Wood graining

[Guest bofusmosby]

There was a link that was posted on this site a while back, and the process and results looked very impressive. By the cost of the kit, it really wouldn't be cost effective for one person to buy the kit, just to do one car. I was wondering, if there were a lot of us that would like to do this to our cars, it would be cost effective if a bunch of us were to go in together and buy one of these kits. Then we could share this product, and only buy the wood-graining plate(s) that the individual needed, as well as the ink and paint in the color of our choice. The kit could then be kept by the AACA, and lent out to our membership as it was needed. I guess it would be something like checking out a library book. However, all this would have to be done by honest people. If we were to lend it out to someone of questionable character, then all would be lost. Maybe there could be some sort of a refundable deposit that is paid by the member, so if the kit were to grow legs and run, then it would be paid for.

What do you think? Just a crazy idea I guess, but I am positive that I am not the only one who would like to restore their car's interior. Just an idea.

Here is a link to the process. Check out the various videos.

https://www.woodgraining.com/

[Guest 1hooligan]

Funny that you bring this up, I just purchased four of the graining tools, and will attempt to do the dash in my 1936 chevy truck. I have read, and watched several vidios on the process, and it looks like fun. If you check on the internet, most of the tools are available on line, and your imagination is the only limit on the tools to use. I will let you know how it turns out. Pat

[Guest bofusmosby]

Yes, I'd like to hear how it turns out!

[auburnseeker]

I bought the full professional kit and did my 1936 Chrysler airstream roadster. (intended to do a few friends cars as well) Overall I was pretty impressed with the results. Dry times for the inks seemed to take much longer than stated. It was suppose to take 2 days I think. It was 70 plus degrees for 2 days and the ink didn't want to dry. It eventually took a week to dry and I had to stick it in my wives truck with the windows rolled up in the sun for 2 days to get it to fully cure. The clear coat they recommend dries fast but takes atlest a week or 2 to really cure hard. You can leave finger prints in it even after a few days of curing if you press hard.

Took alot more base coat paint than they recommended as well. It took 3 cans to do a roadster, After I switched to like color primer.

Still a good product, I would recommend.

[Earl B.]

There are several videos on 'You Tube' showing woodgraining... If you put wood graining in the search, several selections come up. Some are pretty good, others soso.... good luck, B

[Guest Earl]

I bought the full professional kit and did my 1936 Chrysler airstream roadster. (intended to do a few friends cars as well) Overall I was pretty impressed with the results. Dry times for the inks seemed to take much longer than stated. It was suppose to take 2 days I think. It was 70 plus degrees for 2 days and the ink didn't want to dry. It eventually took a week to dry and I had to stick it in my wives truck with the windows rolled up in the sun for 2 days to get it to fully cure. The clear coat they recommend dries fast but takes atlest a week or 2 to really cure hard. You can leave finger prints in it even after a few days of curing if you press hard.

Took alot more base coat paint than they recommended as well. It took 3 cans to do a roadster, After I switched to like color primer.

Still a good product, I would recommend.

One thing about wood graining is that you want the graining material to dry slow. It will stick to the surface better that it's going on to, plus it gives you a lot of time to work with it. If you've ever tried to grain something with a paint or material that does dry fast you'll find out in a hurry what a mess you can get yourself into and then it won't wipe off very easily so you can make another attempt.

And it is better to leave it wait a week or so before you go over it with a clear coat as it does take a lot longer for something like that to cure than most folks want to wait. But the top coat will give you less trouble and you won't have trouble with crazing or the finish below lifting. 25 years ago I worked for a pianter that did a lot of wood graining and he learned to grain at the Packard company in the 30's. I should have picked his brain more than I did, but Bill always complained that the new graining products dried too fast. And he would always wait a week or ten days before top coating any of that work.

[Guest 1hooligan]

Earl thanks for your imput, since I have nothing but time to play I will take your advice, and not push anything.

