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Restorer32

Judging standards

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Mark, you made the heinous accusation that your exact scores had been given to you by both a judge and then national headquarters on your form. This should never happen, and if you do not appreciate the reasons why, I surely believe that threatening to punch someone in the nose, is an inappropriate response to the misunderstanding. I do hope you understand you have pointed to specific details of a picture we can't see. as far as Galvanized wheels and side curtains, many would like to know and it would help us understand better your consternation.

I have read and re read the posts and the only aggressive voice is yours. I also understand "what's going on" as far as the AACA judging process goes, but as stated before, don't know enough about the car (era/style/class/manufacturer) to even help, much less understand thoroughly. One of the main reasons judges are instructed to not speak to car owners is that often the responses follow exactly along the lines of this thread. Poor communication between two passionate individuals and we have all seen what happened to Cool Hand Luke when there was failure to communicate. I truly wish you happiness with your cars.

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

Big Mark,

We are only able to communicate on this site by typed words. You have to understand that using such written communication is often difficult to communicate as effectively as we would all like. You miss the non-verbal clues such as tone of voice, facial expressions, posture, hand gestures, and etc.

Please take the time to calmly re-read this thread and I think you will see that you misunderstood and responded agressively due to not understanding what several people were trying to say, in an attempt to help you with your questions and concerns.

As it stands, your previous posts, as I read them, indicate that someone told you how many points were deducted from your car. If that is what happened, the person who told you the number of points deducted violated the rules.

I suspect that this did not happen. I would guess that what you were talking about is a preprinted number in the category that was highlighted on the blank judging form sent to you. That does not mean that that number of points was deducted on your car.

Several folks here have tried to help. If you are able to calmly explain the situation with facts, I am sure that someone will be able to help you understand. Perhaps the judges made mistakes and perhaps they did not. I don't have enough information at this time to tell one way or the other.

It has probably happened to most of us over the years. I have been disappointed by what I am quite sure was a judging error on my own car in the not too distant past. I am still a little disappointed and irritated about it but it is not going to make me threaten someone.

I hope you will take Restorer32 up on his offer. I have been on both sides of this issue. I have helped others by looking at their cars and I have also had a more experienced judge point out some stuff on my car that I had not noticed.

You really should go to a judging school and read the judging guidelines. After that, I think you would better understand the system, and the process.

Even if you don't understand how we are trying to help, we are all in this club together.

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QUOTE: Next year there will be a spot on the new judging form (all forms have been changed) that the team captain must check off indicating that he has told the owner of a major deduction. That probably would not have helped in this case as it was a series of deductions apparently that added up not a circled major deduction UNQUOTE.

I agree this is a great idea. I believe an equally good idea would be to include a check mark that indicates that the Captain has asked the owner for documentation where appropriate. Of course, the next question is how can we determine if it was appropriate, after the fact? So, maybe it wouldn't work. Over 40 years as an AACA Judge (201 credits) the not asking for documentation where appropriate is a problem I've run into too often. That said, I've also noticed that we've gotten better at it in recent times. Everything said, AACA has, without the shadow of a doubt, the best judging in the hobby, and the Club never stops trying to improve the system anyway.

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I too always wondered why we did not release point deductions, but this thread pretty much explains why. Could you imagine the time being consumed fighting back and forth over a one or two point deduction that kept a car from an award being sought?

Other marque specific organizations can and will provide more detailed analysis, but then again, we are talking apples and rutabagas. They spend MUCH more time developing exacting standards and likewise spend a lot more time in the judging process. It would just not be practical for a universal make club and judging process like AACA.

AACA has a wonderful show/judging process that I believe honestly rewards those vehicles who meet the benchmarks as set forth. Every judging class I have attended has stressed that authenticity and condition are what we key on, and any questions as to said authenticity should be addressed with the owner...who should be prepared to show proof if asked. I have never heard an instructor set forth a "gotcha" mentality.

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..... I have never heard an instructor set forth a "gotcha" mentality.

I can tell you for sure that not one instructor I have be instructed by, be they for judging school or a CJE, has EVER had the "gotcha" mentality. We are told to be thorough but to not nit pick the vehicles.

I believe in the AACA way of judging. I feel that to best abilities of human beings we try our best to be fair and equal to all. :)

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Reading all the posts about judging and points makes me glad I am not a judge or will never have a show car,from what I can see it looks like its a hassle on both sides and a headache I can live without.

