real hard when you look at all the foreign micro/mini cars available. Lots of US built micro cars also but many of them were in such small quantities they probably qualify for class 35.

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So first what about early Datsuns? All the british small family cars like Riley, Wollesley, Austin's family cars? How could the FIAT 500, the vespa's ugly cousin not make the list. Or the Opel non GTs. As far as VWs and Morris Miinors. A VW truck - obviously in truck class. What about a van -a work van or a station wagon, VW RAbbit, Fox and Vanagon for the water cooled classes. One would think that a camper Van would be a family car and if all VW cars (non-trucks) are in the class then what about a Morris Minor van - primarily commercial use but a little nebulous of a list. And the most important question, isn't the Jordan Playboy specifically listed in class 35 as a prototype along with the Keller. Could you choose between the classes if your vehicle overlaps the two? What class would the Keller - a mid size Woodie end up in??

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Are you saying my car is ugly!!!!?

You must be referring to some other Fiat 500, not this stunning 51 Fiat 500C.

ClownCar3s.jpg

The Vintage Microcar Club Cars List defines a micro car as having 1000cc or less. That category excludes all Mets, but is a huge list. Maybe a better definition for Class 04 would be any production vehicle after a certain year with less than 1000cc plus these listed cars.

Although in another thread I was opposed to a carnival side show of BatMobiles, and Oscar Meyer Weiners, this will be an interesting class. The Fiat pictured here was parked next to a beautiful Mercedes Gull Wing one afternoon and the Gull Wing became invisible. The owner expressed his displeasure of letting cars like that into a show.

Bill Clark

57 Met Class 04

60 Met Class 04

55 Studebaker Speedster Class 27A

51 Fiat 500C Class 26C

It does have the big engine in it, bringing it up to a whopping 16 HP, but there is no High Performance class for a 51.

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I look forward to the new class. I think that the competition will be harder, but change is good.

That said, I do not know if they thought about this when "talking to the members" as you put my DKW universal next to a peel and small is not want comes to mind.

I for one will be happy to be out of the class I was in last year at Hershey. The man next to me said "not sure why they let those foreign jobbies in this class" I guess the cuteness factor can put some people off.

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I have to agree that putting these ''small cars'' in a class by it's self is a great idea..I know my vw looked a little out of place next to a full size american made vehicle @ Hershey,but the only thing I don't understand is how they consider all volkswagens air and H2O small when there are so many variations between both and there are dodge omni's not included in this class..mabee they need to tweek it a little more and call it a sub compact class that could cover those early models starting in the early 70's such as pintos,chevetts, citations,vega's,omni's,honda's,datsun's,saab's,rabbit's,scirroco's...I just think a class that covers years from the 40's to the 80's is to broad,car's of this nature from the 40's to 60's were meant to be cheap transportation and SIMPLE,then by the 70's people started to want more room and creature comforts for longer journeys but staying small..I just think splitting the years in half 40's/60's-70's/90's would make for better viewing and judging and a lot more fare to the member's showing,since these cars are much more simpler from older to newer.:confused:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Work in progress?

How about a premature nightmare.

I've sat back and read the postings for the last month - after receiving the letter in November informing me that my vehicle had been moved to class 4B. Albeit with no explanation in the letter of what defined class 4B (heck I pulled out the judging manual and tried to figure out how a 4 cylinder, 4 cycle powered vehicle was electric powered - since that was what class 4 was/is) - anyway, now that I've digested the "List" I wonder what thought (if any) went into this reclassification?

It's been stated that this was done in response to member's comments/desires. I question which members were polled regarding this change? Those with these "small vehicles" or those with "large vehicles"?

Owning three vehicles that fall under this loose classification - none of which would make sense sitting side by side on a showfield - I have to question the logic used to get us to this point.

Can we at least refine the classification by seating capacity, engine displacement and wheelbase - possibly using the decade of manufacture as a chronological differentiation? Our judging system is better than this - let's demonstrate the logic that 75 years of experience should have taught us.

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"Work in progress" means it was hastely conceived and we're not sure where this is going. Several other new AACA classes have been referred to as a work in progress and are really confusing.

Simple: the size of a vehicle is determined by length and wheelbase. Decide what is small and put it in the rulebook. Also, a decade breakdown would be helpful. Arbitrarily selecting make and model because someone thinks it's a small car is not the way to go.

And why a sub-class of electric vehicles? I thought 04B was a typo, and was meant to 40B.

This class has potential if created properly.

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^^probably....so the class can be wedged into some portion of the show field that no one will visit!

Since cars are not being "judged against each other" as we have all heard...what difference does being in a class with big cars matter? From my experiences, people are typically happy to be around a small car on the show field...it opens up some space to sit around! I love watching class neighbors who are back to back with big cars....they don't have space for a chair!

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You guys are sure grouchy and it is the holidays.:) Do you think the club benefits in some way doing this? It is potentially more expensive, more trouble, etc. We have meets all around the country and people with smaller cars have been stating their opinion year after year. A large committee made the decision to add this class which will be parked in the sequence of the numerical classes. This was based on a LOT of input. AACA has done the same thing over the years in most of the classes and eventually it all gets sorted out.