[Guest Earl]

When I was young I always wanted a really nice player piano. And of course they are supposed to have a "piano finish" on them. Until Bill hired me to work for him I never really knew how they built up those old finishes like they did and gave those things the high gloss, mirror flat finish that they did in those days. They didn't have sandpapers like we do now and had to use scrapers, pumice, rottenstone, cork & felt blocks to get those finishes. They would wait a week or two between coats and rub everything down and give it another coat. It took 90-160 days to finish a piano before 1924 when the spray lacquers came out. Spray lacquer took it down to one afternoon! It really wasn't much different than how they finished cars in those days as well. Bill explained how they did those finishes and it took me awhile to get it figured out as much of the stuff they used is no longer being made. Rubbing varnish doesn't exist anymore because of the EPA. But if you read through the old painting books they talk in there about the difference between drying and curing. They wanted the finish to "set" (so dust wouldn't settle into it) in about 6-8 hours. That's what "Cook's rapidry varnish" would do. And then it took about a week to cure. The theory was that it wouldn't crack, peel or blister if it took time to cure and adhear to the surface it was getting put on. It's hard to say really if what they did years ago really did hold up any better than what we are doing now, but they did get good results in those days. I've refinished about 75-85 old upright pianos and have done about 15-20 of them in rubbing varnish back when you could still get it. If you ever saw three old upright pianos in real varnish, lacquer or poly the varnish wins hands down. Those old pianos may not look so good now after 90 some years but when they were new, they looked nice. And in those days a piano finish was the industry standard and all other finishes were compared to it. Coach varnish was a little different, but worked about the same and that's what went on the old cars. I have a bunch of painting magazines from about 1901 to 1909 and they go into detail about some of that stuff, but I never got into that sort of varnishing. And when you go back to the pre WWI days those boys made a lot of the finishes themselves yet. You were considered on the lazy side if you were a painter and used ready-mixed paints.

[Guest 1hooligan]

Wow this is cool!!! I did my first, and then second attempt. Well, since there was a second, the first did not come out. However, adding a little paint thiner to the staining gel, made the world of difference. Color was a little to brown, so I will do a second coat tomorrow with a little red added in. Anything within arms length is a potential graining tool, crunched up aluminum foil, an old paint brush, even an old tooth brush all worked wonders. When I get done, I will (try) to post pictures. I am kind of anal, and my wife God Love her, says I am a perfectionest. I will love to get your feed back

[Guest bofusmosby]

I look forward to seeing your photos!

[Guest 1hooligan]

Done, it came out great! Not perfect but for a first time I am proud and pleased. Going to let it sit for about a week, then color sand lightly and polish.

At a cost of about $50., compared to a cost of $500 to $600 from the two individuals I contacted. I am way ahead. anyone that wants pictures just send me a pm with your email address and I will forwar a couple of pictures.

Pat.

[Guest Dean_H.]

Way to go 1hooligan, sometimes you just have to go for it.

I also tried my hand at wood graining and was more or less satisfied with the results. Here is a quick summary of my attempt . First I painted the parts with a tanish color. Here's a pic of one of the window trims.

Then with a small fan brush, purchased at a crafts store, I simply painted a wood grain pattern with darker brown paint. When the paint on the brush dried a little, the results improved. It also helps to have some pictures or a piece of real wood to copy.

Here it is finished, at this point I sprayed on a clear coat, sanded and buffed. Its not concours quality, but quite a few average (non car) people have asked me - 'is the wood original'? :-)

[Guest bofusmosby]

Dean

It looks good to me. I noticed that in your final photo, the shade is a bit darker. How did you acomplish this? So, this was done with only paint, huh? Did you use oil-base paint? Was all this graining done with just that one brush? You did a really good job, and you even put in your 6 cents worth!.

[Restorer32]

Is that a Packard garnish molding? '32 Model 900 or '33 1001? If not it sure is similar.

[Guest Dean_H.]

A '32 Packard, I wish :-) -1929 Hupmobile, the trim pieces do look similar. The way to make the piece darker is to lightly keep going over it with a dryish brush. I used automotive - base coat, clear coat polyurethane paint. It dries very quickly which is helpful when doing this. I'm not a perfectionist, just a construction worker who wanted to get the car done. I found the wood graining to be pretty easy. Here is a picture of the dash before stripping off the original paint.