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Reading all the posts about judging and points makes me glad I am not a judge or will never have a show car,from what I can see it looks like its a hassle on both sides and a headache I can live without.

Judging or showing isn't for everyone and that is perfectly okay. :)

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You guys can get the high blood pressure and go prematurely gray and all the other ills from all the worrying about points and judging as I happily drive my old cars. :):):)

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junkyardjeff,

A 30 year law enforcement career gave me high blood pressure and gray hair. Showing cars, judging cars, and touring with the same cars that I show is what I do for fun. There is no reason why you can't show a car and drive the heck out of it too. You just have to be willing to regularly work to maintain the car.

Showing cars is not for everybody, but for those who enjoy it, it is a lot of fun. Most of the fun is the challenge to work on the car to keep it in pristine condition. The fun is in the garage, not just the show field. Different people have different ideas about how they want to enjoy the hobby.

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junkyardjeff,

I have to echo what Matt says. You seem like a pretty level headed fella who might actually enjoy the show circuit. I like it when I get to "talk cars" with folks in my particular class and I learn so much more than I do online or by reading books (although they are helpful as well.)

You get to meet some folks who have a lot of disposible income who wrote a lot of checks for their restoration and you meet those who did most if not all of the work themselves. I suppose the majority fall somewhere in the middle. I think the uniting thing is that they all want to continually improve their vehicles towards that "factory fresh" goal.

Showing does NOT mean you have to turn your car into a museum piece. Far from it! OK, maybe some megabuck rides do live their life going from climate controlled garage to air ride trailer to showfield, but my cars, like yours, are DRIVEN. I probably put close to a thousand miles a year on my Corvette, and that didn't keep me from getting my Senior at Hershey against some other beautiful machines. I LOVE caring for my car after a nice run, the same way a thoroughbred horse is maintained after a workout.

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junkyardjeff: There is a very simple formula for winning in the AACA. Correct research, correct documentation, correct parts and correct workmanship. = win. There was a time I feared AACA competition because of things like I have read on this thread. Now, after 7 Grand National Senior awards, I know the above formula will work. You should try it. It becomes addictive!

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I can tell you for sure that not one instructor I have be instructed by, be they for judging school or a CJE, has EVER had the "gotcha" mentality. We are told to be thorough but to not nit pick the vehicles.

:)

Mark;

Having just gone through the beginnings of the judging process last year (for the exact reason stated above, to learn how to better prepare my cars for AACA shows) , I can tell you that the instructor I had told us specifically that if we are to err, it is to be on the side of the owner!!! If you think about it, it really makes sense. People work hard on their cars, they win awards, they are happy, they encourage more new members, organization grows and prospers. The opposite makes no sense from any organization's point of view. There is a set of basic standards that judges are entrusted to make sure a car is up to before an award is granted. There is no "out to get anyone" mentality that I have seen. People are human and mistakes are made sometimes. Learn from them and go to the next show so armed and ready to support the areas where mistakes were made. Good luck!!!

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I love walking away from a well done vehicle with very few to no deductions taken. I admit I am tough on judging but only to the extent of being fair to one and all. If your vehicle is in a class I am Team Captain for or a Field Judge for I will make every effort to do the job to the best of my ability. :)

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I want no part of a show car and there is no way I would consider chasing points fun,I build my cars the way I want it not the way the manufacture built it so I prefer the cruise ins or the spectator judging shows. I would rather be taking a trip in my car then sitting around a show all day looking at the same people and cars,actually I would rather be in a junkyard getting parts then sitting around all day at a show. A day at the junkyard or swapmeet is better then a day at a car show as it would be way more productive and more fun for me. :):):):)

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Restoration- A return of something to a former, original, normal, or unimpaired condition.

Only see a few like that at my local cruise.

Not once have I walked an AACA show field and NOT been impressed.

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There are folks that come to AACA Meets to catch up with friends as much as they are there for the vehicles.

I know that there are those that "sweat bullets" over the judging. But in the end it is the beauty of the vehicles and fun with friends old and new that really makes the time enjoyable. If a trophy is won then all the better.

There is plenty of room in the "old car hobby" for everyone to enjoy their vehicles the way they want to. There are lots of "car clubs" to cater to whatever someone's way of enjoying them is.

Some clubs are strict in their rules, like the AACA is, to preserve the mission of the club.

And some are more subjective, like a club local to where we are. They accept any kind of vehicle someone has and they do not have a national club that oversees their club. They are free to make whatever rules they decide on.

