Odd & Unusual Early Engine Designs

[1939_Buick]

Is not old but it is unusal.

High Power Density Pivotal Engine by Pivotal Engineering Ltd - Christchurch, New Zealand

Pivotal engine applications - Pivotal Engineering Ltd, Christchurch, New Zealand

[1939_Buick]

More here

Unusual Internal-Combustion Engines.

An enormous variety of unconventional internal combustion engines have been invented, almost universally with total lack of success. The list below attempts the near-impossible task of classifying them, and links you to details of the engine, where such details currently exist on the site. It does not pretend to be a complete list, but it is growing. At the moment I'm discovering more obscure engines every day.

Edited October 28, 2010 by 1939_buick (see edit history)

[Ivan Saxton]

In the article cited in post #46 above, it appears that Manly pre-invented for his engine in 1902 the same coil and distributer ignition system that was also devised by Charles Kettering for the later 4 cylinder Cadillacs. This as developed, was used almost universally until the advent of electronic ignition (appart from magnetos).

A good many years ago, Antique Automobile ran a feature on the Elcar and the Lever engine. This used two connecting rods per cylinder, and a lever with an off-centre pivot. The intention was probably to increase the torque, while keeping the piston speed lower. There would have been some handicap in extra mass, and in frictional power waste.

In September 1980 Ernie Toth took me to meet Al Ferrara and Joe Loecy in the same evening. There were far too many highly significant cars in either place to indelibly commit to memory in the time. Hovever Joe had a complete good Lever engine from an Elcar. Does any running car still exist?

I highly recommend to anyone who is seriously interested in early antique cars a book edited by Barker and Harding, titled Automobile Design: Great Designers and Their Work.

The early Lanchester cars had horizontally opposed two cylinder engines. There were two

counter-rotating crankshafts, one above the other; and two conrods connecting each piston to each crankshaft. Dr Fred Lanchester was an intellectual giant with extraordinary depth of knowledge in diverse practical and scientific disciplines. His cars were noted for comfort and ease of control, and those pioneer 2 cylinder jobs were a revelation in vibrationless running compared to their contemporaries.

Sir Harry Rickardo was a long-time friend, and scientific and engineering friend of Fred Lanchester. He developed an engine type for the UK Air Ministry which showed great potential for aircraft use. Based on this, both Napier and RollsRoyce were developing single sleeve valve 2 stroke engines which were highly efficient and deafeningly noisy. These never flew because their purpose was satisfied by the rapid developement of the jet turbine.

[memaerobilia]

The 6 Cyl Taylor in-line survives.

It can be seen in the back of this photo behind the Miller race car body & frame, alongside the building and restoration of pre-WWII midget racer with rare outboard and three-spring Offy and more. We used to have over 175 rare pre-WWII engines scattered around our shop. 48 were WWI and earlier aero engines, and 19 were the only ones known of their type. We had bought the Taylor back around 1973 or so, having been told it was an experimental aero engine. LOTS of interesting design features. The main block and case were integral. (They did NOT come apart!) the intake manifolds were integral to the block. the crank went itno the lower case by removing the back plate of the engine (which had all the accessory drives)and pushing it through. The rods and pistons were installed by inserting them in large round holes (with cover plates) on the bottom of the case, fishing them around the crank and then fastening the piston rods to the crank. Carbs are not orig, but originals can be easily bolted back onto the original intake manifolds. The six stub exhaust on the left side of the block were all tapered in length from front to rear and were made of streamlined steel tubing with flanges, and mounted with large collar nuts that fit the threaded exhaust ports. As mentioned. most of the engine was fabricated from sheet and tubing ! Very large and heavy duty DOUBLE overhead cam on top...-even though it LOOKS like a single cam, because the double camshaft was tightly fitted, side-by-side in the top.

Edited November 6, 2010 by memaerobilia (see edit history)

[memaerobilia]

And for a much better image set...

[Jim Bollman]

I'm glad to hear the Taylor 6 has survived and is in good hands. I have sent you a PM on a possible follow up story for the Crosley Auto Club publication.

[Guest Dauro]

Not so early, just half a century ago, but what about the aircooled aluminium V12 intented for the Argonaut luxury motorcar? Are there any drawings of that engine? They never got to build a prototype, did they?

And, as the original thread doesn't specify internal combustion engines, I would mention The Doble steam engine as quite unusual. Seems to have had an extraordinary performance for the late twenties, wonder what it would have developed into today if it had survived?????

