Judging standards

[junkyardjeff]

Reading all the posts about judging and points makes me glad I am not a judge or will never have a show car,from what I can see it looks like its a hassle on both sides and a headache I can live without.

[Shop Rat]

Reading all the posts about judging and points makes me glad I am not a judge or will never have a show car,from what I can see it looks like its a hassle on both sides and a headache I can live without.

Judging or showing isn't for everyone and that is perfectly okay.

[junkyardjeff]

You guys can get the high blood pressure and go prematurely gray and all the other ills from all the worrying about points and judging as I happily drive my old cars. :)

[MCHinson]

junkyardjeff,

A 30 year law enforcement career gave me high blood pressure and gray hair. Showing cars, judging cars, and touring with the same cars that I show is what I do for fun. There is no reason why you can't show a car and drive the heck out of it too. You just have to be willing to regularly work to maintain the car.

Showing cars is not for everybody, but for those who enjoy it, it is a lot of fun. Most of the fun is the challenge to work on the car to keep it in pristine condition. The fun is in the garage, not just the show field. Different people have different ideas about how they want to enjoy the hobby.

[GrayCav56]

junkyardjeff,

I have to echo what Matt says. You seem like a pretty level headed fella who might actually enjoy the show circuit. I like it when I get to "talk cars" with folks in my particular class and I learn so much more than I do online or by reading books (although they are helpful as well.)

You get to meet some folks who have a lot of disposible income who wrote a lot of checks for their restoration and you meet those who did most if not all of the work themselves. I suppose the majority fall somewhere in the middle. I think the uniting thing is that they all want to continually improve their vehicles towards that "factory fresh" goal.

Showing does NOT mean you have to turn your car into a museum piece. Far from it! OK, maybe some megabuck rides do live their life going from climate controlled garage to air ride trailer to showfield, but my cars, like yours, are DRIVEN. I probably put close to a thousand miles a year on my Corvette, and that didn't keep me from getting my Senior at Hershey against some other beautiful machines. I LOVE caring for my car after a nice run, the same way a thoroughbred horse is maintained after a workout.

[Guest billybird]

junkyardjeff: There is a very simple formula for winning in the AACA. Correct research, correct documentation, correct parts and correct workmanship. = win. There was a time I feared AACA competition because of things like I have read on this thread. Now, after 7 Grand National Senior awards, I know the above formula will work. You should try it. It becomes addictive!

[DAVE A]

I can tell you for sure that not one instructor I have be instructed by, be they for judging school or a CJE, has EVER had the "gotcha" mentality. We are told to be thorough but to not nit pick the vehicles.

Mark;

Having just gone through the beginnings of the judging process last year (for the exact reason stated above, to learn how to better prepare my cars for AACA shows) , I can tell you that the instructor I had told us specifically that if we are to err, it is to be on the side of the owner!!! If you think about it, it really makes sense. People work hard on their cars, they win awards, they are happy, they encourage more new members, organization grows and prospers. The opposite makes no sense from any organization's point of view. There is a set of basic standards that judges are entrusted to make sure a car is up to before an award is granted. There is no "out to get anyone" mentality that I have seen. People are human and mistakes are made sometimes. Learn from them and go to the next show so armed and ready to support the areas where mistakes were made. Good luck!!!

[msmazcol]

The awards are an extra pat on the back for a vehicle well done!

[Shop Rat]

I love walking away from a well done vehicle with very few to no deductions taken. I admit I am tough on judging but only to the extent of being fair to one and all. If your vehicle is in a class I am Team Captain for or a Field Judge for I will make every effort to do the job to the best of my ability.

[junkyardjeff]

I want no part of a show car and there is no way I would consider chasing points fun,I build my cars the way I want it not the way the manufacture built it so I prefer the cruise ins or the spectator judging shows. I would rather be taking a trip in my car then sitting around a show all day looking at the same people and cars,actually I would rather be in a junkyard getting parts then sitting around all day at a show. A day at the junkyard or swapmeet is better then a day at a car show as it would be way more productive and more fun for me. :):)

[msmazcol]

Restoration- A return of something to a former, original, normal, or unimpaired condition.

Only see a few like that at my local cruise.

Not once have I walked an AACA show field and NOT been impressed.