In this picture it looks like all hope is lost on salvaging this wood grain. But I just keep going over it with the brush to darken it and blend the edges. What you see here ends up being the high lighted part of the wood grain. You can see the printed picture I used as a guide.

Here it is after I finished and installed it in the car. I struggled the most with the pin stripe, but finally got it after wiping it off about five times. The lighter section was created by not going over it too many times with the dryish brush.

Here is a close up.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Dean, that looks really good. You mean to tell me that you did all of this with that 1 brush?

[Guest Dean_H.]

Thanks Jim, I went down to Michaels Arts and Crafts store and bought three or four brushes. After some trial and error the fan brush, about one inch wide, seemed to work the best and that's the one I used for the entire job. It's been over a year now, but I think the brushes were a couple bucks each. The paint was expensive however, - don't remember exactly, but something like two or three hundred dollars. I also looked at the kits and checked out youtube for ideas. I even got a quote from a pro (about two grand) to do dash and all trim. To save money, I decided to just try doing it with a brush. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to win trophies, just want a reasonable looking car to drive around town. Here is another picture of the dash. Oh, one other thing. After the paint dried for a couple days, I wet sanded it, starting with 600 grit and finishing with 1500. I put the clear extra thick to allow for more sanding. Brush work doesn't leave the smoothest finish. Once it was sanded smooth, I buffed it out with a power buffer.

[Guest Tishabet]

I got a similar effect to Dean's (but not quite as good... his is great!) using brown automotive paint as a base, then using a similar brush and "painting" on wood grain made with a dark poly wood stain. I had to keep spreading the stain until it thickened up a bit, then just streaked it around in a grain pattern with the brush. Doesn't look half bad, and saved me quite a bit of coin.

[Guest 1hooligan]

Dean, I think you did one hell of a great job!!! Very Impressive, and you did it yourself, not just took out you checkbook. Thanks Pat

[keiser31]

Once again, Dean does what we love most...adds great photos and info to the post. Makes me want to try it on my trim. Excellent job, Dean!

[Guest bofusmosby]

You know Dean, the more I look at it, the better it looks! If you don't mind me asking, why was the paint so expensive? Was the base-coat a special mix? I am assuming that it was sprayed on, as well as the clear-coat. How many coats of each did you use?

Sorry for so many questions, but man-O-man, that DOES really look good. If you ask me, it actually looks better (the wood graining) that they originally did on my car. It looks more like real wood.

[Guest Dean_H.]

Thanks for the compliments guys, even I was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. I figured it would be difficult, but it turned out to be easier than expected. At a recent car show, I was a little surprised by the response to my dash. People were taking pictures and some even brought friends over to check it out after they had seen it earlier. One girl asked me if all that wood was original. When I told her it was just painted steel, she went in for a closer look and even tapped on it. It was amusing to see.

Quality paint has become very expensive. I stripped all the parts to bare metal, used epoxy primer and then the base color coat was applied and finally the clear coat. The paint shop was able to custom mix the paint using my original parts to match the color.

[Rusty_OToole]

If you want an exact match for the colors used to woodgrain your car's interior parts check this out. I just noticed this, while looking for something else, they have the old paint formula books and they include interior colors.

AutoColorLibrary - Color Chip Selection

This site, Auto color library has all kinds of paint info for old cars including interior colors. The page I link to has Chrysler corporation cars from 1949 but no doubt they have your car too.

Note that the page linked gives the background color and the color used for graining. This should make it easy to match the interior of your car.

[Jdee]

Paint is very expensive. When folks ask us for pricing here at my shop they think wow that's way to to much. But they want modern paints, UV protection and all the goodies. Folks use Printers ink and all kinds of different interior stains and such to make their woodgrain patterns. Most will not last, they are interior stains and printers inks. Reds go first The sun loves to eat red in the inks, it makes them green as far as I have seen. I can say The woodgrainers I have seen here and on other sites do a great job with their brushes and rag rolling. Just make sure you use good ink / pigment

And like others say wait a good week before clearing. Woodgrainers work on a mechanical adhesion for our painting not cross linking like most modern paints.

