Timken vs National

[padgett]

Rear wheel bearing in the 88 is talking to me. In the past I have always bought Timken's but the discounts for Advance seem awfully inviting considering a $160 net (not surprising, unlike the fronts, the rears have ABS teeth.)

Any comments on Nationals vs Timken ? I am really leery of off brands.

[Guest Kingsley]

I don't think of National as being necessarily off brand or anything of which to be leary. The Timken name is a bit more prominent but have used both in serious Jeep off roading and have not noticed any difference in performance. Only my opinion and it will be interesting to hear from others.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Nationals are made by Federal-Mogul Corporation if that helps:

While more and more vehicles are rolling off the line equipped with hub assemblies, National Wheel End Components continues to be the leader in the wheel end category. We supply premium hub assemblies, seals and antifriction bearings. Keeping pace with the technology of wheel end design, National hub assemblies provide a premium replacement option that matches, if not exceeds, the original equipment.

National hub assemblies feature:

• Patented seal design, available exclusively from National, which ensures superior contamination exclusion and maximum bearing life
  
• Integral Raceway with precisely matched bearing elements specifically designed to handle the load requirements for each application
  
• OE-style ABS sensor and plug for proper connection and stronger ABS signal
  

[Guest reattas.com]

My personal opion is either brand are good brands

[Guest G Froelich]

My front Timken hub was stamped "China." My front National hub was stamped "USA." That may help.

[Ronnie]

Below is what I wrote about Timken bearings back in May of this year:

The following may not be a good comparison of wheel bearings for the Reatta but I thought I would throw it out anyway as food for thought.

The railroad I worked for had a "Test Department" that tested just about everything. Testing bearings was one of their primary functions, specifically the large wheel bearings that carry the weight of the heavy rail cars. They pulled them out randomly and tested them while in service and tested bearings after they had failed.

Timken bearings consistently gave the best service without failures. The Test Dept. attributed it to Timken having their own foundry for producing the cast parts giving them better control over the quality of the parts used to make the bearings. SKF and Brenco were a close second to the Timkens. Koyo bearings were the worst. I think Brenco only produces large bearings for the railroad industry but I could be wrong.

I always use Timken if I can get them but consider SKF in the same class. My local parts store stocks a lot of Fafnir bearings. I have used some of them, when I couldn't get the Timken or SKF, without any problems.

[padgett]

Well Amazon had the lowest price but wanted 1-3 months to ship. Advance turned out to be $130 with tax even with BIG40 discount. HubBearing had it for $117 inc shipping & appears to be coming from a Car Parts Warehouse in Ohio and listed as PartsPlusAutostore.com. With the the transaction given in Mountain Time. Curious.

[Guest G Froelich]

For what it's worth, when I needed to cancel my order with hubbearing.com, because I decided to go with AutoZone for quicker shipping, I called their main number and got right on with an employee who (by the background sounds) was in a U.S. warehouse taking my call. There was no problem canceling: no questions asked, prompt cancellation on my credit card. So, I'll probably go with them when I need the rear hubs. They're some kind of subsidiary marketing web site for Parts Plus. But the time zone for the transaction is strange!

[padgett]

Just a note: Parts Plus is a major wholesaler (has stores in Orlando) with headquarters in Germantown, TN. PartsPlusAutostore is owned by a parts store in Middleburg Heights, OH

This layered approach to buisinesses seems common today but is also relatively easy to trace. HubBearing.com traces back to this:

Di Fiore Jr., Tony cpw_tonyjr@ameritech.net

Car Parts Warehouse

5200 West 130th St

Brook Park, Ohio 44142

United States

(216) 676-9304 Fax -- (216) 676-5516

They apparently have a number of domains registered. Just the new world.

BTW will know when I change it but seems to be a Timken I replaced in 2007 and that box was marked "made in the USA".

[Barney Eaton]

As mentioned above, National brand is owned by Federal-Mogul who also own Champion, Moog, Wagner lighting, Fel-Pro, Carter and other brands.

In todays control of imports, there are many laws governing how the product is identified as to the origin.... most deal with the percent of content.

On a finished unit like a wheel bearing it could be stamped USA, China, Mexico and you could feel confident that is where it is produced, but it gets fuzzy when the inner race is made in Mexico, the outer is made in China and the rollers come from Italy and the unit is assembled

in Cleveland Ohio........ ask yourself, where was the unit really made?

Next week the Timken you buy today and like could be made in Brazil.

[padgett]

I prefer "made in the USA". It is just that simple (but not a requirement and often not possible).