The rub comes in when one person or group tries to tell someone else what they should do with their vehicle. If you paid for it do what you want with it. :)

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I only wish there were more driver & original unrestored "Survivor" style cars attending AACA show events as this is what we have owned for decades.

I do not have any of my cars judged as they are not "Show Cars"

.

I do attend AACA shows myself~~~

But not WITH my cars .

I feel somewhat out of place with my old Brass-Era & Classic cars in a field dominated by mostly "Show Cars"

I had gotten negative comments in the distant past from folks asking~~~

"When are you going to restore or re-paint your car ?"

"Why are you here; your car is not a Show Car ?"

"Your car does not belong here !"

I have two other friends who have had the very same comments made on their driver cars.

If more Driver & "Survivor" type cars actually attended the AACA shows, and were actually accepted by the general public attending these shows I would actually re-join the AACA again & display our many Brass-Era Antiques & Classics !

In the early days of the AACA many cars at these shows were new barn-finds and "Survivor Drivers".

As it is now~~~

I just attend as a spectator !

This is one BIG reason we dropped-out of the AACA !

Edited by Silverghost (see edit history)

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Brad,

I don't know what AACA Meets you have attended, but it is my understanding that HPOF (Historic Preservation of Original Features) is the fastest growing class in AACA. There have been huge numbers of HPOF cars at all of the AACA Meets that I have been to in the last several years.

HPOF is exactly the type of "survivor" cars you are talking about!

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Matt:

This may now be the case~~~

now today~~~

But in the past these sort of "Survivor Driver" cars were really not well accepted at all !

This chased my Father & I away from AACA & showing our Antique & Classics.

We have stayed on the outside fringe of the old car hobby ever since !

For myself 55 years !

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Brad, I don't know when you stopped attending, but for example,

Here is the list of HPOF cars from the last meet of 2010 in Hershey... I am relatively sure that no other class of vehicles had this many cars in it.

Class HPOF

Historic Preservation

1913 Cartercar.......................................................................................................Michael H. Witt, Winchester, VA

1917 Duplex.................................................................................................Donald R. Barlup, New Bloomfield, PA

1919 Oakland..........................................................................................................Kenneth Roach, Chesapeake, VA

1924 Ford.............................................................................................................George W. Kaiser, Collingdale, PA

Page 23 of 25

1926 Auto Red Bug..................................................................................................Thomas H. Ross, St Davids, PA

1927 Nash....................................................................................................Gustav W. Ludwig, Blmngton Spgs, TN

1929 Lincoln..............................................................................................................Robert W. Berry, Fairlawn, OH

1929 Ford..........................................................................................................................Robert Luczun, Clifton, NJ

1929 Chevrolet............................................................................................................Charles D. Sutton, Indiana, PA

1930 Ford..................................................................................................................Keith A. Ernst, Orwigsburg, PA

1930 Ford.................................................................................................................Wesley G. Roll, Bloomsbury, NJ

1931 Pierce Arrow........................................................................................................J. M. Hagans, Columbus, OH

1936 Ford.....................................................................................................................John T. Magee, Lancaster, PA

1937 Cadillac..................................................................................................................Walter Grace, Limekiln, PA

1937 Packard.........................................................................................................Michael Manherz, Thurmont, MD

1937 Ford................................................................................................................Thomas L. Martin, Strasburg, PA

1937 Desoto.................................................................................................................Matt Staack, Coopersburg, PA

1941 Willys..........................................................................................................Gary G. McDonell, Allentown, PA

1941 Packard...........................................................................................................George M. Simone, Sterling, CT

1942 BSA...............................................................................................................Richard N. Carnegie, Elkton, MD

1947 Dodge.............................................................................................................Chris J. Bamford, Edmonton, AB

1948 Nash................................................................................................................Timothy Kramer, Thorndale, PA

1952 Chevrolet...............................................................................................................Chad Lilly, Beaver Falls, PA

1953 Mercury......................................................................................................Edward I. Ahrens, West Valley, NY

1954 Chevrolet.............................................................................................Donald R. Barlup, New Bloomfield, PA

1955 Packard.................................................................................................................Jason W. Gehring, Bath, OH

1955 MG.......................................................................................................Louis I. Mandich, Jr., Lincoln Univ, PA

1956 Chevrolet...........................................................................................................Brian T. Evans, Harrisburg, PA