[Shop Rat]

There are folks that come to AACA Meets to catch up with friends as much as they are there for the vehicles.

I know that there are those that "sweat bullets" over the judging. But in the end it is the beauty of the vehicles and fun with friends old and new that really makes the time enjoyable. If a trophy is won then all the better.

There is plenty of room in the "old car hobby" for everyone to enjoy their vehicles the way they want to. There are lots of "car clubs" to cater to whatever someone's way of enjoying them is.

Some clubs are strict in their rules, like the AACA is, to preserve the mission of the club.

And some are more subjective, like a club local to where we are. They accept any kind of vehicle someone has and they do not have a national club that oversees their club. They are free to make whatever rules they decide on.

The rub comes in when one person or group tries to tell someone else what they should do with their vehicle. If you paid for it do what you want with it.

[Guest Silverghost]

I only wish there were more driver & original unrestored "Survivor" style cars attending AACA show events as this is what we have owned for decades.

I do not have any of my cars judged as they are not "Show Cars"

.

I do attend AACA shows myself~~~

But not WITH my cars .

I feel somewhat out of place with my old Brass-Era & Classic cars in a field dominated by mostly "Show Cars"

I had gotten negative comments in the distant past from folks asking~~~

"When are you going to restore or re-paint your car ?"

"Why are you here; your car is not a Show Car ?"

"Your car does not belong here !"

I have two other friends who have had the very same comments made on their driver cars.

If more Driver & "Survivor" type cars actually attended the AACA shows, and were actually accepted by the general public attending these shows I would actually re-join the AACA again & display our many Brass-Era Antiques & Classics !

In the early days of the AACA many cars at these shows were new barn-finds and "Survivor Drivers".

As it is now~~~

I just attend as a spectator !

This is one BIG reason we dropped-out of the AACA !

Edited January 20, 2011 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

Brad,

I don't know what AACA Meets you have attended, but it is my understanding that HPOF (Historic Preservation of Original Features) is the fastest growing class in AACA. There have been huge numbers of HPOF cars at all of the AACA Meets that I have been to in the last several years.

HPOF is exactly the type of "survivor" cars you are talking about!

[Guest Silverghost]

Matt:

This may now be the case~~~

now today~~~

But in the past these sort of "Survivor Driver" cars were really not well accepted at all !

This chased my Father & I away from AACA & showing our Antique & Classics.

We have stayed on the outside fringe of the old car hobby ever since !

For myself 55 years !

[MCHinson]

Brad, I don't know when you stopped attending, but for example,

Here is the list of HPOF cars from the last meet of 2010 in Hershey... I am relatively sure that no other class of vehicles had this many cars in it.

Class HPOF

Historic Preservation

1913 Cartercar.......................................................................................................Michael H. Witt, Winchester, VA

1917 Duplex.................................................................................................Donald R. Barlup, New Bloomfield, PA

1919 Oakland..........................................................................................................Kenneth Roach, Chesapeake, VA

1924 Ford.............................................................................................................George W. Kaiser, Collingdale, PA

Page 23 of 25

1926 Auto Red Bug..................................................................................................Thomas H. Ross, St Davids, PA

1927 Nash....................................................................................................Gustav W. Ludwig, Blmngton Spgs, TN

1929 Lincoln..............................................................................................................Robert W. Berry, Fairlawn, OH

1929 Ford..........................................................................................................................Robert Luczun, Clifton, NJ

1929 Chevrolet............................................................................................................Charles D. Sutton, Indiana, PA

1930 Ford..................................................................................................................Keith A. Ernst, Orwigsburg, PA

1930 Ford.................................................................................................................Wesley G. Roll, Bloomsbury, NJ

1931 Pierce Arrow........................................................................................................J. M. Hagans, Columbus, OH

1936 Ford.....................................................................................................................John T. Magee, Lancaster, PA

1937 Cadillac..................................................................................................................Walter Grace, Limekiln, PA

1937 Packard.........................................................................................................Michael Manherz, Thurmont, MD

1937 Ford................................................................................................................Thomas L. Martin, Strasburg, PA

1937 Desoto.................................................................................................................Matt Staack, Coopersburg, PA

1941 Willys..........................................................................................................Gary G. McDonell, Allentown, PA