The new 2011 judging guidelines are at the presses now will be posted online late next month. There are a lot of new ideas the committee is working on and they will unfold in the year to come. Things will be clearer about the improvements the club is trying to bring to the showfield. There is a written survey that has already been sent out and next week a phone survey is being done to get more input.

If the members who spoke out about wanting the class change are wrong then make your feelings known to the committee! The ones that wanted the change sure did!

Happy Holidays everyone.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 4 months later...
I just found out about this.

How do I find out if we've been moved there?

We've *always* enjoyed showing in Class 27A with our '54 VW...

[ATTACH]101145[/ATTACH]

Hello?

Can anyone explain what's going on?

Can we still show with our '54 VW in Class 27A, where we've enjoyed participating since the '80s?

Incidentally, I am a dues-paying AACA member (596580J).

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I just found out about this.

How do I find out if we've been moved there?

We've *always* enjoyed showing in Class 27A with our '54 VW...

[ATTACH]101145[/ATTACH]

Steve,

Class 04-A is "Small Vehicles, Specifically Named through 1941".

Class 04-B is "Small Vehicles, Specifically Named through 1942 thru 1986".

Somewhere I do have the list of "Specifically Named" vehicles.

All VWs (yes even VW Busses, Single & Double Cabs) are in these classes based on the year cutoffs.

At most meets this year, VWs have been well represented in class 04-B.

I think it will be very interesting to see how many total cars are in these new classes at Fall Hershey.

BTW, does your question about this class mean that you & Diane will be at Fall Hershey this year after all?

If you are going to be there, I look forward to seeing you both.

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Steve,

Class 04-A is "Small Vehicles, Specifically Named through 1941".

Class 04-B is "Small Vehicles, Specifically Named through 1942 thru 1986".

Somewhere I do have the list of "Specifically Named" vehicles.

All VWs (yes even VW Busses, Single & Double Cabs) are in these classes based on the year cutoffs.

At most meets this year, VWs have been well represented in class 04-B.

I think it will be very interesting to see how many total cars are in these new classes at Fall Hershey.

BTW, does your question about this class mean that you & Diane will be at Fall Hershey this year after all?

If you are going to be there, I look forward to seeing you both.

Thanks for the info Charlie.

We will only be there for Wednesday and Thursday this year, just to walk around and see what we can while we're there. We'll keep our eyes open in case we may happen to run into you in the flea market fields.

Unforseen situations caused us to change our original plans, and we will not be able to be around for the car show on Saturday.

I wish you and everyone a good time!

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Here's one for you all. Where does a Karmann Ghia get placed? Built by Karmann Coachworks, Designed by the Ghia Studio's, and powered by, and sold by Volkswagen. Neither Karmann nor Ghia are/were car sellers. They designed, and built cars for the sellers.:cool:

:confused:What we have here is a missing link in the new small car class. A Karmann Ghia is only 1/3rd. genuine Volkswagen, and although it will be in the new 4's class it should have a separate name assignment. In other words name the car, and don't lump it in with all the other Volkswagens.

What will happen if a Hebmuller, Rometsch, Dannenhauer & Stauss, or Beutler happen to show up for an AACA National Meet?:eek: These are all coach built Volkswagen powered cars. They should be identified by name in Class 4 A/B.<O:p</O:p

I imagine there are other Class 4 cars that should be identified by name, and I realize that class 4 is "A Work In Progress'. Perhaps AACA National should solicit the membership for assistance with this class. Those of us who own 'small cars' would probably be willing to assist. :)

<O:p</O:p

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Jim, There is a one page list of various "Small Cars" that make of the 04-A and 04-B classes although it has not been widely published. BTW, Yes, Karmann Ghias are in Class 04-B. The meet at Stowe, VT this year had a couple of Ghia in the class. No doubt Hershey will have some also.

To be honest, I believe that the VP of Class Judging & AACA National should have sent out a letter TO ALL car owners impacted by this new class and ASKED THEIR OPINIONS, THOUGHTS & SUGGESTIONS BEFORE MAKING THIS CHANGE. Every, single owner that I have talked with so far RECEIVED NO SUCH COMMUNICATION. Some of the issues with this class (like having VW Busses, Single Cabs and Double Cabs in the "Small Car Class") could have been avoided had the powers that be gone to the trouble of just asking the owners BEFORE they pushed through this class. Hopefully, after Fall Hershey the powers that be at AACA National will see the wisdom is seeking the knowledge from those that own these cars to rectify their mistakes and fix this class.

Speaking of mistakes/work, shouldn't Crosley Trucks be in the "Small Car Class"??? At the Bristol Meet I saw a beautiful Crosley Truck but it was in another class at this meet. Maybe that was just a registration mistake. If it was not, then this group of vehicles should be in the 04A or 04B class by the definition of this class (ie small).

BTW, looks like the 04-A & 04-B classes at Fall Hershey have about 25 to 30 vehicles in them. Not such a "small class" for "small cars".

Also, anyone looking for Classes 04-A & 04-B at Fall Hershey they are located just inside the "Blue Entrance" off of North Hockersville Road next to the DPC Class. I sure hope the class judges and the National Award Judges can find these classes or do not forget we are there. I know of some owners in this class that are less than pleased with this location on the show field.

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