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Buick built in London UK


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Hi Phil

Pre War Buicks were assembled in London at a plant in The Hyde, North London (just off the Edgware Road)

In 1928 there were no fewer than 7 different body styles on the 115" (Standard) Chassis-all listed in "Standard Catalogue of Buick" by John Gunnel- a really useful book if you don't already have one.

Somewher I have a pic of the firewall plate from one such car-can't find it at the moment!

I don't think the chassis/frame number appears anywhere other than on the plate just behind the right front wheelarch

Jules

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Thanks Jules.

Do you know where I can get a book. Is it reprinted? Is it specific to London built cars?

I would like to see the photo of the firewall plate please to get one reprinted.

I have a later plate which came with the car, but nothing to do with my car I think. I will take a photo of that.

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This the plate that came loose in a box of parts with my car. I presumed it was wrong because none of the numbers made sense to me. What do you think?

It reads

General Motors Ltd

The Hyde London NW9

Body model no. 7580

Body serial No. H253

Would it have a London chassis number plate or a Canadian one like Peter Cornwell's?

I can't get the insert image button to work at the moment.

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Dear Phil:

By the strangest of coincidences, the person you really need to talk to is Dave Haywood. He has more detail knowledge about UK Buicks than anyone I have found in my years of researching Buick frame and engine numbers.

Best of all, he's there in the UK. As I remember, he uses "Oracle" as his call sign here. Try him or send me a PM if you can't connect.

Regards, Dave Corbin

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Humber349,

Do you mind if I ask a question, as I am trying to track coach built Buicks. There are a number of Buick chassis that had special bodies built by Carlton, Mayfair and others that were built in England. Perhaps yours is one, or perhaps it is a Buick built as a Knock Down Kit by GM.

John

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Dear Phil:

I'm glad you got to Dave Hayward. In regard to McLaughlins export records, you're out of luck. I visited GM of Canada in 2006 and discovered that they pitched all the old records about 1971. Anything we know today came from research by folks like Dave Hayward, Terry Dunham, Dave Chambers, and myself.

There were some records accidentally saved here and there by libraries, museums, etc.

One of the main sources for me has been original McLaughlin cars, which kind owners have let me climb on and under. Also, many McLaughlin owners have been kind enough to send me the numbers off of their cars to complile into data base formats and work with. Please send me a PM or post the numbers on your plates so I can help you by sharing what I know and adding that info to my data.

Regards, Dave Corbin

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Hi Phil

You'll find the book on Amazon, but no it is not specific to UK cars, however it gives details of every model year by year including full production numbers for each body style

Pic of firewall tag attached this from a 1931 90LX owned by Peter Cornwell

cheers

Jules

I would suggest looking at the plate under the other the car was built in Canada by McLaughlin / GM of Canada

post-70388-143138357988_thumb.jpg

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This is the information that Bill Kreiner should have submitted.

?????

I don't follow, what is incorrect?

I didn't check them all but certainly the Buick production numbers from 1922 to 1928 inclusive are identical in both tables!!

1922 15690 Buick

1923 17255 Buick

1924 10684 Buick

1925 11464 Buick

1926 12344 Buick

1927 14642 Buick

1928 10858 Buick

I take this figure to be domestic and export for McLaughlin/GM Canada, exports being to other Commonwealth countries.

My understanding is McLaughlin Buicks were imported to Australia as complete units direct by Agents other than General Motors Exports/Holdens who imported stripped chassis from Buick Flint to fit Holden bodies.

Edited by 50jetback (see edit history)
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?????

I don't follow, what is incorrect?

I didn't check them all but certainly the Buick production numbers from 1922 to 1928 inclusive are identical in both tables!!

1922 15690 Buick

1923 17255 Buick

1924 10684 Buick

1925 11464 Buick

1926 12344 Buick

1927 14642 Buick

1928 10858 Buick

I take this figure to be domestic and export for McLaughlin/GM Canada, exports being to other Commonwealth countries.

My understanding is McLaughlin Buicks were imported to Australia as complete units direct by Agents other than General Motors Exports/Holden's who imported stripped chassis from Buick Flint to fit Holden bodies.

