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John Gelfer

Setting up dual points

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I have specs for how the points are supposed to be set in the Delco Remy 651B distributor in my 1928 Gardner. I can't locate an antique point synchronizer tool, but I think I can improvise a degree wheel to get the right setting. Specs say is should fire at 6 degrees BTDC, and be 45 degrees apart. If I set them on the high spot of the cam, it will be fireing late, because it fires as soon as the points open, right? Do I just eyeball when they start to open, or is there an exact way to set them?

Thanks in advance for your help.

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An ohmmeter, or a test light and power source can be used to determine the exact moment of point opening. As to the synchronizing, perhaps the attached will give you some idea. Reproduced with the author's permission.

post-49751-143138303483_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for the help. The picture is too small. I tried to save it and expand it, but the resolution would not work. Could you scan it at a higher resolution, or save it as a pdf file?

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The picture isn't what you want, that's just a typical Delco dual point from a 35/36 Packard. You want the methodology in the text. If I double-click on it, it expands to an easily readable file, perhaps your system doesn't allow that. If that doesn't work, send me a PM with your email and I'll send you the file.

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How did the synchronizing go?

I have a Standard Auto Electrician's Manual that has Gardner and about every other car from 1913-1942...

One of those Syncro tools sold on ebay a month ago for $550, I don't think it is worth it for an occasional use tool, if you have a shop maybe. It is a glorified test light.... with a dial.

I have a T with a mother in-law seat, but the seat is attached to HER living room............. (It is a Speedster)

Not many Gardners out there.

Todd

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Double clicking on the embedded pic causes it to be displayed. Double clicking on the then displayed pic causes it to be enlarged and readily able to be read.

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I use a timing light on my dual point car. There is a mark on the fly wheel for each set of points. I set the lever on the steering wheel to retard and shoot the timing light at the flywheel through the floor boards. I adjust the cam lobe for one set of points and then change to the other bank of cylinders and shoot the light at the other mark on the flywheel. That one is adjusted by moving the adjustable point plate for the second set of points. Once both marks line up with the pointer.... This does involve alot of climbing in and out of the car and opening and closing the distributor, but it took about ten minutes and doesnt involve any special tool.

1927 Lincoln BTW

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Yes, but the tool allows you to set then on the bench so as long as the gears line up you are all set from the beginning,

Not all cars have duel pointers set up. Delco had their own version that the mechanics bought. I guess at that point in time it was cheaper then a timing light that not everyone had. You could set the engine set up to run without it having to run it.

I have a 1936 + 1937 Lincoln K.

Todd

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Wow, for $550 you could pick up a distributor machine. That's the easiest way to synchronize any dual point distributor. My machine has saved me a lot of time and headaches over the years.

-Jason

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There was one on ebay that sold for $390 this week, an Allen sold for about the same 2 months ago. Delco made a syncro tool. I have a # and drawing of it (2 actually), it would be nice to find one of those.

You have done a few parts for Lincoln Ks, do you have one or were they for the same customer?

Looks like you do nice work, we have a shop here locally (Nashville)that can rewind motors.

I have all the old Delco, National, North East............. and about everything else.

Todd

Todd

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Oh no, I myself don't own any old cars. All customers items. I have a couple old tractors, that's it.

I have all the old Delco, National, North East............. and about everything else.

What did you mean by that? Do you have old parts, catalogs, units?

-Jason

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Hey John, I found a duel point synchronizer for your car... and about any other car with Duel points. What model it was, there were 2 different distributor versions for the 1928.

In addition, I also bought the one listed for the Marmon as well. I thought it would work on more cars , but so far I have only narrowed it down to any others... (was told it worked on an Auburn / was listed on the ADC site). I was hoping it was a copy of one of the Delco ones listed in my Standard Auto-Electrician's Manual. Haven't confirmed that yet. Is was well constructed, laser etched, but over $30 for a piece of plastic. Well worth it if you have a Marmon....

I am looking for a list of distributors and the cars they fit / master list, maybe from a rebuilder. Part of the docs has it listed by car the other is by distributor #.

Todd

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You don't need an expensive machine to synchronize dual points. Dual point ignition was standard equipment on many English and Japanese motorcycles from the fifties on up. I set up many of them with nothing more sophisticated than a set of feeler gauges, a degree wheel, a 6 or 12 volt test light and a packet of cigarette papers.

The feeler gauges are used to set the points gap. If you don't know how to do this, I will wait till you go look it up. Hint: You set the gap when the points are fully open. In other words when the cam lobe is directly under the rubbing block.

On a bike we would fasten the degree wheel to the crankshaft, on your car there should be timing marks. In some cases you time it by the distance of the piston before TDC. You will have to figure out what it is for your car.

With the points gaps set, set the timing for the first set of points. Now check the second set. If they are independently adjustable, set the timing of the second set.

On many motorcycles they were not independently adjustable for time. This meant you had to fudge the gap a little to get them to fire at the correct time. This was exactly 180 degrees apart.

By closing up the gap you could get the points to open a little earlier, opening the gap made them open later.

Now if you haven't figured it out, the cigarette paper was for finding the timing. Put a strip of cigarette paper between the points. Tug gently on the paper and slowly turn the distributor, the moment the point open you will be able to pull the paper out. We used ciggy paper because it was the thinnest you could get.

The 6v or 12v test light does the same thing. When the points are closed (with power on) the light lights up. As soon as the points open, it goes off. You need to set the points so the light goes off at the exact right time. The coil actually fires when the point OPEN and cut the current. This seems funny, but it is true.

Hope this helps. With a little practice, you can get the dwell, timing, etc just as good as any machine, using your exotic skills and knowledge and less than $10 worth of tools.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

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Most cars with points distributors were made so the distributor could be removed and replaced easily without losing the timing adjustment, so points could be replaced on the work bench,

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Hi Todd. My distributor is a Delco 651B. It has 4 lobes on the distributor cam inside. There are some Delco dual point models that have 8 lobes.

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For an 8 cylinder engine with dual points and a 4-lobe distributor cam, each set independently controls 4 cylinders. For an 8 cylinder engine with dual points and an 8-lobed distributor cam, one set "breaks" to fire the coil and the other set "makes" to re-energize the coil, essentially giving a longer dwell for the coil to saturate.

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