1941 Packard...........................................................................................................George M. Simone, Sterling, CT

1942 BSA...............................................................................................................Richard N. Carnegie, Elkton, MD

1947 Dodge.............................................................................................................Chris J. Bamford, Edmonton, AB

1948 Nash................................................................................................................Timothy Kramer, Thorndale, PA

1952 Chevrolet...............................................................................................................Chad Lilly, Beaver Falls, PA

1953 Mercury......................................................................................................Edward I. Ahrens, West Valley, NY

1954 Chevrolet.............................................................................................Donald R. Barlup, New Bloomfield, PA

1955 Packard.................................................................................................................Jason W. Gehring, Bath, OH

1955 MG.......................................................................................................Louis I. Mandich, Jr., Lincoln Univ, PA

1956 Chevrolet...........................................................................................................Brian T. Evans, Harrisburg, PA

1957 Mercedes-Benz.....................................................................................Nicholas G. Perakis, West Chester, PA

1957 Ford....................................................................................................................Stephen Schmidt, Wyckoff, NJ

1957 Cadillac................................................................................................................Stuart Slavin, Harrisburg, PA

1957 Mercury...........................................................................................................Robert E. Stoudt, Fleetwood, PA

1958 Edsel..................................................................................................................Matt Dorschug, Burlington, NJ

1958 Rambler................................................................................................Bruce W. Ritchie, Egg Harbor Twp, NJ

1959 Chevrolet..................................................................................................................Stanley Groy, Palmyra, PA

1959 Vespa........................................................................................................Philip D. Jamison, West Chester, PA

1960 Rambler........................................................................................................ AACA Museum Inc, Hershey, PA

1960 Cadillac.............................................................................................................Jay Hirsch, Tomkins Cove, NY

1960 Studebaker.....................................................................................Richard Schickling, Plymouth Meeting, PA

1962 Chevrolet Corvair.............................................................................................Ken Dubanowich, Denville, NJ

1962 Chrysler..........................................................................................................Linda Seibert, Elizabethtown, PA

1964 Lincoln.................................................................................................O. P. Wenderoth, Jr., Reisterstown, MD

1966 Mercury........................................................................................................ AACA Museum Inc, Hershey, PA

1967 Buick..................................................................................................................Sharon H. Kerr, Hamburg, NY

1967 Ford.................................................................................................................Lee P. Maitland, Drexel Hill, PA

1967 Ford Shelby Mustang...........................................................................................Rick L. Watt, Boyertown, PA

1967 AMC........................................................................................................................Dave Williams, Media, PA

1969 Dodge..................................................................................................................Stanley M. Sipko, Dupont, PA

1969 Chevrolet.......................................................................................................George F. Spicka, Baltimore, MD

1970 Chevrolet........................................................................................................Richard Michel, Stroudsburg, PA

1970 Cadillac...............................................................................................................Donald J. Miller, Malvern, PA

1970 Honda............................................................................................................W. Michael Ulrich, Lancaster, PA

1972 Datsun...................................................................................................................Walter Miller, Syracuse, NY

1972 Chrysler.................................................................................................................Morris Sarnoff, Vineland, NJ

1973 Pontiac...................................................................................................................James M. Beck, Temple, PA

1973 Chevrolet............................................................................................Donald D. Bock, Jr., Woolwich Twp, NJ

1974 Chevrolet.................................................................................................................Paul T. Bachman, York, PA

1974 Cadillac.............................................................................................................Daniel T. Espy, Essex Fells, NJ

1974 Chevrolet.......................................................................................................William G. West, Deep River, CT

1975 Cadillac..............................................................................................................Edward F. Hainke, Lusby, MD

Page 24 of 25

1975 Cadillac......................................................................................................Phyllis G. Hickernell, Richland, PA

Repeat Historic Preservation

1914 International.......................................................................................................Richard B. Suhr, Norwalk, OH

1915 International Harvester..................................................................................James Barnes, Lawrenceville, PA

1917 Oakland.....................................................................................................................Andy Wise, Ellendale, DE

1924 Ford....................................................................................................Marshall Van Winkle III, New Bern, NC

1925 Ford.............................................................................................................David W. Koons, Sr., Lebanon, PA

1926 Chrysler.........................................................................................................Robert H. Burchill, Jefferson, MD