Holden in Australia built as did McLaughlin in Canada on Chassis from Flint until Fisher body started body building as in Buick Cadillac and RR. Kreiner has taken the GM Canada build and made it US build too. The site is wrong on many things, one GM was a holding company started by Durant who started with Buick Motor company and turned to McLaughlin in Canada to build his cars with Buick Motors and Chassis. Durant was fired from GM in 1910 started Chevrolet and went back to McLaughlin to build Chevrolet in 1915. Durant traded Chevrolet stocks 5 to one GM and bought out GM ,Chevrolet owned GM . Durant bought out McLaughlin in 1918 after Making GM a Car Company in 1918 but McLaughlin became GM of Canada in 1908. History in the Car building world needs to be revamped to show how Cadillac to was built in Canada by McLaughlin in 1923 ,Kreiner needs to educate himself before selling the wrong information. I started working in GM of Canada in 1961 and we were still building cars for England shipping CKD.
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Phil.Here they are the Serial no. and Engine no. and where they located on the cars.If you want I will send them to you if you send me your email address.

Leif in Sweden.

Well done Leif - you keep coming up with these little " gems " of information.

That's the first list I have seen which tells the location of serial numbers on chassis and motor for so many years.

I'm going to print it and keep it handy - very useful!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Holden in Australia built as did McLaughlin in Canada on Chassis from Flint until Fisher body started body building as in Buick Cadillac and RR. Kreiner has taken the GM Canada build and made it US build too. The site is wrong on many things, one GM was a holding company started by Durant who started with Buick Motor company and turned to McLaughlin in Canada to build his cars with Buick Motors and Chassis. Durant was fired from GM in 1910 started Chevrolet and went back to McLaughlin to build Chevrolet in 1915. Durant traded Chevrolet stocks 5 to one GM and bought out GM ,Chevrolet owned GM . Durant bought out McLaughlin in 1918 after Making GM a Car Company in 1918 but McLaughlin became GM of Canada in 1908. History in the Car building world needs to be revamped to show how Cadillac to was built in Canada by McLaughlin in 1923 ,Kreiner needs to educate himself before selling the wrong information. I started working in GM of Canada in 1961 and we were still building cars for England shipping CKD.

Before throwing harsh words around, I suggest you go to the source first. If you are referring to the Unique site, I did submit that very Canadian sales sheet you posted to the Webmaster, per his request, and I submitted it as a Canadian sales sheet, not as a combined one. If he made the error of regarding it as a U.S. or combined one, then I will alert him to it. I am very familiar with production numbers, and where they belong. I have an Australian Holden production ledger as well. I did not write ANY of the historical comments on that site. I merely provided production data, labeled accurately. If you have an issue with information, please voice your opinion in an adult manner. Do not engage in ad hominem attacks. It reflects solely upon you.

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  • 2 months later...
Before throwing harsh words around, I suggest you go to the source first. If you are referring to the Unique site, I did submit that very Canadian sales sheet you posted to the Webmaster, per his request, and I submitted it as a Canadian sales sheet, not as a combined one. If he made the error of regarding it as a U.S. or combined one, then I will alert him to it. I am very familiar with production numbers, and where they belong. I have an Australian Holden production ledger as well. I did not write ANY of the historical comments on that site. I merely provided production data, labeled accurately. If you have an issue with information, please voice your opinion in an adult manner. Do not engage in ad hominem attacks. It reflects solely upon you.

Great amount of information, hhtp:GENERAL MOTORS WORLDWIDE INFORMATION FILES INDEX would suggest it might help.

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There seems to be quite a lot of confusion over the various export model Buicks. I presume the Australian cars that were bodied by Holden had chassis sourced from Flint (but don't know for sure). New Zealand cars pre about 1925 seem to have been sourced from both Canada and the US by individual dealers until GM export was set up in the mid 1920s. Here in NZ there are some McLaughlins from around 1923-24 and there are several locally bodied cars - most I have seen have been roadsters from around 1916-20. Interestingly the local body cars I have seen retain right hand control of the gearbox (RHD of course) but central control gearboxes were around from 1916. I have owned parts from both. From about 1926 all NZ cars were sourced from Flint and most were locally assembled from CKD packs (sedans only) but some low volume models (usually coupes and bigger series models) were imported built-up (SUP). There are a few 1930s McLaughlin Buicks here but I have always assumed they were privately imported later. I know of one 1934 Model 57 McLaughlin sedan (which has now moved to Australia) which was purchased new in London by a prominent local business family who used it for a tour of Europe before shipping it out of Algeciras, Spain to NZ some months later. This car had had its McLaughlin id plate replaced with one by Lendrum and Hartmans. The car is distinctive as it is on wire wheels - unusual for a series 50. I have been told that all 1934-5 McLaughlins sold in UK had wires but can't confirm it.