[padgett]

Part of the reason I keep spares where one size fits all or oddball.

Thumping did turn out to be the right rear & easy change. This is one of the few places I do use thread locker but six bolts and spare is in,

Sad part is that the thumper was the new "made in USA" Timken I installed three years and about 3,000 miles ago. Still shiny. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chancet.

Will mention that I have replaced a number of fronts (heavier loads) and was replace once & forget. Did order another spare since unlike fronts, rear is "ABS only". Should be here Monday.

[Guest Mike_s]

Sorry I'm a bit late on this post, but a few years ago I pick up some National hubs which were marked made in Korea.

I've bought some Wheel Bearing's Inc, who according to their web site have been oems for timkin and national. Wheel Bearings Inc... They promote their units are made in the usa, but I get the sense that they might use some non made in usa componets.

[padgett]

Received the new Timken rear hub from hubbearings.com. Box is marked "Made in USA" but could not find anything on the hub. Hubbearings seems to be part of a collection of different domains/companies (PartsPlusAutostore, CarPartsWarehouse, 123Automotive,...).

Only concern is that the new Timken I bought three years ago is the one that failed. Put the spare used original GM (NDH ?) back in and working fine.

[Guest crazytrain2]

I too spent the extra money on Timken front bearing hubs for my 1989 P/A with 163K miles. That was in August of 2008, 15K miles later in July of 2010 one of them was totally shot. I thought surely they would carry lifetime warranty and that they would want it back to test for what caused failure. ie Rockwell hardness test.

I couldn't have been more wrong, 1 yr warranty and sorry about your luck. I replaced it with a National and keeping a close eye on the other.

[sfair]

Sometimes, GM is the route to go, after you swallow the price, on some components...eg.CV joints and axles, wheel bearings, among various other things. Of course, it depends on availability!

[Ronnie]

I didn't think that GM actually made bearings. Don't they have outside vendors that supply the bearings they use?

[sfair]

I didn't think that GM actually made bearings. Don't they have outside vendors that supply the bearings they use?

Of course they are made outside of their corporate walls, but the catch is the component is manufactured "to their specifications". That is the difference!

I have had too much trouble with "some" aftermarket parts in regard to fitment, quality and durability, plus I get annoyed at doing the job over and over again because of early part failure, whether it is a new or remanufactured item.

As a consumer, you have the choice of installing part "A" or part "B", but sometimes the economy of part "B" does not pay in the long run.

Just my opinion...

[89REATTAJIM]

Of course they are made outside of their corporate walls, but the catch is the component is manufactured "to their specifications". That is the difference!

I have had too much trouble with "some" aftermarket parts in regard to fitment, quality and durability, plus I get annoyed at doing the job over and over again because of early part failure, whether it is a new or remanufactured item.

As a consumer, you have the choice of installing part "A" or part "B", but sometimes the economy of part "B" does not pay in the long run.

Just my opinion...

I'm in complete agreement. The tricky part is knowing when part "B" is equal to or better than part "A". It does happen....... Jim

[sfair]

I'm in complete agreement. The tricky part is knowing when part "B" is equal to or better than part "A". It does happen....... Jim

Although, it is rare.

How to get around? This is where you call on experience and experience can be a ruthless teacher.

I once replaced the bearings on a piece of equipment with the EXACT bearing make and part number only to have the equipment not to function correctly. After a call to the bearing manufacturer, I found that a special run of these bearings were made specifically for the equipment maker with a higher tolerance for run-out and smoothness. The replacements were only available through the equipment manufactuer ( read: expensive) and the supplier would not release them to the general public, no matter how much they begged!!!

[padgett]

New Departure-Hyatt was a GM division for many years that made bearings. Apparently was dissolved about 15 years ago

(Google is wonderful if you know what question to ask...)

[sfair]

New Departure-Hyatt was a GM division for many years that made bearings. Apparently was dissolved about 15 years ago

(Google is wonderful if you know what question to ask...)

Funny, because, as I recall, it was NDH bearings I was trying to source!

Trying to save a buck, but it cost in the end.

[Guest Kingsley]

Whiile we are talking about GM brands and suppliers, is anyone aware of where the heck the headlight and related parts brand of "Guide" disappeared to? They were the manufacturer of the headlight conrol module used in conjunction with the Reatta headlights/headlight motor actuation. Checking Wikipedia now and will advise if anything shows up. Note that is "Pedia" not "Leak"!

[padgett]

In its heyday, Anderson's Guide led the nation in lamps - Indiana Economic Digest - Indiana