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Reproduction Oil Pump Housings


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See this post:

http://forums.aaca.org/f126/1930-president-oil-pump-276318.html

I believe the man reproduced one for himself by obtaining the factory print for the part number in need from Studebaker National Museum Archives and submitted it to a machine shop to reproduce.

The demand is very low so I don't know of any shops reproducing oil pump bodies in general, only the 1929-30 President 8 engines are in large enough demand to warrant a repro project.

Stude8

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Just a comment to investigate, you are looking for an oil pump to fit a 1928 GE Dictator six cylinder engine. All the repro pumps talked about here are for President 8 cylinder engines 1929-30. I don't have a 6 cyl parts catalog to reference but I suspect these pumps are not interchangeable? Even the early 8's had variations until mid-1929 and later. Find a 6 cylinder part catalog and get the correct part number for the pump to fit your engine then compare with the 8 cyl numbers.

Stude8

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Hi Stude 8. I am sure that the pump for my Dictator 6 is not the same as a President 8. The pump complete part # is 43615 and the body part number is 43617. I was told though that they had the same problem as the President 8, in that they were made of pot metal and crack age, leading to pressure drop and eventually total failure. I was told this in my initial thread from about 2 years ago, when I originally got the car, that this was a distinct possibility, and if it is cracked, then I need to investigate getting a new bronze reproduction. I believe they mentioned Steve Munts as the guy that was doing the reproductions out of bronze, and that they needed to be taken to a machinist with the original for fine machine work to make the repro proper to original. Now that Steve is no longer doing this, from what I am reading, I guess what I was looking for was someone who might have a spare that they haven't used and would be willing to part with, or the possibility of someone else who might be reproducing these. I would love to be able to drive the car again (It has sat dormant for about 25-30 years), but am doing so on very limited time and funds. As I hear things about oil and oil pumps and checking condition of the engine bearings (which I don't even know what I would be looking for anyhow) and the amount of pot metal in these cars, etc., I am just plain getting afraid to try to start it. I can't afford an overhaul, much less a rebuild. Even the fuel pump, I have been told is at risk for breaking apart if I take it off for rebuilding. I'm not really sure of what to do at this point. Keith

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I guess you will have to put the oil pump body on your important to do list because it is the heart of the engine and you can't risk an otherwise operational engine being damaged by low or no oil pressure. If you have another oil pump from another GE or the one from your engine a competant machinist can dimension the original and reproduce a repro body out of brass or bronze or even aluminum. Shop around your locale or ask other antique owners for their experiences.

As for the fuel pump read this AACA forum discussion, all you need to know where to obtain a NEW fuel pump is given in the response. The big hazard with fuel pump fractures is leakage and the ensueing fire, you can't risk that with a fractured die cast pump body. There is the electric pump solution but that has its own risks with over flooding the carburetor.

http://forums.aaca.org/f126/1928-president-fuel-pump-toast-281496.html

Stude8

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you all for your input. I can see I'm going to need to save some sheckles and get one of these reproduced. Maybe at the time of ordering, I'll take a poll as to who else would want one and if I get enough interest, maybe the cost will come down. I would really just like to get the car running again. It means the world to me as it was my Grandfather's antique car through most of my life (he bought it in 1966 when I was three). I spent alot of time riding shotgun in that car and learned to drive standard shift in it. So many of you have been so helpful in encouraging me and I greatly appreciate the time and patience that you all and others have taken with me in pointing me in the right direction.

Keith

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GE 28,

"Thank you all for your input. I can see I'm going to need to save some sheckles and get one of these reproduced. Maybe at the time of ordering, I'll take a poll as to who else would want one and if I get enough interest, maybe the cost will come down."

If you get to that point, I'd be interested in ordering one as well....I'm not having issues, however never hurts to have one "in stock". I'll double check part numbers as I have a 29 Dictator GE 6...but these years overlapped and my guess is I have the same thing.

Robert

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Hi Keith,

I recieved the oil pump housing and it was a good fit. I tried to take some photos to compare the pumps. The pumps matched internally, ports, and drilled threaded hole. The width of the new pump is a little larger than the old one which gives it extra support. So, I encourage you to work with Bob. Please keep us posted-Paul

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

I was digging through some old threads, and started thinking again about these housings. Now, I have two GE Dictators - a '28 and '29, neither of which show any external signs of damage. However, my uncle pointed out that if this is such an know issue, and so important a part, he was surprised no one had reproduced them for the 6 cyclinders - just the 8's (from what I've read). Is there so few of the Dictators that there is just less demand in comparison to the Presidents? I've half a mind to pull one of them and have my local machinist friend reproduce two of 'em as a 'just in case'...since these cars are not getting any older!