[nearchoclatetown]

The '53 Paxton automobile was supposed to have been built with a Dobel steam engine. Lack of $$ forced the substitution of a Porsche engine.

[Guest Dauro]

Interesting, didn't know of the Paxton. Suppose the lack of $$ was lack of perspective of profit. Would it have cost more than bring the London Bridge to the States? A pity.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

You can find-out quite a bit about the Doble steamers from "www.jaylenosgarage.com"....

Jay has two, and they are a most remarkable ( and complex ) auto... I would imagine that with the right computerized control systems ( as long as they are reliable.... ) and with modern metallurgy and insulations, Doble's original concepts could be made more efficient... it would still probably be a pricey machine.

Two big issues that have always plagued steam are corrosion and mineral deposits...

As much as I love steam engines, I have a suspicion that electric power will prove to be the practical alternative to the internal combustion engine....

[Guest bofusmosby]

I am wondering if the "compressed-air" engine will ever be a reality. The compressed air could also be created by way of chemical reaction, which could be made while driving. I don't know, maybe its just a pipe-dream. They have been around for a couple of centurys, but their efficiency is very poor, as they are built today.

Compressed air car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[memaerobilia]

Another one of the more interesting aero engine oddities from our old collection. With some firms having spent 20 million or more developing and researching diesel aircraft engines, in recent years, it seemd a good candidate for updating with some modern tech features and being well-along in design potential. Very unusual in that even numbered cyl radials are extremely rare, and then add the rarity of diesel and integral double Roots blowers. 4 litres and 160PS from 80/100mm bore & stroke.

This fascinating 8 cyl. Air-cooled, two-stroke, diesel rotary engine, was designed, in secret in 1937. The KHD firm was the oldest engine manufacturing firm, descending from the Otto firm. Built in the old Oberursel factory, it featured a quick-change propeller-hub with a knock-off spinner nut, like those used on race car wheels, among many other innovative and unusual features. The successfully tested design was set aside to concentrate on production of military aircraft engines. A design that seems ideal for mass production today, this engine was returned to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com</st1:country-region>Germany</ST1:place, to an unidentified buyer who acted through an agent.

[Ivan Saxton]

One very unusual automobile engine of the 1920's was the Trojan which was made by the Leyland truck company. I understand that they were mostly made for carrying goods. They were supposed to be fairly manouverable because of need to go into restricted places. My friend who has a friend with a restored Trojan says they were quiet and economical, and not very fast. I picked up an engine from the junk heap of a friend of my father's because it was odd, and I wanted to understand it back in the 1960's. There were four cylinders in a narrow V form. Each pair of cylinders (whose conrods were bolted together in a V to enclose a big end bearing on one of the two crankpins) had a common combustion chamber, so one cylinder had the inlet ports, and the other had the exhausts. It was a four cylinder, two bang two stroke. There was apparently quite a nest of them in one of our earliest big irrigation fruit growing towns on the Murray River, ---Mildura. They possibly would have been used between the rows of orange trees on the fruit blocks. The engine I had came from Mildura and went back ther via my friend to his friend who restore one. Incidentally, Mildura was established by the Chaffey Brothers from America. Another of my friends owned and partly restored the car that they brought with them, which was a huge 65hp six cylinder Napier, which had been originally owned by Lord Lonsdale in England, then owned and registered in America, yet never road registered in Australia.

[memaerobilia]

Been disposing of much of my (mostly WWI and earlier)aero/auto library of 40 years. One of last acquistions I made was this rare, original 1906 4 page brochure/catalogue for The Neer Automobile Engine Co. of Columbus, Ohio. It looks rather 0rdinary until closer inspection reveals it was an odd experiment into air-cooling. Instead of cylinders with water jackets, these engines had "air jacket cast to cylinder by numerous projections which serve to break flow of air over cylinder, with (with aluminum crankcse, fan case, air tube, & intake pipe)Power fan driving perfect hurricane of cold air into the air jacket." Gives stat & spec of four different size engines . It states "It is without doubt the engine for motorists desiring the elimination of all petty annoyances."

[memaerobilia]

The Adams-Farwell rotary.

From one of my favorite engine manuals/catalogues, as it is considered to be one of the first successful rotary engines. It was produced in several versions, including one that had many longtitudinal external cooling fins on the cylinders. Here is the previously mentioned Adams Farwell rotary engine, circa 1910-1912. The Adams Fawell automobile with this engine sold for around $3,500 in 1912, A lofty sum indeed.