1928 Dodge Brothers........................................................................................Kimberly Strauss, Richlandtown, PA

1930 Reo.................................................................................................................Robert A. Keller, Mountville, PA

1930 Ford.......................................................................................................................Ken Menge, Quarryville, PA

1930 Ford.................................................................................................................Louis Recchilongo, Malvern, PA

1933 Chevrolet..................................................................................................Robert A. Beers, Mechanicsburg, PA

1934 Pontiac.......................................................................................................................Jim Rogers, Freeland, PA

1934 Brewster....................................................................................................................Donald E. Weir, York, PA

1937 Packard................................................................................................................John R. Marsh, Dillsburg, PA

1937 Buick Century............................................................................................Richard H. Williams, Lancaster, PA

1939 Pontiac...................................................................................................Robert I. Hench, New Bloomfield, PA

1940 Oldsmobile...........................................................................................................William Dana, Mattituck, NY

1940 Plymouth...................................................................................................George T. Maher, West Chester, PA

1940 Ford........................................................................................................Norman R. Runk, Mechanicsburg, PA

1941 Studebaker...............................................................................................Paul A. Derosier, Northborough, MA

1941 Chevrolet............................................................................................Robert O. Grincewich, Westminster, MD

1941 Chevrolet...................................................................................................................John Simon, Lansdale, PA

1941 Buick...................................................................................................................Stanley M. Sipko, Dupont, PA

1941 Ford............................................................................................................Clifford B. Wilson, Royersford, PA

1947 Whizzer.................................................................................................................Ken Menge, Quarryville, PA

1948 Whizzer............................................................................................................Ray C. Miller, Sr., Reading, PA

1949 Ford................................................................................................................James F. Strong, Jamestown, NY

1949 Indian........................................................................................................William R. Thrush, Quakertown, PA

1949 Ford...............................................................................................................Frederick L. Toomey, Hellam, PA

1949 Plymouth..............................................................................................................Daniel Ungar, Jr., Closter, NJ

1950 Plymouth...........................................................................................................Arthur Dunlap, Sellersville, PA

1950 Dodge......................................................................................................Thomas A. Watts, Sr., Souderton, PA

1951 DeSoto............................................................................................................Galen B. Brandt, Mount Joy, PA

1951 Studebaker...................................................................................................Carl R. Breininger, Allentown, PA

1951 Henry J................................................................................................Stephen P. Carey, East Stroudsburg, PA

1951 Ford...............................................................................................................Robert O. Jephson, Mendham, NJ

1951 Chevrolet.................................................................................................James P. LoProto, Hasbrouck Hts, NJ

1952 Studebaker...............................................................................................David B. Lockard, York Springs, PA

1953 Packard................................................................................................................Jane L. Abel, The Plains, VA

1953 Chrysler....................................................................................................G. Warren Barcalow, Langhorne, PA

1953 Packard.................................................................................................Dennis R. Maurer, East Petersburg, PA

1953 Pontiac.....................................................................................................E. Walton Meyers, Jr., Baldwin, MD

1956 Buick Special.....................................................................................................Norman L. Koch, Sunbury, PA

1957 Oldsmobile.......................................................................................................Harold R. Price, Harrisburg, PA

1957 Chevrolet Bel Air..............................................................................................Richard J. Scholl, Perkasie, PA

1957 Dodge Custom Royal........................................................................................Jim Shulman, Wynnewood, PA

1958 Chevrolet......................................................................................................James H. Yiengst, Myerstown, PA

1959 Mercury Parklane........................................................................................David W. Binkley, Lewisberry, PA

1959 Edsel................................................................................................Harry C. Broderick, Jr., Myrtle Beach, SC

1959 Cadillac Special......................................................................................Saul H. Greenberg, West Chester, PA

1959 Morgan...........................................................................................................Donald R. Newell, Manheim, PA

1959 Chevrolet...............................................................................................Robert Sekelsky, Cortlandt Manor, NY

1960 Buick..................................................................................................................Hobart Hall, Great Valley, NY

1960 Cadillac.............................................................................................................Michael J. Lucas, Scranton, PA

Page 25 of 25

1961 Plymouth..........................................................................................................Ronald E. Fox, Lock Haven, PA