Also most woodgraining is brown or black ink like Dean_H. did they will work fine they don't seem to fade out... Super work Dean_H. That looks fantastic!

Jdee

PS: If you can degrease your parts with naphtha you can usually clear with no worries.

[auburnseeker]

:DI just thought I would add the photos of my woodgraining I mentioned back in the beginning of this thread. Unfortunately I have a problem with my primer so I will have to strip and redo it all but This is how it looks now all back in the car. The car is a 1936 Chrysler Airstream roadster. I know the pattern isn't correct for my car but I picked what I wanted. A tigered maple grain in mahogany tones.

[Guest bofusmosby]

IT looks great to me! If you don't mind me asking, what is the problem you are having with your primer? If a mistake was made with it, maybe you should let us know so we do not repeat the same mistake. The grain actually looks very similar to what my car originally looked lke, except the base color on mine was a lighter color I believe.

[auburnseeker]

I did everything I was suppose to including sandblast all the parts to bare metal, prepsol the surface then coated with Duplicolor self etching primer. Various days at various temperatures over the course of a month (that I think was the mistake) I had used the product faithfully for the last few years and really liked it's results. I believe they may have changed the product or supplier. I have been in contact with them and they think it must be a different problem. All I know is everything I did after say April 1of 2010 has developed tiny rust pimples under the primer. Everywhere not just in spots. Everything before that date is still fine. I have even asked several Body shop friends and they said seems like the product. (I Don't know if there is a moisture contamination in the product or if there may have been a change in the formlua that causes it to suck moisture out of the air when it's sprayed or? It is aerosol based so it's not an issue with contaminated air supply. It didn't seem to matter what I topcoated it with wether it be all the products sold by the wood graining company or plain old black rustoleum with an eastwood clear everything done after that date with the primer failed. Surprisingly everything done with no primer. Engine brackets and what not are all fine. I got a run around from the tech advisor at duplicolor. I don't believe he understood what the problem was. He didn't get to see the the problem in person. They did offer to refund the $60 I paid for the primer. I was actually looking for the answer to my problem not a refund of the money on the primer. I have over $100 in clear coat one everything not to count the base colors. I even used a similar filler primer in red oxide by duplicolor to help my paint go further as the green self etching primer was hard to cover. The tech representative thought I wasn't getting enough primer coverage. I want to state I did not use the primer sold by Grainit. I now wish I would have. I really like their products and am completely happy with the kit. Again I think the problem lies in the primer I used and I would suggest using a different kind of primer as this one didn't work for me. Possibly use grainit's primer if you use the rest of their product just to insure compatability. I know I was furious to discover this problem 2 months ago after just getting everything installed back in the car. The clear and top paints would insure that the surface is sealed so I still believe the problem is somehow related to the primer. Just my opinnion though. If anyone else has had this problem let me know. I know the rims I painted just before this on my car with the same primer look like they were sprayed yesterday, along with everything else done prior to that date.

[auburnseeker]

I just wanted to add. I got a bunch of new cans to prime my dash. The wheels I primed were done from cans of primer I already had. New batch new problem.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you for the info. It almost sounds like there was a moisture problem with the primer from the can.

Could you please give us the details on everything you used, how many coats of each etc.? I know that there is a lot you must have done that you assume we all know, but I found a long time ago that if the first assumption is wrong, then the rest after that will also be wrong. I like your results, except for the rust-bubble problem you described. Is it possible that there was a humidity chance that could have caused your problem?

[auburnseeker]

I thought like you did with a humdity problem but the parts were all coated over the course of a month on sunny days outside and I was careful to not prime on real humid days. I believe it still falls on teh primer as only primered parts developed the problem. Not a single unprimed part shows any problem.