Edited November 19, 2010 by memaerobilia (see edit history)

[Guest Nancy DeWitt]

Isn't the ex-Harrah Compound now in the new museum in Alaska?

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

Yes! The 1906 Compound is here at the Fountainhead Antique Auto Museum in Fairbanks. Runs great and we even had Dennis Gage driving it this summer. I'm pretty sure it will be featured in a 2011 episode of "My Classic Car."

Nancy DeWitt, Historian

Fountainhead Antique Auto Museum

Fairbanks Antique Car Museums | Fountainhead Antique Auto Museum, Alaska

[Ivan Saxton]

The Speedwell of Dayton Ohio, introduced the Mead Rotary Valve engine in 1912. Problems apparently arose withb the "foolproof" lubrication of the rotary valves. Then the customers and dealers vanished because the cars did not appear..

[bruffsup]

Killinger und Freund built with Nazi money at Berlin University circa 1937. The original designers of the 5 cylinder radial Megola participated. This bike had a monocoque chassis with a 3 cylinder 2 stroke 2 speed transmission in the front wheel. The bike still exists in the USA . It was brought back as war booty.

Ivan , I was astonished to hear mention of Chaffey as he and Tett built the very grist mill I am sitting in now in Canada! He moved on to found the town of Ontario California and was instrumental in developing the irrigation systems there before moving to Australia. Incredible. I have much more info if you are interested.

[hddennis]

Years ago I saw an early Elmore 4 cylinder 2 cycle car motor at Hershey and always wondered if any cars have survived?

Howard Dennis

http://www.sandusky-county-scrapbook.net/ElmorePhotoAlbum/pages/CAT7_JPG.htm

[oldcarfudd]

The current HCCA roster shows 11 Elmores.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Guest whildwhun]

Re post # 60

we have a 1910 elmore 4 cyl 2 stroke curently undergoing restoration. It is a rather simple design looking forward to running the motor this spring

Brian

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Saw an unrestored three-cylinder Elmore (1908?) at Hershey in 2009. Very intriguing engine.

Somewhere on Youtube is a video of the owner starting it up.

( Well, I could have sworn there was a video at least a year ago, but a quick look at youtube and google found nothing... ??? )

Edited January 5, 2011 by De Soto Frank (see edit history)

[Guest Albert]

One i though was kinda different was made for a Puch motorcycle, was a two cylinder, Single two stroke,, two pistons and rods with one combustion chamber single spark plug,, fresh charge entered the bottom of the rear cylinder, and exhaust exited the front cylinder.. known as a Puch twingle, twin cylinder single...

[Guest cben09]

Good low end torque,,but the un balenced weight made viberation and wore ones sox out and caused plates to come disconnected in the battery if used at high revs,,,It wasn't a sports bike but was a good plonker,,Sold under the Sears name in the US,,Ben

[Guest onelung]

.... I shall describe the 1919-1923 6 cylinder, 6 litre Cuff-valve Peugeot for you in a subsequent post, when I can get my son to do scans and photos. Peugeot apparently say they built 180 and sold 120 of these, according to Jean-Pierre Loiellet, who has a restored car in France. I have enough to rebuild two cars. One of my friends had one in 1946-48 as an everyday car, when he also had a Tipo8 Isotta Fraschini and a 6 1/2litre ohc Hispano Suiza, and he compares the Peugeot more than favourably to these. I was told by two other former owners that the early cars with two wheel brakes would go much better than they would stop, and this did not improve their survival. I'll leave the description and exlanation till I have the images to send.

Hi Ivan ... are we any closer to being able to see these images or have a description please?

Regards, Geoff C.

Adelaide

[Dandy Dave]

This belongs here....

http://forums.aaca.org/f169/rotory-valve-engine-307095.html

[JV Puleo]

Here's my favorite... I don't know how to make it come up on the forum so I've attached the link to google patents.

EXPLOSIVE-ENGINE - Google Patents

To the best of my knowledge, it was never built. I never met the inventor, but he was my great-grandfather. Its so simple that I may build one some day just to see if it worked.

[Rusty_OToole]

I am wondering if the "compressed-air" engine will ever be a reality. The compressed air could also be created by way of chemical reaction, which could be made while driving. I don't know, maybe its just a pipe-dream. They have been around for a couple of centurys, but their efficiency is very poor, as they are built today.

