3 P's of Fine motoring

[jeff_a]

I came across an interesting quote yesterday about Peerless. Someone who sold Lincolns in the 1920's said he couldn't sell them because the body design was too conservative in comparison to that of The Three P's (Packard, Peerless & Pierce-Arrow).

Edited December 2, 2010 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Body design of the first Lincolns was indeed conservative but so was everyone else's luxury car that year.

Look at pictures of expensive cars from the period 1915 to the early 20s. They are very boxy, they are painted black or a dark color and almost completely stripped of brightwork. I have studied pics of Packards from this period and the only bright trim I can find is the door handles and hub caps. Everything else is painted including the radiator and bumpers.

The standard colors used at this time were black, navy blue, very dark green, and crimson lake or maroon.

Compare this to cars of 1913 and earlier with their white tires, shiny brass and bright colors. You know the eye popping orange paint on Case tractors? That is Poppy Orange, the standard color used on Case cars before WW1.

Lincoln bodies were made by the best custom body makers who put the same bodies on other luxury cars. It happens that boxy formal bodies were the style at that time. Of course if any customer wanted something flashier the body makers were happy to oblige. In those days most expensive cars came with bodies made by outside suppliers.

I have heard the argument before, that Lincoln's stodgy bodies killed their sales but I don't think there is anything to it. Their bodies were the same as everybody else's.

Launching an expensive new car at the start of a severe recession, and not having enough capital were what got them in trouble.

As far as this "3 P's " business goes, I do not recall ever seeing that before about 1980 and then it was from an English old car expert. I seriously doubt that Peerless was ever mentioned with Packard and Pierce Arrow in this way when they were in production. If anyone can show any reference to the "3 P's" by an American before 1930 I would be surprised. In fact I would be shocked.

This is not to take anything away from Peerless quality. Just that they were never that popular. If anyone was thinking of the leading luxury cars the list would have included Pierce Arrow and Packard in the lead, then Cadillac Lincoln and Chrysler Imperial.

Peerless would have been classed with the less popular high grade cars like Stutz, Locomobile, Marmon or Stearns.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

This a little later but Lincoln's conservative record continued though into the late 20s - early 30s. I was visiting a friend who has a '30 (I believe) Cadillac Club Sedan and a Lincoln Victoria of the same vintage. We compared the two on just this subject. The Cadillac appears more upscale - much fancier interior and dash, more brightwork, etc. while the Lincoln dash looks simple - much like a Model A. I understand the Lincoln is a great runner, though.

[Guest Silverghost]

There is an old often told story that Henry Ford actually bought the financially unstable and then-ailing Lincoln Motorcar Co to give his son Edsel to run & have somthing for Edsel to do.

It seems Edsel was trying to get old Henry, his father, to update his old long-in-the-tooth Ford . Edsel wanted a more up-scale Ford car with a more modern & powerful engine deign.

Henry wanted Edsel to leave his Ford's as-is~~~

He wanted no changes~

He also wanted Edsel occupied and off his back~

Thus Henry bought Lincoln~~

After Ford bought Lincoln the car designs became more impressive and quite flashy~~~

The other high-end custom body auto builders soon found it hard to compete with Ford's new Lincoln and it's very high quality at a much lower price than they could afford to build their cars for~~~

A similar story was going on at GM with the Cadillac ~~~

Edited December 6, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Richard Lichtfel]

It would be interesting to find out when and who first used the Three P's slogan for Peerless, Pierce-Arrow & Packard. (Not necesarily in that order but I'm a Peerless person). I have seen it used on some articles written in the 30's though. By 1910 the three P's were very similar in price and quality, Peerless in1905 had a model that sold for $11,000, other Peerless models sold between 4 and $6,000. In 1911 Peerless was taken over by G.E. and their focus was more on trucks and the car production suffered. In 1914 Peerless only produced 275 cars and over 12,000 trucks. All the 4 cylinder engines went into the trucks and the old design T head six was used in the cars. 1915 was another bad year for Peerless cars, 1916 they tried to come back with the V-8 engine and more streamlined bodies but they had lost much of the market by then and they only had three models to choose from. By 1920 Peerless had developed the V-8 to where you could put 200,000 miles on it before any major repairs, so they decided not to change the body styles so your Peerless will last many years and not go out of style. This was a bad policy for the roaring 20's. In the late 20's Peerless tried to make a come back with some beautifully styed cars but it was too late.

I think if we are to compare the great 3-P's it would have to be between 1903 and 1914. I don't think they were on a equal after that.

RHL

[jeff_a]

Rusty,

Thanks for your interest in the issue of Lincoln's conservative body design and whether it could be considered even more so than "The Three P's". I thought that was a little odd, but as I said, it is a quote, not my own idea. Personally, I like the original Leland-Built Lincolns. My family had one from 1921 to the 1970's.

Milton Budlong [of York Motors] told Raymond Dietrich [of Le Baron Carrossiers, Inc.]: "I can't sell the Model L's. They are too conservative up against the three P's (Packard, Peerless, and Pierce-Arrow) and the imports." That was in the chapter "Lincoln Coachbuilders" in Marvin Arnold's book LINCOLN AND CONTINENTAL and is readable on www.storydomain.com.

I have also found the term The Three P's used on a magazine ad promoting Peerless' new line of straight-8 motorcars in 1930...and in a 1930 edition of L'INDUSTRIE AUTOMOBILE et AERONAUTIQUE promoting the same line of cars, but from the perspective of someone in France.

You would be correct in pointing out that the company's official slogan included: "All That The Name Implies" and not "One of the 3 P's of Fine Motordom", but not that "The Three P's" term was not used before the 1980's. If I could get a workable time machine going, I could go down to Automobile Row in New York or Chicago and ask people what the Three P's term meant with regard to cars. In my grandfather's youth, when both Pierce and Peerless went from De Dion Bouton-licensed 1-cylinder quadricycles to 824.8 cu. in. 6-cylinder-powered autos costing over $6,000, I think they would have known.

Edited December 7, 2010 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[keiser31]

I recall hearing the "3 P's" line way before the '80s. When I was 16 (1968), I was talking to a gent by the name of Ray Witt in Romulus, Michigan about the higher class cars. He showed me an article from an early '60s magazine (wish I could recall what magazine it was) that mentioned the "3 P's" of motoring. It in fact mentioned Packard, Pierce Arrow and Peerless.

[Richard Lichtfel]

I think that publication was the first Automobile Quarterly. Not the one we know of today but a paper publication. I have a copy of it.

[Seldenguy]

Don Meyer in N.J. frequently made reference to the 4 P's Packard, Peerless,Pierce-Arrow,and Puick! What a clip he is. --Bob

[Richard Lichtfel]

What cars do you know of that start with P ??????

[keiser31]

What cars do you know of that start with P ??????

Too many to list here.