For the woodgraining I blasted everything to bare clean steel. I cleaned with prepsol degreaser just to be sure my hands didn't leave any trace of oils. I primed with teh Duplicolor primer. (use a different primer) I then reprimed with a like color primer to my basecoat as it took alot of paint to cover the gren tinted primer. I skim filled and sanded out pits then reprimed until I was satisfied I had a smooth surface. I then resanded smooth wiped it down and applied my bas paint coat i picked from the Grainit color chart. I picked my plate and used the mahogany ink printing the image on the parts. I did screw up and had to redo a few spots I wasn't happy with. I then let the ink dry. It took over a week. I eventually had to put it in my wifes truck and let it bake in the sun.

Once it was dry I had to do the smear coat with the "toner" they provided. This gives the grain the rich color and goes on just like a wood stain. They suggest VIVA paper towels and be sure to use them as the other brands are courser and will actually take your graining off if you're not careful. Again I had to bake this in teh sun for a few days.

After that was done I applied the Upol #1 Clear they suggested. Goes on well but do it in the shade. It sets fast and you can get tiny are bubbles that don't blend well if it dries to fast. I actually applied a few coats of this until I was happy I had a heavy build. This takes awhile to get hard but sets up fast. I then wet sanded and buffed everything with 1500 grit paper working my way to 3000 grit for an easier time buffing. I used 3M perfect it but honestly I've used mother's polish for mag and aluminum buffing and it works pretty slick. Ignore the cautions on the can I use it on everything. The finish is waht you see in the photos. Most is suggested by the grainit people on their website. The smaller kits aren't real expensive. As I mentioned before it took more paint than suggested. But red oxide primer is really close to the brown orange color I used on my base so it took very little to cover that. Overall I was real happy with the project just not the rust problem from the primer.

It does take alot of time though. That's why it's so expensive to have done.

[Restorer32]

How long between the time you primered and the time you painted? Did you use a sealer over the primer before painting and if so how long was it between sealing and painting. I would bet money the problem lies in the application rather than in the product. Did you use any out of date products? Did you mix product lines? Did I see Rustoleum mentioned? All professional painters cringe when you even mention Rustoleum. I also see "ignore the cautions on the can"... not good. Another possibility is your use of red oxide primer. It can take a month or 6 weeks for red oxide primer to dry to the point where shrinking is not a problem. Remember the "sand scratch" horror stories of the old days? My advice, keep it simple and use EXACTLY the products and procedures your supplier reccommends.

[auburnseeker]

The prime to paint times varied as on all my projects. Some things were painted within an hour others had atleast a few days. I try to paint outside when possible to avoid messing up everything else in my shop. I didn't use any sealer over the primer. As I mentioned before everything was done the way I had been doing it with no problems for the last 3 years. Blast, Clean, Prime, Paint, Clear. I followed all the directions on the cans allowing atleast the minimum amout of cure time suggested before top coating. The part I put about ignoring the cautions was purely on teh Mother's Aluminum polish. I have been using that stuff for 20 years and swear by it for almost everything. Hands down the best polish for the money available everywhere.

The red Oxide was duplicolors brand and I allowed the proper dry time on that. Infact 2 mouldings were done without the red oxide primer and they have the same problem as the rest so I'm positive it isn't a problem with the red oxide.

Rustoleum I have been using on my Chassis and black engine components only. I actually know a few Good body men who love the stuff. It goes on well dries hard and beats alot of other stuff I have tried. Probably not as deadly as half the stuff they have out there now.

Again the only parts I have had a problem with were those coated with the etching primer after that date. There is such a vast difference in the times between blasting priming and painting that the only constant is the primer. Leads me to look there first. I know companies are always changing stuff around to try to meet ever more stringent VOC's. I think something may have been done along those lines but that's just a suspicion.

I'm not a novice to painting. Not a pro either but I'v done enough to know what not to do. When in doubt I ask my friends who have shops and they are all leaning on teh primer problem. Who know's. Wish I did and would have before the job. That's alot of work to throw away not to mention the material cost.

I appreciate the input though. I'm always eager to listen so my projetcs will come out better than before.