Also - I thought I saw somewhere where a fellow obtained factory drawings/specs for their particular oil pump - is that typically obtainable from the Studebaker musuem?

Robert

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According to the August 1928 parts book for the GE Dictator the complete pump is part number 127501 and the body is part number 127505. Is this a different pump than the one list in the previous thread or did Studebaker change the part number? Maybe they are different but interchangeable???

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Robert:

You can obtain copies of many of the original manufacturing drawings of Studebaker parts. Call archivist Andy Beckman at the Studebaker National Museum in South Bend and give him the part numbers and descriptions of the items you need. Sometimes, it is necessary to have the drawing for the raw casting and another for the finish machined part. The museum staff can figure out what you need from the numbers in the parts catalogs. There are something like 70 tons of original drawings on file. Searches and copying are done by museum staff and volunteers. The museum charges by the hour, but a typical set of drawings might cost $50-$150, and they will take VISA/MC. Particularly for parts with tight tolerances, like +/- .0002 inch for slip fits, etc., these drawings make possible exact reproductions of parts. I recently got drawings for the cam, pistons, and connecting rods for the 1935-7 straight 8s, complete front axles for 1929-33, and wheel hub drawings for 1928 and 1930 cars. Owners of other old cars are not so lucky as we Studebaker drivers are in having access to such drawings.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Robert,

That's a good point. I was thinking that there was a pump change when Studebaker went to a full pressure lubrication on the later versions of the basic Light Six engine design, but that occurred in 1925 with the Standard Six. My illustrated parts manual collection only covers 1915 - 1925 so I don't have the actual p/n used on the Dictators, but reasoning this out....in 1925 the Standard Six used a p/n 43615 pump carried over from the Light Six and there were no significant engine changes through 1927 when the Dictators picked up this engine so it should be the same iron/steel pump design. Picture of Dictator engine looks like the same pump. Of course someone may have better information to prove me wrong.

Scott

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  • 4 weeks later...

Mike, Actually, now that my car is being worked on, we should absolutely compare notes as I am really getting into tearing the car down now to inspect, repair and replace if necessary and of course reassemble. We haven't gotten to the oil pump yet, but we may be venturing into that arena soon. I have a very competent fellow working with me on this and when we get to this area, I'll let you know. Keith

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  • 1 month later...

Keith,

Lots to do. Most engine work done, carb and fuel pump, starter and generator rebuilt and engine running. The steering wheel is off to be rebuilt, and I have new levers to intsall on the column when I get the wheel back. My GE is an old Dealer conversion to pickup and it has not been running since 1956 -- at least that's the last time it was registered. Has the normal dents and dings you find on an older vehicle, but there is surprisingly little rust, other than light surface rust as there is virtually no paint left. I just had a hub puller made to pull off the rear wheels and that's my next project. If the brakes turn out to be as good as the front all I will need to do is adjust them. That's pretty much where I'm at, what's the status on your 28?

Mike

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Mike,

Everything is looking like we just pretty much need to wake mine up at this point. Everything is in pretty good shape. We took up some lash in the rear end, cleaned out the gas tank, looked over the engine which appears to be nice and tight. Front end and brakes all appear to be good. We are awaiting the carb to come back from the rebuilder to find out if it is OK to use (orig. Stromberg UX-2), and if not that will be a setback till we get a replacement. I have pics on my profile page is you want to see the car apart.

Also looking for a King Seeley gas gauge face plate and cover glass for the car, or an original gauge, as mine is missing.

Would love to see pics of yours

Best,

Keith

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  • 7 months later...
Keith,

Photos of p/n 43615.

Scott

How does one tell if the oil pump is worn out? I happen to have just yesterday taken off the pump from my '28 Dictator which the gauge said kept having low oil pressure. After cleaning it, it looks as if the clearances are tight, teeth aren't worn appreciably, I'm not seeing much scoring on the sides. The gaskets were replaced some time in the past. Is it just a matter of double checking clearances? I did get the manufacturer drawings from the Studebaker museum so I'm guessing that plus my part and a machinist could give me an idea where it's at?

Robert

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I wouldn't rely on the gauge in your Dictator. Install a temporary gauge which is known to be good and see what you get.

How thick are the oil pump gaskets? Gaskets that are too thick will cause a drop in oil pressure.

Terry

Edited by dictator27 (see edit history)
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