1962 Chevrolet Impala..............................................................................................Thomas C. Orr, Jr., Altoona, PA

1963 Chevrolet.............................................................................................................Ralph Crowther, Jr., Paoli, PA

1963 Mercury..................................................................................................Myron L. Fiester, Jr., Hughesville, PA

1963 Ford Falcon...............................................................................................................Robert Gomez, Exton, PA

1963 Lincoln Continental.....................................................................................Kerry E. Griffin, Burtonsville, MD

1963 Chevrolet........................................................................................................Edward A. LoPinto, Palmyra, PA

1963 Chevrolet Impala............................................................................................Charles E. Parmer, Manheim, PA

1964 Buick............................................................................................................Carl R. Breininger, Allentown, PA

1964 Pontiac Catalina.....................................................................................William R. Deegan, Jr., Pottstown, PA

1964 Chrysler.......................................................................................................Bruce D. Irvin, Sr., Harrisburg, PA

1965 Rambler.............................................................................................................Lee Greenawalt, Lancaster, PA

1965 Rambler...........................................................................................................Karen Johnson, Spencerport, NY

1965 Ford Galaxie 500.......................................................................................Lawrence Noorman, Hawthorne, NJ

1965 Chevrolet Corvair.................................................................................................Paul D. Shade, Hamburg, PA

1966 Ford....................................................................................................................Francis R. Fera, Leesburg, VA

1966 Chrysler Newport......................................................................................William P. Hatton, Jr., Dunellen, NJ

1966 Pontiac LeMans....................................................................................Joseph T. Herbert, West Wyoming, PA

1966 Buick Riviera GS...............................................................................................................John Hess, York, PA

1966 Oldsmobile..................................................................................................G. Joseph Prechtel, Baltimore, MD

1966 Buick..........................................................................................................Alan M. Sandler, Reisterstown, MD

1967 Buick.........................................................................................................Joseph D. Bell, Jr., Cedar Grove, NJ

1967 Ford Galaxie.........................................................................................................Bruce Knott, Finksburg, MD

1967 AMC Marlin................................................................................................Louis J. Lerda, Chambersburg, PA

1967 Ford Mustang.................................................................................................Caroline L. Rahn, Pennsburg, PA

1967 Plymouth....................................................................................................Michael J. Whitson, Harrisburg, PA

1967 Alfa Romeo.....................................................................................................Harold L. Wyman, Fairfield, PA

1968 Buick....................................................................................................Peter D. Burgess, Newtown Square, PA

1968 Plymouth...........................................................................................................Warren B. Clark, Nazareth, PA

1968 Ford Thunderbird.........................................................................................William M. Dilick, Kittanning, PA

1968 Plymouth...........................................................................................................Warren L. Sholly, Lebanon, PA

1970 Ford Thunderbird...........................................................................................Stephen B. Manger, Hanover, PA

1972 Chevrolet...................................................................................................Harry L. Beltz, Jr., Wernersville, PA

1972 AMC Matador.....................................................................................................John S. Tosh, Rising Sun, MD

1973 Ford.......................................................................................................................Stephen Mierz, Branford, CT

1973 International.....................................................................................................Kenneth Moore, Harrisburg, PA

1973 Buick..................................................................................................................Glenn R. Palmer, Ludlow, MA

[Shop Rat]

Silverghost,

Many folks have an eye only for the POP of a fully restored, chrome glinting show vehicle. Think of them as human crows that are attracted to shiny things. People like that are in pretty much every hobby there is. If it doesn't dazzel them they are not interested.

But there are folks, just like you, that appreciate the survivors and drivers. In addition to the HPOF class the DPC class is growing by leaps and bounds. My husband Bill has served on that team quite a bit in the past couple of years. His comment at every show is that he saw vehicles that could have easily taken home a First Place trophy. He has close to 100 credits (he will get his 100th pin this year) so he has looked at a lot of vehicles to earn those. The owners of the vehicles good enough to get trophies if they were in a judged class would rather sit back and relax and be in the DPC class.

