Non-running cars, clarification?

[Guest Silverghost]

I agree with what you have just stated above !

Trailers are often necessary .

There are some folks however who NEVER drive their old cars.

The only driving done is from the un-loading lot to the show field~~~

They are driven just to meet AACA show rules that a car must actually be driven onto the show field.

Severaly years ago we saw a brass-era car that broke-down just ouside the Hershey show field area. The owner was trying in vain to have the now non-running auto pushed onto the show field for judging & display. The show officials kept the car just outside the showfield area ! When we arrived at 9:00 AM the car was outside the show area~~~

At 5:00 PM it was still sitting in that very spot!

Years ago my Father & I actually drove all his brass-era cars to all local PA . shows within 75 miles ! Thast was in the 50s-60s-70s !

There was much less traffic in those days on weekends; and fewer folks with road-rage from driving behnd a very slow 25 MPH auto !

Sadly today this can no longer be done in many cases.

We have often been insulted lately by many impatient drivers on the road today driving behind our brass-era cars driving slowly.

The Trailer Queens & Museum Cars I speak of are NEVER EVER driven outside of the few hundred yards actually driven on the actual show field itself !

In fact they are almost treated like the first thread poster's mustang !

They are now basically statitc museum display objects D'Art~~~

My intent of using the term "Trailer Queen" was never to offend anyone !

Edited December 31, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[junkyardjeff]

I drove my 55 sunliner to Daytona Beach and back over thanksgiving,it was about 950 miles each way plus I put a few hundred miles on it while I was down there. Now would I drive my 37 Chevy p/u that far,no way due to the small cab but I would trust it mechanically going that far. You wont catch any 1000 point show cars in my garage because I would have no desire to keep them that way if I were to ever get one,if I cant drive them without worrying I dont want them.

[ex98thdrill]

My intent of using the term "Trailer Queen" was never to offend anyone !

No I'm not offended, but rather stating why we use trailers. If your user name has any reference to what you may own, I'm sure you wouldn't dare park a 30's vintage silverghost in a hotel parking lot overnight while you're out of town at a meet. If you did, I wouldn't find fault, but if I had one, there's no way I'd leave a Silverghost sitting outside unattended. The cost of locating and replacing a missing radiator cap alone scares me, let alone the rest of the car.:eek::eek:

Like anything else, whether you have a Yugo, Pacer, Pinto, or a Trailer Queen, I've found that the most critical or the most vocal of those issues are the ones who have nothing, or what they do have would have trouble making a First Junior.

Regardless of the make or country of origin of the car, where these people live, and whether or not it's a Senior AGNM, HPOF, DPC or only driven on tours, I respect what other people have, what they don't have, where they're from and I appreciate their interest in the club. What they have or don't have, or how they get it there is immaterial.

In 2005 there was a member that showed up at the AGNM in Northglenn with 5 tractor trailer loads of cars, and paid staff prepping those cars before the meet. Was I mad at him?? Hell no!! Do I despise him?? Not at all. But I do know that if he's got a vehicle in the same class as one of ours that I want to beat him, and if I tie him, I still have the pleasure of being able to compete with someone with a lot of cash by a father and son team who restore their own stuff out in their barn by the house on a shoe string budget. For the NASCAR fans, us tying guys like that would be like Dave Marcis beating Jimmie Johnson out of a championship. When today's world is mostly a David & Goliath world, I find it refreshing that in AACA that you can succeed if you're willing to insert some work hard and determination.

To the original thread in this post, the man belongs to a club where reproduction parts are not allowed on his vehicle, he's trying to preserve his vehicle, and he has an interest in bringing that vehicle to AACA.

Attacking his beliefs or his car is not appropriate, and that doesn't keep a good image of AACA. Perhaps rather than questioning this man's planet of origin, let's try to help him solve the problem with preserving his vehicle, while also finding a compromise for him to participate in AACA.

Back to an earlier post, do we use trailers?? Yes we do!! But we started out driving our cars, then we bought a used race car trailer that we pulled with a Ford Ranger, and over the last 20 years we've worked our way up to larger trucks, and larger trailers. I admire the people who drive their cars to the meets, but knowing what it takes to display cars competitively, I understand why people trailer their vehicles.

