1939 Buick 40 series Torque Ball

[sleeve-valve]

When I bought the car i knew there was a clunk on deceleration. I thought maybe a motor mount but they all seem tight, I think it's coming from the torque ball area. Looking up from underneath, the torque ball is able to move side to side, there is a gap between the frame and the torque ball on either side, see the picture, where the thread is showing is where it can move side to side over the threaded area.

I am not familiar with torque balls, have read the shop manual section about them a few times but still not sure, should it be tight between the frame rails? Am I missing some shims between the torque ball and frame where the threads are showing, maybe the torque ball mounting assemblies are bad?

[danhar1960]

Check to make sure those rubber mounts are in good condition as they will give you grief if they aren't. It sounds like your torque ball is lose. You can remove some shims (assuming they haven't already been removed) from the retainer and take up the slack. They need to be reasonably firm but not so tight as to bind. It may be that you just need to replace the torque ball. The contact face liners do wear out. You can get exchange relined units from Bob's Auto. If you pull it apart you should also check the spline on the short shaft as the do chew out when they have been flopping around.

:(The short shaft it seems was another of their not so brilliant ideas in '39.

Danny

[jeff]

Not sure what your picture is showing, and I am also not sure if it's exactly like my '38.

But, I just thought I would mention that you need to move the rear axle back to take this thing apart. I have done this about three or four times, and I finally concluded that it's easiest to remove the rear coil springs.

Just a thought.

[39BuickEight]

I believe your pic shows threads that are used to adjust the trailing arms to make sure the rear end is straight. Maybe not. This would not have anything to do with the movement of the ball itself.

[sleeve-valve]

Check to make sure those rubber mounts are in good condition as they will give you grief if they aren't. It sounds like your torque ball is lose. You can remove some shims (assuming they haven't already been removed) from the retainer and take up the slack. They need to be reasonably firm but not so tight as to bind. It may be that you just need to replace the torque ball. The contact face liners do wear out. You can get exchange relined units from Bob's Auto. If you pull it apart you should also check the spline on the short shaft as the do chew out when they have been flopping around.

:(The short shaft it seems was another of their not so brilliant ideas in '39.

Danny

Thanks for the info, Danny. I now see them on Bob's. I think the best thing at this point is just pull it apart and I'll see what's gone bad, I'll be sure to check the short shaft also.

[sleeve-valve]

Not sure what your picture is showing, and I am also not sure if it's exactly like my '38.

But, I just thought I would mention that you need to move the rear axle back to take this thing apart. I have done this about three or four times, and I finally concluded that it's easiest to remove the rear coil springs.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the tip, Jeff. When I was under there last night, I was wondering what might be the best way to pull the rear axle. I will take your advise and disconnect at the springs. The picture is mainly of one of the torque ball mounts. It is taken from under the car. The bottom of the picture is the side of the frame rail. The bulged think is a broken seal around the torque ball. The threaded part that shows just off the frame is the mounting bolt and that is where the play is. Sounds the best thing to do is take it apart and get it all right.

[sleeve-valve]

I believe your pic shows threads that are used to adjust the trailing arms to make sure the rear end is straight. Maybe not. This would not have anything to do with the movement of the ball itself.

Sorry for the not so good picture. The trailing arms are a little further back and not in the picture. The threads showing are part of the torque ball mounting stud that goes thru the rubber lined torque ball mount (that torque ball mount is bolted to the frame) and then goes into an ear on the torque ball. Where those threads are showing, there is play, allowing the torque ball, and the forward torque tube that is bolted to it, to move side to side.

[danhar1960]

Those mounts need to be in good condition. The '38s and '40s didn't have them. It's a 1 year only thing as it was not a very good idea. Those mounts "help" keep the torque ball in place on centre. There is a lot of force directed at that torque ball. If the mounts are no good the short torque tube will flex and move around. This will contribute to chewing out the splines in the short drive shaft. A worn and lose torque ball will also contribute to chewing out the short drive shaft and ultimately lead to the "Clunkies" on acceleration and deceleration. The tube is centre by moving the rear of the engine side to side. There is a notch at the centre of the"X' frame to centre it to. Those mounts are then adjusted to keep the torque ball in place. Good mounts are a must have.

Danny

[1939_Buick]

Think these "torque ball mounts" (from an ebay auction some time ago)

Danny will know if this is the part

Other images with the part number

Edited October 29, 2010 by 1939_buick (see edit history)

[danhar1960]

That's the bits. Just need the nuts and large serrated washers for the mounting studs but those are clear enough in the original pic. The serrated sides of the washers need to go against the ball carrier so it grips and doesn't move around.

Danny

[sleeve-valve]

It's all making sense to me now. The torque ball mounts on mine are definately bad, allowing the side to side movement. I can replace them without pulling the rear axle, I'll be placing an order with Bob's tomorrow. The boot is torn and needs to be replaced, since I'll have to pull the axle for that, I'll thoroughly check out the internals. A big thanks to everyone for the detailed information and great pictures!