Take a look at the on-line Judges Guidelines and see if you would like to put some of your vehicles into the HPOF or DPC classes. Don't be upset if people make comments or walk right by. They are the crows. Enjoy the folks that stop and talk and ask about your vehicle in the condtion it is in.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Shop Rat
Correct when Bill will get his 100th pin. (see edit history)

[junkyardjeff]

I just thought of something that might attract people like me to a AACA type show,along with "the show" have a cruise in for people like me to show off their slightly modified or drivers in another lot so we can attend but still be part of the action. Of course no awards and then everyone can mingle and have a good time,the people who are serious in showing and those like me that are not can get togather and enjoy looking at each others vehicles.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Well stated, Matt.

Like others I highly doubt we can satisfy the majority. Constant negative comments about a hobby (or club in this case) would have "driven" me to find another 56 years ago and I am 63 now.

Tried golf at one time and immediately reverted back to the AACA which is the finest organization within the true meaning of the old car hobby.

Regards,

Peter.

[Guest Silverghost]

Peter:

I am in no way knocking the AACA~~~

There was a time not very long ago that AACA show events did not embrace the Survivor?Driver cars such as the type we have always owned.

The negative comments that we got on our urestored survivor Brass-Era cars came from spectators~~~

Not necessarly AACA members/car collectors themselves .

Usually I find that the biggest critics of our cars are the folks who do not own any collector cars; and are NOT AACA members !

We just grew tired of all the negative comments that we received at ALL car shows~~~

Not necessarily AACA events.

Now that AACA has embraced the Early Survivor/Driver type cars for what they represent I am now considering re-joining the AACA !

[junkyardjeff]

I have noticed alot of people think when you have a older vehicle it has to be show quality and I think it was from people who did not own one like what was mentioned above,if they only knew what was involved to tear one completely apart and then put it back togather they would appriciate those who wish not to and just drive them. After having my 37 apart for many years I will never get another project that requires a frame off.

[Restorer32]

That's the thing about the antique car hobby, there is room for everybody. AACA judges many hundreds (thousands?) of vehicles each year so obviously many many people do enjoy restoring and showing. The reality is there are very few vehicles that are roadworthy as found. Most need at least some "restoration" to be safe and reliable.

[TG57Roadmaster]

How long has it been, 10 years or so, since the Driver Participation Class was created? I have thoroughly enjoyed showing the Buick there, since it required too many replacement/maintenance items to qualify for HPOF. Prior to DPC's creation (and still an option), is to enjoy a show with a car by simply checking off the Do Not Judge box on the scoring sheet. When the Buick's interior was ratty, prior to its re-do, there were moments of embarassment (more in my mind), but more encouragement than castigation.

We have DPC, HPOF and Class Judged cars, show in those classes every year, so I don't follow how there isn't a place for just about anything, as long as it's not modified. It's my two cents worth,

but there is little reason, and less rationale, for not enjoying a show with your car.

Hasn't been for years.

TG

[Shop Rat]

As I understand it a long time friend of mine, C.C. Wheeler, is the one behind the formation of the DPC class. I have known him, and his wife Alice, for many years and judged with both of them on numerous occasions. Two of the nicest folks you could ever meet.

[Ron Green]

I just thought of something that might attract people like me to a AACA type show,along with "the show" have a cruise in for people like me to show off their slightly modified or drivers in another lot so we can attend but still be part of the action. Of course no awards and then everyone can mingle and have a good time,the people who are serious in showing and those like me that are not can get togather and enjoy looking at each others vehicles.

This is already in place. When filling out your meet registration check the "do not judge". You get to park with similar vehicles and don't have to worry about judging or awards.

[Dynaflash8]

Matthew you are so correct, you can show'em and drive'em. The blue car I pictue here was finished in 1981, in lacquer, won a Grand National 1st in 1982, a Grand National Senior in 2000, and has been driven well over 10,000 miles since 1981. It's been on Glidden Tour, Founders Tour, Sentimental Tour(s), Divisional Tours and everything in-between. At the last National Meet where I took it, it still got a Preservation. All you have to do is be careful to drive your show car and still win. I also have a DPC car, the 69 Electra, and am finishing my wife's show car, the 71 Riviera. In AACA you can do it all within reason. Cruise-In's here in my part of Florida mostly consist of very highly modified cars, and they do not do well in DPC, and I rarely attend one, but if your car is slightly modified, or updated you can show in DPC and do well. I've been active in AACA since 1962, starting with that same blue car there. I've found nothing better, ever, wherre I could get the full range of enjoyment out of this hobby. And, I've had many different cars judged in those years, winners and losers. I've also been a Judge since 1970. There is a place in AACA for most interests and I'm proud to have been a part of most facits of the Club over the last 49 years. Susan and Matt are you going to help us judge at Homestead? Come on down!!~