1957 Mercedes-Benz.....................................................................................Nicholas G. Perakis, West Chester, PA

1957 Ford....................................................................................................................Stephen Schmidt, Wyckoff, NJ

1957 Cadillac................................................................................................................Stuart Slavin, Harrisburg, PA

1957 Mercury...........................................................................................................Robert E. Stoudt, Fleetwood, PA

1958 Edsel..................................................................................................................Matt Dorschug, Burlington, NJ

1958 Rambler................................................................................................Bruce W. Ritchie, Egg Harbor Twp, NJ

1959 Chevrolet..................................................................................................................Stanley Groy, Palmyra, PA

1959 Vespa........................................................................................................Philip D. Jamison, West Chester, PA

1960 Rambler........................................................................................................ AACA Museum Inc, Hershey, PA

1960 Cadillac.............................................................................................................Jay Hirsch, Tomkins Cove, NY

1960 Studebaker.....................................................................................Richard Schickling, Plymouth Meeting, PA

1962 Chevrolet Corvair.............................................................................................Ken Dubanowich, Denville, NJ

1962 Chrysler..........................................................................................................Linda Seibert, Elizabethtown, PA

1964 Lincoln.................................................................................................O. P. Wenderoth, Jr., Reisterstown, MD

1966 Mercury........................................................................................................ AACA Museum Inc, Hershey, PA

1967 Buick..................................................................................................................Sharon H. Kerr, Hamburg, NY

1967 Ford.................................................................................................................Lee P. Maitland, Drexel Hill, PA

1967 Ford Shelby Mustang...........................................................................................Rick L. Watt, Boyertown, PA

1967 AMC........................................................................................................................Dave Williams, Media, PA

1969 Dodge..................................................................................................................Stanley M. Sipko, Dupont, PA

1969 Chevrolet.......................................................................................................George F. Spicka, Baltimore, MD

1970 Chevrolet........................................................................................................Richard Michel, Stroudsburg, PA

1970 Cadillac...............................................................................................................Donald J. Miller, Malvern, PA

1970 Honda............................................................................................................W. Michael Ulrich, Lancaster, PA

1972 Datsun...................................................................................................................Walter Miller, Syracuse, NY

1972 Chrysler.................................................................................................................Morris Sarnoff, Vineland, NJ

1973 Pontiac...................................................................................................................James M. Beck, Temple, PA

1973 Chevrolet............................................................................................Donald D. Bock, Jr., Woolwich Twp, NJ

1974 Chevrolet.................................................................................................................Paul T. Bachman, York, PA

1974 Cadillac.............................................................................................................Daniel T. Espy, Essex Fells, NJ

1974 Chevrolet.......................................................................................................William G. West, Deep River, CT

1975 Cadillac..............................................................................................................Edward F. Hainke, Lusby, MD

Page 24 of 25

1975 Cadillac......................................................................................................Phyllis G. Hickernell, Richland, PA

Repeat Historic Preservation

1914 International.......................................................................................................Richard B. Suhr, Norwalk, OH

1915 International Harvester..................................................................................James Barnes, Lawrenceville, PA

1917 Oakland.....................................................................................................................Andy Wise, Ellendale, DE

1924 Ford....................................................................................................Marshall Van Winkle III, New Bern, NC

1925 Ford.............................................................................................................David W. Koons, Sr., Lebanon, PA

1926 Chrysler.........................................................................................................Robert H. Burchill, Jefferson, MD

1928 Dodge Brothers........................................................................................Kimberly Strauss, Richlandtown, PA

1930 Reo.................................................................................................................Robert A. Keller, Mountville, PA

1930 Ford.......................................................................................................................Ken Menge, Quarryville, PA

1930 Ford.................................................................................................................Louis Recchilongo, Malvern, PA

1933 Chevrolet..................................................................................................Robert A. Beers, Mechanicsburg, PA

1934 Pontiac.......................................................................................................................Jim Rogers, Freeland, PA

1934 Brewster....................................................................................................................Donald E. Weir, York, PA

1937 Packard................................................................................................................John R. Marsh, Dillsburg, PA

1937 Buick Century............................................................................................Richard H. Williams, Lancaster, PA

1939 Pontiac...................................................................................................Robert I. Hench, New Bloomfield, PA

1940 Oldsmobile...........................................................................................................William Dana, Mattituck, NY

1940 Plymouth...................................................................................................George T. Maher, West Chester, PA