Back in 2008 we drove our fire truck 75 miles to Syracuse and got 8 miles per gallon. In 2009 we loaded that same truck up on the trailer and still got 8 miles per gallon hauling that truck on a borrowed trailer with our pickup. There's something to be said about power steering, power brakes, automatic transmission, modern stereo, cloth seats and air conditioning when you're hauling something that large 1,100 miles to Kansas.

Let's promote the club rather than try to chase someone away.....

Edited December 31, 2010 by ex98thdrill (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Ironically, of all the customers we've had over 32 years the one who drives his car the most miles and the greatest distance from home drives a 1921 Ghost. I'm sure SilverGhost knows who I am referring to.

[ex98thdrill]

Ironically, of all the customers we've had over 32 years the one who drives his car the most miles and the greatest distance from home drives a 1921 Ghost. I'm sure SilverGhost knows who I am referring to.

WOW!!

With the money it takes to restore that '21 Rolls Royce, I'd be afraid to drive it. But then again, I know that a '21 Rolls is beyond my financial means. We've paid more money in pickups to pull our car trailer than we've ever invested in any restoration. But if we didn't turn our own wrenches, we couldn't afford to have old cars.

Back when I used to work the crash truck at Watkins Glen, one day there was a guy that completely totalled a brand new Ferrari. The man had no remorse at all, but after it was all done, he paid the guy who runs the tow truck at the race track to take him and his smashed Ferrari all the way back to his home in Long Island (about 300+ miles). It turns out they get down to Long Island, the guy directs him to this large warehouse, he backs the wrecker in (actually a flatbed by now) and he's got another 20+ Ferraris sitting in this warehouse.

As in the case of the man with the Ferrari and your friends with the '21 Rolls, I'd be afraid to do what they do with them based on what it would cost to get those cars and how long it would take me to get the money to be able to afford them.

[Airy Cat]

If I can't drive 'em, I don't want 'em.

[Guest Silverghost]

Restorer32's friend Dick P. not only drives his 1921 Silver Ghost everywhere here in the USA~~~

He and his Silver Ghost Assn. buddys often take these cars on tours all over the world.

Europe, Australia, China, etc.

They are often loaded into ships or containers for the overseas trips.

These folks log literally tens of thousands of miles each year !

I know one Silver Ghost that has over 750,000 miles on it's clock . The engine & drive train running gear are 100% original to the car !

It's owner now tells me that the engine is now just "broken-in" !

I also knew Allan Swift of Springfield Mass. who was 102 years young when he passeed-away . He got his 1928 USA -built Springfield Rolls~Royce Phantom I Picadilly Roadster NEW as a graduation present from his father and it was his daily driver all of Allen's life since 1928~~~Allen drove it rain ,snow, or shine for 82 years !

Everyone in his town knew Allen and his R~R Roadster !

He also took it to shows later in his long life ! That's where I met him about 15 years ago.

He is considered to be the oldest original owner & driver of a R~R car bought & owned since new.

Allen donated it to the Springfield Mass. museum in his estate trust, along wih a Million $$$ to help build the museum and mantain the car in the museum ; where sadly it just sits inside most of the time now!

Allen loved to drive & also show his Phantom I

It was never restored and looked almost new.

The driver's side running board rubber was worn through it's burlap backing down to the wood in a 6" circle where he stepped to get in the car. That was the only wear you could actually see on this Classic !

Here is a link to Allen's story~~~

http:www.bangshift.com/blog/Fact-or-Fiction-The-Man-who-Owned-and-Drove-His-Rolls-For-82-Years.html

Allen was a great fellow indeed !

Like Allen I aso drive all my cars~~~

They will be around much longer than Allen or myself !

I wish to enjoy driving them while I am sill around !

Edited December 31, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[kevin1221]

Just to clarify the original post, cars entered into this particular class (Thoroughbred) may be started and driven onto the show field, but some owners opt not to do this. Its strictly the owners choice.

When I first started showing my car in MCA competition (concours class) in the late 90s, I was surprised to see that some cars were pushed out of their trailers and into the show space. These were primarily Shelbys and Boss 429 cars. I finally inquired and was told the owners did not want to harm any part of the restoration.