[junkyardjeff]

I could probably sneek my 37 in the DPC class since it looks stock to the untrained eye except for the interior which I hope to get done this winter,one would have to crawl under it to see the disc brakes,T-5 tans and 8 inch Ford rear end. Open the hood and one will see a 57 235 made to look as much like a 216 as I could.

[Shop Rat]

Here are the guidelines for the DPC class from the 2010 Judging Guidelines, pages 52 and 53. Once the 2011 Guidelines are posted check back for any changes.

2. DRIVER PARTICIPATION CLASS (DPC)

The AACA Board of Directors in 2000

established DPC to promote the showing

and driving of antique vehicles which are

not intended by their owners to be show

vehicles and are described as "Drivers."

This class is for vehicles 25 years of age or

older that have not obtained a national first

prize. (A vehicle with national awards is

eligible for DPC only if the awards - other

than 2nd or 3rd Junior - are turned into

AACA Headquarters.) This is a non-competitive

class and will not be point judged,

but vehicles will be certified upon passing

a visual inspection. The shaded areas

on the DPC evaluation form must be

completed by the vehicle owner before

the vehicle can be certified. Certification

will be based on vehicle components that

have the same appearance as when the

vehicle was manufactured and the overall

condition of the vehicle in general appears

acceptable. The exterior/ interior/engine/

chassis components must appear period

correct per the original manufacturer. The

following are exceptions that will not disqualify

the vehicle: seat belts, seat coverings,

turn signals, stop lights, sealed

beam/halogen headlights, radial tires,

alloy wheels of the same era and/or same

vehicle manufacturer, radio upgrades,

electrical upgrades, brake upgrades (bolt

on), steering upgrades (bolt on), air conditioning,

overdrive system and altered

exhausts. A DPC badge will be issued

to each vehicle upon certification and a

participation award will be given at certification

and at each subsequent meet for

attendance. After five participation awards

are received, the accompanying participation

cards should be completed and mailed

to AACA Headquarters. A mounting board

will be mailed from AACA Headquarters after

confirmation of the five participation awards. No

vehicle will be re-certified if it is not displaying

the DPC badge. A DPC certified vehicle

that is significantly modified will lose its’ DPC

certification. DPC certification remains with the

vehicle even if there is a change of ownership.

(see Attachment 6 - DPC Evaluation Form -

page 49).

[buick5563]

I could probably sneek my 37 in the DPC class since it looks stock to the untrained eye except for the interior which I hope to get done this winter,one would have to crawl under it to see the disc brakes,T-5 tans and 8 inch Ford rear end. Open the hood and one will see a 57 235 made to look as much like a 216 as I could.

Trying to do this would just lead to your frustration, and give you further justification to say things like "I would never have my car judged", or any of the other things you have mentioned in this thread.

[junkyardjeff]

It was mentioned in a previous post the DPC class was not judged.

[Dynaflash8]

If you had a 350V8 in there junkyardjeff, the car would be disqualified. The inline 6 might not stand out; hard to say. I've had a basically original 66 Chrysler in DPC at one time. It wasn't good enough to judge, but too much stuff had been done in a mediocre way for it to be HPOF. I've never tried a car that had any kind of significant modifications in DPC. The cars aren't judge, but evaluated along the lines that Susan has posted above.

[junkyardjeff]

I will stay at the spectator judged shows if I enter it in a show where there is any judging,it would be nice if clubs like the AACA would have like a cruise in at the shows so us with vehicles out of their specifications could park our cars and go over and look at theirs.

[Shop Rat]

That is why I posted the rules straight from the Judges Guidelines. From what has been said the car would not qualify and it would be a trip for nothing.

I honestly have tried and tried to understand why you want to show at an AACA Meet when you have posted that you don't want to do what has to be done to do so. It is your right to do whatever you want to with your vehicles. But if they don't qualify under the rules of the AACA then what point is there in trying to wedge a square peg into a round hole? It would be just as fruitless for me and my husband to try to wrangle a way to show our 1974 Mercedes Benz 450SL in a meet for Rolls Royces only.

