Model T engine needing a makeover

[Alfa]

I am hoping to probe the collective wisdom of the forum with this one, so please bear with me.

My Model T tourer is ready for an engine rebuild (has been for the last half century) and whilst it will be straightforward to rebuild it to standard spec, and awe-inspiring 20 bhp, the opportunity presents itself to increase the output at the same time. Although i am not sure if that means increasing the maximum rpm or increasing the torque output and looking for a higher axle ratio. One of the main limitations of the T is having just two forward speeds so that on hills, you lose all momentum before being able to take low gear, at which point you are at the upper limit of the rev range. This makes for some very slow hillclimbing, although she is very nippy in town driving.

I have seen adverts for counterbalanced cranks, alloy pistons and high lift cam shafts etc. Does anyone have any experience of building an engine with any of this sort of kit?

The pistons and camshaft will, most likely, need replacement anyway and the price differential between these and standard parts is not too great. The counterbalanced crank is quite pricey however, so any decision will rest on the perceived return on investment (in horsepower).

Lizzie is also still running the standard flywheel magneto, which is massively heavy and not conjucive to high rpm.

Tin Lizzie is a standard tourer and does not benefit from two speed axle or Rocky Mountain brakes and is never going to be entering races, I think, so I must be realistic about the level of modification, in view of the lack of available retardation.

One question I do have however, is about the carb and inlet manifold, which looks laughable for gasflow. Would it work with a cam of greater lift and duration? or would it need to be changed and if so, what to? That said, I do plan to keep everything standard externally, unless there is a good reason not to.

All suggestions gratefully received...

Adam..

[Guest Silverghost]

The model "T" is what it is;

and not a powerful performance car of it's day.

You may be expecting far too much return on you upgrage invetment .

It was never designed as a high rpm high torque engine.

It's intake, carb & ignition system are by deign very limiting.

I thnk you have to ask yourself if you wish to rebuild the engine as it was stock as- new when it left the Ford plant or possibly go all out and add period correct aftermarket speed & performance equipment .

This equipment is out there.

Do you wish to enjoy it for what it really is , and was built to be or not ?

Perhapps you may be better off looking for a more powerful car of another type if you want better performance..

I for one, love the Ford Model "T: for what it was~

The low priced car of the common man & farmer that put America, and the world on wheels !

You may not be a moder "T" limited performance type of person ?

Edited October 7, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[dwollam]

The "Z" aluminum high compression head is a great addition, bumps you up to 27 horses or there abouts. The Ruckstel 2 speed rear end is almost a must if any hills in your area, just remember it provides a lower gear not an overdrive, makes it so you can down shift the rear end and stay in high in the transmission. Also have everything including the transmission balanced, makes a big difference. If yours still has iron pistons, new aluminum ones will lighten things up for better balance too. Just remember if you make it really fast that you have to stop as well!! Add some Rocky Mountain brakes or similar.

[caddyshack]

I have owned six different T's over the last 40 years, and regretably, I have been down the same path that you are considering. You can sink a lot of time and money into increasing the output of your T, but in the end what is the point. T's were made to do and serve a specific task, get from one place to another. I am not in favor of altering a stock car of any type. When you do make changes and alter the performance it is creating another classification of antique auto, altered. I know some will disagree with me, but it is just my opinion.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Guest Silverghost]

That was my point exactly !

Why not keep your "T" stock as she is and look for another antique that may be better suited for your drving conditions and performance tastes ?

By the way ~

What year is your Model "T" ?

[Alfa]

Well, I am glad I started this thread for the lively debate it is producing. Thank you all for your comments. I have been giving this some thought and when I eventually do the engine, I think it will be to standard spec. Although that may include the alloy pistons. The Camshaft may well be worn too and i know the valves are not seating correctly as the exhausts "chuff" out of the tailpipe, which is probably where the main power loss is occurring. The main problem she has at the moment is that the bottom end knocks if the ignition is fully advanced, so I have to keep it about half way on the quadrant, which naturally limits the output.

Silverghost, to answer your question. the car is a 1925 4 seat tourer, in black with a nickel radiator shell. It has unpainted wooden wheels, with the demountable rims and balloon tyres. It is a US built car, with LHD, which was restored in Norway about 40 years ago and somehow made it`s way to the UK. The car is tidy, but in no way is it show condition, but I like it that way because I can drive around and leave it parked without any worries.

Adam..

[Guest tmodelman]

A good rebuild will bring back your horses and the T will benefit. Best to keep the engine stock, the magneto with that heavy flywheel is good for maintaining torque and easy starting. Plus the low tension magneto with trembler coils is the mark of the Model T, the sound and sole of the clicking coil points. Renew the mag ring, recharge the magnets, and rebuild the coil box, wiring, and have the coils tuned and tested with a hand crank coil tester or modern StrobeoSpark test machine.

Well balanced internals will help pull a few more rpms without excess shake and vibration loss. Alum pistons a must over the cast iron. A new cam and timing gear is the best, the Bill Stipe 250 grind gives nice low end power for hill climb. A rebuilt NH carb, and clean tank and fuel lines, then check the radiator and replace it if it is not working as a good water to air heat exchanger can. With a complete overhaul of the engine, ignition, and cooling, your T will be fun to drive. Then review the running gear, drive shaft and rear axle for bearings and parking brakes to be sure you have lowered friction there.

have fun!

[Alfa]

Tmodelman

Thank you for the advice regarding magneto, camshaft and alloy pistons. This is just what i needed. I will start checking out the parts for when I finally do Tin Lizzie`s engine.

I must try to upload a picture of the old girl too.

Adam..

[Guest Silverghost]

Are there many old antique American built autos like your Ford model "T" in England ?

Were these autos shipped there when new ?

I would bet qute a few vintage autos were scrapped in the UK during WWII .

We lost many great vintage cars here in the USA during this time period !

Cheers !

[Alfa]

Hi Brad

There is a healthy following for all vintage, post-vintage and classics cars in the UK and Europe, much as there is in the US.

During the 1920s and 30s, US car makers had a good market in the UK with cars often imported in CKD form and completed locally (eg Chrysler) or "empire built" in Canada to avoid import duty (eg Buick), or else, manufactured in the UK (eg Ford T made in Manchester). These were all UK market cars so, built with right hand drive, UK lighting etc. Of course, there have beeen recent imports of collector cars too.

I suppose many cars were destroyed in the WWII scrap metal drives, but many were laid up for the duration and have survived.

My father collected pre-war US cars and I have inherited some from him, namely a Packard 533, Chrysler Airflow 6 and Model T Ford. The Packard and Chrysler are UK market cars, the Ford came from Norway in the 1970s.

I would love an edwardian steam car, such as a White or Stanley, but they are very expensive these days.

Adam..

Edited October 15, 2010 by Alfa (see edit history)