I presume that not all export cars built by McLaughlins were RHD, I think they must have exported some to LHD countries as well?? Or maybe all export LHD cars came from Flint?

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There seems to be quite a lot of confusion over the various export model Buicks. I presume the Australian cars that were bodied by Holden had chassis sourced from Flint (but don't know for sure). New Zealand cars pre about 1925 seem to have been sourced from both Canada and the US by individual dealers until GM export was set up in the mid 1920s. Here in NZ there are some McLaughlins from around 1923-24 and there are several locally bodied cars - most I have seen have been roadsters from around 1916-20. Interestingly the local body cars I have seen retain right hand control of the gearbox (RHD of course) but central control gearboxes were around from 1916. I have owned parts from both. From about 1926 all NZ cars were sourced from Flint and most were locally assembled from CKD packs (sedans only) but some low volume models (usually coupes and bigger series models) were imported built-up (SUP). There are a few 1930s McLaughlin Buicks here but I have always assumed they were privately imported later. I know of one 1934 Model 57 McLaughlin sedan (which has now moved to Australia) which was purchased new in London by a prominent local business family who used it for a tour of Europe before shipping it out of Algeciras, Spain to NZ some months later. This car had had its McLaughlin id plate replaced with one by Lendrum and Hartmans. The car is distinctive as it is on wire wheels - unusual for a series 50. I have been told that all 1934-5 McLaughlins sold in UK had wires but can't confirm it.

I presume that not all export cars built by McLaughlins were RHD, I think they must have exported some to LHD countries as well?? Or maybe all export LHD cars came from Flint?

I know we were shipping out of Oshawa into the 60s LHD /CKD but to understand how the world was able to get most of GM built cars that were as I read it dumped because of the Depression in the USA. go to

http://www.gmhistorian.btinternet.co.uk I find most is information on the building of General motors through out the world. I feel this is vital information to all but it shows how the world started it's Anti- American feelings. in this part of history and why.( Lendrum and Hartmand were not builders and did remove McLaughlin plates on all Mclaughlin cars sold there.) other than the ones built for Royalty.

WARNING do not go to the site if you are from the USA it will upset many who have no Idea about GM.

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Hi! I have compiled a list of all the known McL-Buicks and Buicks from 1907 to 1950 imported into the UK..et al. I have a database of Buicks imported and welcome more for my collection. My draft book on the history of GM in the British Isles includes the history of Buick in the UK ..so just e mail me for info.

Lendrum & Hartman imported 'green' cars ex-Oshawa in 1932 for assembly in their Buick Car Works in Willesden, London, that was originally the Bedford Motors assembly plant. For 1933 they imported cars that they 'enhanced' with dual sidemounts, sunroofs, etc. Prior to 1932 it was GM Limited in Hendon that brought in McL-Buicks and added bodies to chassis or passed them to coachbuilders as required.

Edited by Oracle (see edit history)
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Hi! I have compiled a list of all the known McL-Buicks and Buicks from 1907 to 1950 imported into the UK..et al. I have a database of Buicks imported and welcome more for my collection. My draft book on the history of GM in the British Isles includes the history of Buick in the UK ..so just e mail me for info.

Lendrum & Hartman imported 'green' cars ex-Oshawa in 1932 for assembly in their Buick Car Works in Willesden, London, that was originally the Bedford Motos assembly plant. For 1933 they imported cars that they 'enhanced' with dual sidemounts, sunroofs, etc. Prior to 1932 it was GM Limited in Hendon that brought in McL-Buicks and added bodies to chassis or passed them to coachbuilders as required.

Did Lendrum & Hartman strip all the plates off of the McLaughlin cars?