Trying to slip a vehicle in that will be disqualified is a waste of your time and money. You would be better off to look at the list of AACA Meets and drive your vehicle of choice to one and park as close as you can and enjoy the meet and then pull out a chair and talk with those that pass by and show an interest in the vehicle you brought.

Surely there are clubs and shows that cater to the kind of vehicles that you have and would welcome you and your vehicle.

[Shop Rat]

I will stay at the spectator judged shows if I enter it in a show where there is any judging,it would be nice if clubs like the AACA would have like a cruise in at the shows so us with vehicles out of their specifications could park our cars and go over and look at theirs.

Many Regions and Chapters have just enough folks willing to work a show/meet so adding a cruise-in would be difficult. You might have luck approaching another club in the same area to put on a cruise-in or even a separate show close by.

Our Region used to hold a local show, the local Corvette club had a show on the same lots we were on and we let them cross register in our show if the car qualified under AACA rules. Later the Golden Oldies street-rod club put on a show in another section of the lot. They let our members cross register in their show if they wanted to.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Shop Rat
type-o (see edit history)

[buick5563]

Jeff,

There is a big difference in People's Choice Awards (spectator judging?) and judged car shows. I wouldn't personally know the difference between years of straight six engines in a marque I am not familiar with, but anybody can tell disc brakes or a Ford eight inch rear end.

It has been said that judges don't have a "Gotcha" attitude, but you can't have a "let me try to slip this by" attitude when it comes to a RESTORATION based club.

[junkyardjeff]

I guess I am stuck in the spectator parking and nothing closer,I am getting lazy in my old age and dont want to park far away from the event. We do have a swapmeet that has a small show that I enter so I wont have to park way out in the general parking that sometimes becomes a dust bowl so whatever you park out there requires a wash after you get home,when I can park close to the action I can keep a cooler full of refreshments and something to eat so I wont have to buy thet over priced show food and drinks.

[junkyardjeff]

Instead of a cruise in along with a show a old car only spectator parking would be nice,I hate to park any of my old cars out in the spectator parking due to people opening the doors into cars and the kids that cant keep their hands off anything,its bad enough in the shows with all the kids and parents with the strollers and that way the people who drive a old car to a show and do not want to enter it could keep a watch on their vehicle. Maybe its just a cruise in thing with all the strollers and kids that do not mind but even though my vehicles are drivers I try to keep them out of the spectator parking when I can.

[Shop Rat]

Instead of a cruise in along with a show a old car only spectator parking would be nice,.....

Now there is an idea with merit. We also do not like to park any of our old cars where they could be abused. And we have seen it happen.

Sadly one of our own Region members decided it was okay to lean against our month old paint job on our first antique car, a 1958 Chevy Biscayne that we were only the second owners of. This guy is wealthy and owns several totally restored MGs. We thought he was a nice guy....until that day..... :mad:

The lady he was talking to was also leaning on our car. I asked very politely for them to please not do that. He had the gall to tell me, "We won't scratch it".

My next comment was, "It is my car, get your a**es off of it." They moved.

It should never have happened in the first place. He would have been livid if anyone had done the same to one of his MGs.

It is all about respect for one's self and what belongs to others. Sadly, too many folks have neither one.

[MCHinson]

Since I have already been threatened once in this thread, what have I got to lose...

I think that it would be a bad idea to designate any type of special parking at an AACA event for any "old cars" that do not qualify for inclusion in the AACA Meet. Simply put, bring your AACA eligible car and participate in the meet. If you are driving something that does not qualify for the Meet, park in spectator parking.

Why would any AACA group want to take the time and effort to set up a separate "event" which requires additional planning and manpower as a drain from putting on an AACA Meet? At a National AACA Meet, this would be counter productive and more trouble than it was worth.

Our local AACA Chapter show allows Modified and Street Rods as a separate class at our local shows. All of the local clubs try to attend each other's events as much as is practical. At that level, it works.

On a National Level, AACA needs to continue to focus on the AACA Misson, not try to be everything to everyone.

[ted sweet]

many use the dpc class just to get a parking spot at hershey.