1940 Ford........................................................................................................Norman R. Runk, Mechanicsburg, PA

1941 Studebaker...............................................................................................Paul A. Derosier, Northborough, MA

1941 Chevrolet............................................................................................Robert O. Grincewich, Westminster, MD

1941 Chevrolet...................................................................................................................John Simon, Lansdale, PA

1941 Buick...................................................................................................................Stanley M. Sipko, Dupont, PA

1941 Ford............................................................................................................Clifford B. Wilson, Royersford, PA

1947 Whizzer.................................................................................................................Ken Menge, Quarryville, PA

1948 Whizzer............................................................................................................Ray C. Miller, Sr., Reading, PA

1949 Ford................................................................................................................James F. Strong, Jamestown, NY

1949 Indian........................................................................................................William R. Thrush, Quakertown, PA

1949 Ford...............................................................................................................Frederick L. Toomey, Hellam, PA

1949 Plymouth..............................................................................................................Daniel Ungar, Jr., Closter, NJ

1950 Plymouth...........................................................................................................Arthur Dunlap, Sellersville, PA

1950 Dodge......................................................................................................Thomas A. Watts, Sr., Souderton, PA

1951 DeSoto............................................................................................................Galen B. Brandt, Mount Joy, PA

1951 Studebaker...................................................................................................Carl R. Breininger, Allentown, PA

1951 Henry J................................................................................................Stephen P. Carey, East Stroudsburg, PA

1951 Ford...............................................................................................................Robert O. Jephson, Mendham, NJ

1951 Chevrolet.................................................................................................James P. LoProto, Hasbrouck Hts, NJ

1952 Studebaker...............................................................................................David B. Lockard, York Springs, PA

1953 Packard................................................................................................................Jane L. Abel, The Plains, VA

1953 Chrysler....................................................................................................G. Warren Barcalow, Langhorne, PA

1953 Packard.................................................................................................Dennis R. Maurer, East Petersburg, PA

1953 Pontiac.....................................................................................................E. Walton Meyers, Jr., Baldwin, MD

1956 Buick Special.....................................................................................................Norman L. Koch, Sunbury, PA

1957 Oldsmobile.......................................................................................................Harold R. Price, Harrisburg, PA

1957 Chevrolet Bel Air..............................................................................................Richard J. Scholl, Perkasie, PA

1957 Dodge Custom Royal........................................................................................Jim Shulman, Wynnewood, PA

1958 Chevrolet......................................................................................................James H. Yiengst, Myerstown, PA

1959 Mercury Parklane........................................................................................David W. Binkley, Lewisberry, PA

1959 Edsel................................................................................................Harry C. Broderick, Jr., Myrtle Beach, SC

1959 Cadillac Special......................................................................................Saul H. Greenberg, West Chester, PA

1959 Morgan...........................................................................................................Donald R. Newell, Manheim, PA

1959 Chevrolet...............................................................................................Robert Sekelsky, Cortlandt Manor, NY

1960 Buick..................................................................................................................Hobart Hall, Great Valley, NY

1960 Cadillac.............................................................................................................Michael J. Lucas, Scranton, PA

Page 25 of 25

1961 Plymouth..........................................................................................................Ronald E. Fox, Lock Haven, PA

1962 Chevrolet Impala..............................................................................................Thomas C. Orr, Jr., Altoona, PA

1963 Chevrolet.............................................................................................................Ralph Crowther, Jr., Paoli, PA

1963 Mercury..................................................................................................Myron L. Fiester, Jr., Hughesville, PA

1963 Ford Falcon...............................................................................................................Robert Gomez, Exton, PA

1963 Lincoln Continental.....................................................................................Kerry E. Griffin, Burtonsville, MD

1963 Chevrolet........................................................................................................Edward A. LoPinto, Palmyra, PA

1963 Chevrolet Impala............................................................................................Charles E. Parmer, Manheim, PA

1964 Buick............................................................................................................Carl R. Breininger, Allentown, PA

1964 Pontiac Catalina.....................................................................................William R. Deegan, Jr., Pottstown, PA

1964 Chrysler.......................................................................................................Bruce D. Irvin, Sr., Harrisburg, PA

1965 Rambler.............................................................................................................Lee Greenawalt, Lancaster, PA

1965 Rambler...........................................................................................................Karen Johnson, Spencerport, NY

1965 Ford Galaxie 500.......................................................................................Lawrence Noorman, Hawthorne, NJ