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BUICK MODELS OFFERED FOR DALE IN UK:

1928 MODEL 20-60 H.P. 23.4 H.P. LIGHT CHASSIS [ SERIES 115 STANDARD SIX] 28-27 CHASSIS

MODEL 23.4 H.P. 20-60 H.P. LIGHT CHASSIS [sERIES 115 STANDARD SIX] 28-20 “DOMINION” 2-DOOR 5-SEAT SALOON

MODEL 20-60 H.P. 23.4 H.P. LIGHT CHASSIS [ SERIES 115 STANDARD SIX] 28-27 WITH SPECIAL SINGLE COUPE CABRIOLET BODY BY PAGE & HUNT LIMITED, FARNHAM

MODEL 20-60 H.P. 23.4 H.P. LIGHT CHASSIS [sERIES 115 STANDARD SIX] 28-26S “COUNTRY CLUB ROADSTER”

MODEL 20-60 H.P. 23.4 H.P. LIGHT CHASSIS [sERIES 115 STANDARD SIX] 28-25 “MAJESTIC TOURING”

MODEL 20-60 H.P. 23.4 H.P. LIGHT CHASSIS [sERIES 115 STANDARD SIX] 28-27 “EMPIRE 4-DOOR SALOON”

MODEL 20-60 H.P. 23.4 H.P. LIGHT CHASSIS [sERIES 115 STANDARD SIX] 28-27 4-SEAT HACKNEY [TAXI]

MODEL 20-60 H.P. 23.4 H.P. LIGHT CHASSIS [sERIES 115 STANDARD SIX] 28-27 LIMOUSINE

MODEL 20-60 H.P. 23.4 H.P. LIGHT CHASSIS [ SERIES 115 STANDARD SIX] 28-27 WITH SPECIAL HARRINGTON VITESSE DROP-HEAD 4-SEATER FABRIC COUPE BY THOS. HARRINGTON LIMITED

SERIALS RAN: #135001 TO #147935

ENGINE SERIALS: #1960775 TO #2212732

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 120 MASTER SIX] 28-48 2-SEATER 2-DOOR “PICCADILLY” 2-SEAT SPORTING SALOON BY GROSE OF NORTHAMPTON

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 120 MASTER SIX] 28-47 “REGENT TOURER”

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 120 MASTER SIX] 28-47 4-DOOR “AMBASSADOR SALOON”

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 120 MASTER SIX] 28-47 7-SEAT TOURING WITH DIVISION

SERIALS RAN: #138001 TO #143290

ENGINE SERIALS: #1990635 TO #2221857

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50 128”-WHEELBASE CHASSIS

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-49 128”-WHEELBASE “MONARCH 7-SEATER TOURER”

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50L 7-SEAT “PULLMAN LIMOUSINE”

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50 128”-WHEELBASE WITH ENCLOSED DRIVE LIMOUSINE BODY BY VICTOR BROOM LIMITED, LONDON

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50 ¾ COUPE CABRIOLET BY PAGE & HUNT LIMITED, FARNHAM, SURREY

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50 WITH GROSE 6/7 SEATER ENCLOSED DRIVE LIMOUSINE BODY BY GROSE LIMIED, NORTHAMPTON

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50 WITH COUPE CABRIOLET DE VILLE BY FOUNTAIN’S AUTO-CARRIAGE WORKS LIMITED. HORSHAM

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50 WITH SALOON LIMOUSINE BODY BY PROGRESSIVE COACH & MOTOR BODY COMPANY

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50 7-SEATER “GREAT WESTERN” ¾ LAUNDELLETE BODY BY JOHN HARRIS (READING) LIMITED

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50 7-SEATER ENCLOSED DRIVE SALOON LIMOUSINE BODY BY CARROSSERIE VAN DEN PLAS S.A., BRUSSELS

MODEL 25-75 H.P. 29.4 H.P. MASTER CHASSIS [sERIES 128 MASTER SIX] 28-50 7-SEATER ENCLOSED DRIVE DE LUXE SALOON LAUNDELETTE BODY BY CARROSSERIE VAN DEN PLAS S.A., BRUSSELS

SERIALS RAN: #138001 TO #143290

ENGINE SERIALS: #1990635 TO #2221857

1928 PRODUCTION STARTED FOR ALL SERIES IN JULY 1927

Edited by Oracle (see edit history)
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Rootes Limited had a long connection with General Motors: their Maidstone and Dorking branches were agents for Delco-Remy & Hyatt and AC.