Compressed air car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Years ago I read a book on new inventions, published in 1903. One of the inventions was a compressed air powered car. It was a typical 1903 gas buggy with a small steam engine, but the engine ran on liquid air.

If you compress ordinary air to 600 PSI it turns to a liquid. This liquid air will turn back into ordinary air if you release the pressure. Liquid air can be stored in a pressure tank, or it can be stored unpressurised if it is kept very cold. I think the car had a Thermos type tank to keep it cold.

The little car had a top speed of 20 MPH, typical for the time. Don't remember how far it would go on a tank of air.

The Liquid Air company is still in business. They went on to produce welding gasses and other compressed gasses.

Today you can buy a cylinder of nitrogen compressed to 2000PSI from any welding gas dealer. If you wanted to experiment with compressed air power that would be a good start.

Other inventions in the same book included the Morgenthaler Linotype machine and a 50HP solar powered steam engine on an ostrich ranch in California. Wish I still had it.

[40phil41]

The Adams-Farwell rotary.

From one of my favorite engine manuals/catalogues, as it is considered to be one of the first successful rotary engines. It was produced in several versions, including one that had many longtitudinal external cooling fins on the cylinders. Here is the previously mentioned Adams Farwell rotary engine, circa 1910-1912. The Adams Fawell automobile with this engine sold for around $3,500 in 1912, A lofty sum indeed.

I believe that there was an Adams-Farwell automobile in the Harrah collection. Somewhere I have a 1970's era magazine article about this car. I wonder where this car is now???

Phil

[Guest cben09]

A-F were probably better known for their vertical miller head that mounted on the crossrail of a plainer,,More clumsy than a Becker-Braynard vertical,,,but all good machines,,My 2 ton Becker has saved me more than once,,,no viberation,,,no chatter,,Cheers,,Ben

[Guest onelung]

Hi Ivan ... are we any closer to being able to see these images or have a description please?

Regards, Geoff C.

Adelaide

Through another forum site I am happy (if not relieved) to at last have found out what these Peugeot Cuff Valve engines looked like. WEIRD!

But then, they are French, so what would one expect! My suspicion - surmise only - is that it was done the way it was to circumvent patents on the Knight & Burt-McCollum (single sleeve & twin sleeve engines respectively) - but I stand to be corrected if anyone out there knows better. I have to say that I can see it looking more at home in a marine application after having been scaled up about a hundred times or so. And who was the engineer who dreamt it up? (and what was he smoking..?) Was such a design (if that word can be used here) used elsewhere - and if so, where?

Edited August 22, 2011 by onelung (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Hummmmm. Yep, I believe we would all be swimming in air everytime it got very cold... Dandy Dave!

[Max BURKE]

G,day to all and Ivan.

Kevin Fagan and I were talking about the goveners Gobron a while back. Did it go to the US of A?

If so Maybe some knowelgeable blokes over there know where it is now. By the way the only one I ever have seen is in Jacks shed with his other treasures,a two cylinder, may be the one of which you speak.

Max Burke Nulkaba Australia

[Max BURKE]

G,day to all

Just back from our annual 3 day tour in the upper Hunter Valley.Touring with Mick Bendich (1913 Chalmers) who allows that he found a two cylinder Gobron Brille engine on the shore at Leggs Camp. He and Alan Blevins went up in Blevo's truck and brought it and several other early engines back to Sydney about 40 years ago. The Gobbler had been fitted into a launch but the water jackets were still intact. Several of the other engines, REO and Pierce Arrow had the jackets destroyed by salt water. Mick is 99% sure that engine is the one in Jacks Shed.

Max Burke Nulkaba Australia

[Guest Nancy DeWitt]

Here's a photo of the top of the engine from our 1906 Compound. Only wish I had one of the four-cylinder, eight-cycle engine from our 1898 Hay Motor vehicle. A beautiful automobile with a very flawed engine design.

[Guest prs519]

In a 1948 or 1949 issue, Scientific American magazine illustrated and discussed various piston and rotary engines Some were uncanny, but it was unbelievable how many ways they showed to harness the linearenergy of a piston. They even had a couple where the piston was free to move in a circular cylinder (toroid, I think), like a bullet.

[smithbrother]

What were some of the engine FLAWS?

Dale in Indy