The fact that the MCA now has the Thoroughbred Class (that allows no reprodution parts), I expect this trend to continue in this club, especially amoung the rarer models.

As previously stated, I feel there is enough room in this hobby for all to participate. Some folks like tours, some shows, some hate judged events, some just like the friendships built in the hobby. Personally, I have driven my car almost 20,000 miles since restoration, but I do not have a "high dollar" car. But, in that time I have been able to earn multiple MCA Gold Awards as well as a a Senior Grand National from AACA (9 1/2 years after the restoration).

[ex98thdrill]

Although I respect everyone's right to do as they wish with their car I can honestly say I'd want nothing to do with this hobby if this was the way all cars were treated. In my mind they were meant to be enjoyed by driving as their designer's intended. I really can't see how car's that are never started can be expected to compete against cars that are driven. The driven cars, it would seem are NEVER going to be able to compete fairly. I make these statements having owned three Shelby's and a Sunbeam Tiger. The Shelby clubs, when I belonged banned trailers as it was stated Shelby never built a car incapable of being driven to a meet. I took a national first in my 2 digit 1965 GT350 after having driven 17hrs in a blinding rainstorm from NY up through Canada and down to Detroit in the SAAC's first National Concours D'Elegance. I then proceeded to drive that car 10,000 miles that year in rain, snow & sunshine because it was just too much fun to stay out of! Years ago an editorial in Old Cars Weekly said that this hobby was about the automobile plain & simple , not mobile gods meant to be towed around and worshiped! I guess I still believe that to this day.

Howard, I understand what you're saying but there are three issues that come to mind here.

1. You live down south where you have more opportunities to drive your car due to weather. Road salt in the north destroys cars.

2. You have cars that can run with traffic. You start getting into the pre-war and early post war, those cars can't do that. A lot of our older stuff we can't run much beyond 45mph.

3. You have a 12 volt electrical system where you can see while you're driving in the dark and can be seen by other people on the road.

We drive our cars to shows as long as it is within commuting distance. But when you figure the elements, speed, and lighting, we don't want to be out on the roads with those cars after dark.

We're talking about two different generations of vehicles.

[junkyardjeff]

I have no problem with people trailering the 40s on back as they are useless on todays highways,if I want to take my 37 Chevy p/u to a show thats over 200 miles I will have to haul it some way as the cab is just too small for me to be comfortable on a long distance trip. Unlike most on here I made my 37 able to drive 65 all day long and stop in todays traffic even with a vintage motor but due to the small cab its not going to be driven very far,I am thinking about driving it to Flint Michigan this summer for the VCCAs 50th and GM 100th anniversary show and will be bringing plenty of pain medicine for my back if I do. It might get hooked to a tow dolly since I dont have a trailer but would love to drive it there.

[Guest billybird]

Here is one more reason to use a trailer: a family. I can't imagine me, my wife, and two young teens riding 500 { or even 50 } miles to a meet in a single seat narrow coupe. It's so much easier to sit back with the cruise and air on and have the car as clean as it was when I left home with it. When I arrive at a national meet I immediately begin having a good time; not working on my car. I also realize that some "relax" while working on their cars once they get there. I restored my car with my own hands, my own money, and my own time. I feel I have the right to be as "funny" about my car as I want to be. It is a trailer queen and thats what I tell people it is. The only excuse I need is "It's mine". I say live and let live. Some people enjoy competition. I'm one of them. On the otherhand, if someone is anti-trailer it does'nt bother me one bit. If they drive theirs until the wheels fall off it does'nt bother me. If they set it on fire and burn it up, it's theirs. I enjoy the hobby like I want to and leave everybody else alone. Diversity makes the world more interesting.

[Guest Silverghost]

This also opens-up the topic of all those Indy pace cars, especially Corvettes , that are bought new and never ever driven .

I know a guy that has an Indy pace-car corvette and a 1990 454 SS Chevy sport truck that both have under 20 original miles on the clock.

Both are sitting in his garage.

The factory plastic covers are still on the seats and paper on the carpet !