Rootes Distibutors Limited were by 1923 (according to an advert) Distributors and Service Engineers for Oakland and Chevrolet for London and South Eastern Counties and Buick Kent and Sussex Distributors [from Maidstone and Dorking] and London and East Surrey Dealers., based at 7 8 & 9 Long Acre, London W.C.2. However, they had apparently been so by 1921.

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ROOTES

The Rootes Group was acquired by Chrysler in 1965, their cars and commercials having been sold through the Chrysler sales organisation in the U.S. and Canada. However, the Rootes Brothers themselves had a considerable degree of financial interest in G.M. importation from the early Twenties onwards, and during WW11 were a major sub-contractor to General Motors Limited.

Rootes Distributors Limited, a subsidiary of Rootes Limited, was a major distributor for Chevrolet and Oakland, and Buick also operated a substantial Service facility for G.M. vehicles at Lodge Place, Regent’s Park, London N.W.8 by the Autumn of 1923, which was previously the F.S. Bennett Limited Cadillac “factory”. [ROOTES DISTRIBUTORS LIMITED, Company Number 193018 was renamed subsequently Transport Acceptances Limited and then finally Mercantile Credit (Acceptances) Limited and was dissolved 31 December 1980; ROOTES LIMITED, Company Number 148545 was incorporated 26 September 1917, being renamed in due course Rootes Securities Limited, and then finally Peugeot Motors PLC, and is still current at the time of writing]. Rootes Limited had G.M. car sales premises at 6 and 8 Long Acre from at least 1921 [advertising in the 1921 Motor Show Catalaogue, and even advertised in the 1923 Motor Show Catalogue with a photograph of the outside of their Lodge Place facilty! Rootes Limited were advertised by General Motors Limited in the summer of 1923 as Principal Distributors for Chevrolet at 8 and 9 Long Acre, London W.C.2 and also at Len Engineering Works, Maidstone, Kent, which was also a Delco-Remy & Hyatt Limited Official Service Agent. The two The Autocar Show issues for Novemer 9, 1923 and October 17, 1924 list F.S. Bennett Ltd new car advertisements for both years for both Cadillac and Durant. The G.M. Ltd ad for October 17 1924 mentions displays at Lendrum & Hartman for Buick, and Rootes for Chev, Oldsmobile, & Oakland.

By 1925, Rootes Limited was the largest motor distributor in Britain! This was also the address of F.S. BENNETT LIMITED’S Service Facility and the two companies ran in tandem with each other including service and sales premises at 1 Lords Court, St. John’s Wood Road, London N.W.8 from at least 1937 to 1939 [Rootes Limited advertised their showrooms were able to display all of the Rootes Group marques, just opposite Lord’s cricket ground]. F.S. Bennett Limited were in Lodge Place, the Rates Books for 1922-23 stating that the postal address was 4A, “Workshop and Motor Car Store”. By 1926, it had become ROOTES LIMITED, Motor Car Dealers.

VIGO MOTORS LIMITED, Company Number 2014199, incorporated 1924-25, took over immediately on incorporation the Chevrolet distributorship held by Rootes Limited, at 8/9 Long Acre. They were north of London Distributors: in 1926 they were offering their own bus bodies, on the Chevrolet 1-Ton chassis.

Which brings me on to answer the question! They were either US Buicks, to 1922 or McL-Buicks from thence, and assembled by General Motors Limited in Colindale Road, Hendon, London NW9 to 1923 and then their ex-WW1 aircraft factory located in The Hyde, Edgware Road, Hendon, from 1923.

When I say 'assembled' a 1924 photo I have shows that they were imported as bare chassis with a cowl and either had Hendon-builot bodies added or were sent off to coachbuilders for bespoke bodywork and return. Up to 1925 US Buick commercial chassis were imported and a 3/4 ton van was a standard offering. This compared with the 1/2 ton Chevrolet...more engine meant more capacity!

How's that?

Edited by Oracle (see edit history)
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Hi Oracle

Thanks for the information. I've got a 1924 McLaughlin Buick Roadster 54 Series. By the sound of it, you are saying that it came over in parts and was assembled in the UK. Do you know if there is any more 54 or 55 Series in the UK and I'm also looking for a dealers dash plate, ROOTS LTD, MAIDSTONE, LONDON AND DORKING and would be grateful if you have any information on where I might be able to find one.

many thanks

Colin

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