1965 Chevrolet Corvair.................................................................................................Paul D. Shade, Hamburg, PA

1966 Ford....................................................................................................................Francis R. Fera, Leesburg, VA

1966 Chrysler Newport......................................................................................William P. Hatton, Jr., Dunellen, NJ

1966 Pontiac LeMans....................................................................................Joseph T. Herbert, West Wyoming, PA

1966 Buick Riviera GS...............................................................................................................John Hess, York, PA

1966 Oldsmobile..................................................................................................G. Joseph Prechtel, Baltimore, MD

1966 Buick..........................................................................................................Alan M. Sandler, Reisterstown, MD

1967 Buick.........................................................................................................Joseph D. Bell, Jr., Cedar Grove, NJ

1967 Ford Galaxie.........................................................................................................Bruce Knott, Finksburg, MD

1967 AMC Marlin................................................................................................Louis J. Lerda, Chambersburg, PA

1967 Ford Mustang.................................................................................................Caroline L. Rahn, Pennsburg, PA

1967 Plymouth....................................................................................................Michael J. Whitson, Harrisburg, PA

1967 Alfa Romeo.....................................................................................................Harold L. Wyman, Fairfield, PA

1968 Buick....................................................................................................Peter D. Burgess, Newtown Square, PA

1968 Plymouth...........................................................................................................Warren B. Clark, Nazareth, PA

1968 Ford Thunderbird.........................................................................................William M. Dilick, Kittanning, PA

1968 Plymouth...........................................................................................................Warren L. Sholly, Lebanon, PA

1970 Ford Thunderbird...........................................................................................Stephen B. Manger, Hanover, PA

1972 Chevrolet...................................................................................................Harry L. Beltz, Jr., Wernersville, PA

1972 AMC Matador.....................................................................................................John S. Tosh, Rising Sun, MD

1973 Ford.......................................................................................................................Stephen Mierz, Branford, CT

1973 International.....................................................................................................Kenneth Moore, Harrisburg, PA

1973 Buick..................................................................................................................Glenn R. Palmer, Ludlow, MA

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Silverghost,

Many folks have an eye only for the POP of a fully restored, chrome glinting show vehicle. Think of them as human crows that are attracted to shiny things. People like that are in pretty much every hobby there is. If it doesn't dazzel them they are not interested.

But there are folks, just like you, that appreciate the survivors and drivers. In addition to the HPOF class the DPC class is growing by leaps and bounds. My husband Bill has served on that team quite a bit in the past couple of years. His comment at every show is that he saw vehicles that could have easily taken home a First Place trophy. He has close to 100 credits (he will get his 100th pin this year) so he has looked at a lot of vehicles to earn those. The owners of the vehicles good enough to get trophies if they were in a judged class would rather sit back and relax and be in the DPC class.

Take a look at the on-line Judges Guidelines and see if you would like to put some of your vehicles into the HPOF or DPC classes. Don't be upset if people make comments or walk right by. They are the crows. :rolleyes: Enjoy the folks that stop and talk and ask about your vehicle in the condtion it is in.

Edited by Shop Rat
Correct when Bill will get his 100th pin. (see edit history)

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I just thought of something that might attract people like me to a AACA type show,along with "the show" have a cruise in for people like me to show off their slightly modified or drivers in another lot so we can attend but still be part of the action. Of course no awards and then everyone can mingle and have a good time,the people who are serious in showing and those like me that are not can get togather and enjoy looking at each others vehicles.

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Well stated, Matt.

Like others I highly doubt we can satisfy the majority. Constant negative comments about a hobby (or club in this case) would have "driven" me to find another 56 years ago and I am 63 now.

Tried golf at one time and immediately reverted back to the AACA which is the finest organization within the true meaning of the old car hobby.

Regards,

Peter.

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Peter:

I am in no way knocking the AACA~~~

There was a time not very long ago that AACA show events did not embrace the Survivor?Driver cars such as the type we have always owned.

The negative comments that we got on our urestored survivor Brass-Era cars came from spectators~~~

Not necessarly AACA members/car collectors themselves .

Usually I find that the biggest critics of our cars are the folks who do not own any collector cars; and are NOT AACA members !

We just grew tired of all the negative comments that we received at ALL car shows~~~

Not necessarily AACA events.

Now that AACA has embraced the Early Survivor/Driver type cars for what they represent I am now considering re-joining the AACA !

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