This guy has been speculating on these since they were new !

He is now very ill and may not survive very long~~~

Sadly this truck and auto will be arond much longer than he will~~~

And HE never really enjoyed actually driving & using both !

[Restorer32]

I have never seen a "non-functioning piece of junk" being judged at an AACA meet. If anything it seems to me that the guy who trailers his car likely has done as much to see that the car functions as intended as has the guy who drives his car to the meet. Maybe I'm gullible but I don't see this as an issue. In your above post you say you can't see how a driven car could ever compete with a trailer queen yet later in the same post you say you took a National First after driving your car 17 hours in a blinding rain storm. I never understood the animosity between the drivers and those who trailer. Might be more work prepping a driven car but they certainly CAN compete successfully with "trailer queens".

[nearchoclatetown]

The horse is DEAD, for two months and some of you continue to beat it. The original poster ask a simple question, got a straight forward answer and left. He owns the car, he should be able to do whatever he wishes to do or not do with it. He clearly said he didn't want opinions of whether he should drive his car. He obviously enjoys his car the way he wants. As usual, another new member that may have had something to contribute to this forum is chased away by a small group of know it alls.

[Big Mark]

I agree Chocolate, He could always pull the car in with a strap have it on the field for everyone to enjoy and just not have it judged. everyone is happy !

[SolidAxle]

I would be willing to bet that many of the "enlightened" comments spouted in this thread have insured us that we will never see this OP's vehicle at an AACA meet. The irony is that this forum does not permit folks to bad mouth a poor vendor by name but it certainly has permitted the clear, repeated, and directed alienation of a present or potential club member. We should be so proud! This thread should have been closed early on.

[SolidAxle]

he got the correct answerr and then argued .

Really? We must be reading different threads. The OP hasn't even responded since post #21 and I didn't perceive him as particularly argumentative. He previously indicated that he accepted the answer to his initial question, hoped it would change in the future, but elected, for his own reasons, to not argue or debate his decision to not start his car after restoration. THEN the mob began its condescending dig and pontificated about the validity of the OP's logic and determined that he was insignificant. Well congratulation, you've won, he's gone.... (I think).

We can either accept that there is room in this club for different viewpoints or we can drive all differring viewpoints away along with the people... and then ask ourselves "how do we attract new members into our club?".

[MCHinson]

Well, for what it is worth, I agree that perhaps this discussion has about 2 more pages in it than it needs.

Also, if I remember correctly there were a few posts that were argumentative that were deleted by a moderator.

The original poster did get the answer to his question and indicated that he had no interest in participating in AACA Competition under the rules as they are, so I don't think that the later comments "ran him off".

But, please be aware that all members of the Discussion Forum are not required to be members of AACA. Some of those accused of running off a potential member are not members... sometimes it does seem that AACA membership should be required to be a member of the Discussion Forum....but if that were the case, the Discussion Forum would not be much of a recruiting tool.

Bottom line, everybody needs to be an adult here and a little bit of an effort to be polite would also be a good idea.

[hddennis]

I didn't come here asking for opinions about whether a car should be driven or not.

After 2 responses, neither critical, this was his response. I believe his statement set the tone that followed.

Howard Dennis

[SolidAxle]

After 2 responses, neither critical, this was his response. I believe his statement set the tone that followed.

Howard Dennis

I concede. You are right, he frickin' deserved it!

[Steve Moskowitz]

One of the problems with postings or email is that you can never be sure how someone intended the message to be conveyed. There were some interesting posts on this subject but others that may have needlessly been harsh or excessively opinionated. Since this is the AACA Judging Forum I would hope that members and non-members who choose to post here will try to be above the "fray".

There are some opinions stated in this thread that certainly were not made by AACA members nor were they they the attitude of our club. When reading these posts please understand that the club does want open discussion but within acceptable guidelines.

Our club does not want to chase people away from this forum! Hopefully in the coming year we can all count to 10 before we post and make sure that our words help grow the hobby, not reduce it.

[ted sweet]

I think the original poster is 1 of the Mustang Club of Americas chief judges.

[junkyardjeff]

I heard there are cars like that shown at the Super Chevy shows too.