Trying to identify an antique car

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

The attached photograph shows a car I'm trying to identify. I'm working on a history of the building in the background (from Skagway, Alaska) and this photograph is undated. A date on the car would at least give me an earliest possible date. Thanks for any help!

Kind of funny to have cars there, total road mileage couldn't have been much, you couldn't drive out of Skagway until the 1970s or 1980s.

Bob

[unimogjohn]

Bob, could be one of several cars, but as to year it sure looks like mid to late 20s. We will see what other have to say.

[ply33]

I don't recognize it either but it could be as late as a 1931 or even 32 model.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Looks like a big luxury model... '28-'32 vintage ?

The wheels look a little strange ( from what I can see of them )...

[Guest Model T Nick]

The car looks a little derelict so the picture could be from say the 50's ??

[jscheib]

It seems to me that the radiator has been removed, as the hood sure seems sloping to the front. I also note what seems like some interesting white wall tires. And also there is no spare on the rear or sidemounts, so I think we agree, the car may have been there for some years before the photo. At least we know it is not older then mid-20's to early 30s.

John

Edited July 15, 2010 by jscheib
spelling (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

White wall tires on what looks like an abandoned car sure look odd. I'd guess the vehicle was built 1930-32. If you could post an enlarged photo maybe we would have more details to pin point the ID.

[Steve Braverman]

Looks like a big luxury model... '28-'32 vintage ?

The wheels look a little strange ( from what I can see of them )...

They look like Checker wheels.

[Restorer32]

My best guess....'32 Packard Model 900 with disc wheels...very similar lines

[Guest Nancy DeWitt]

I can't help you with the identification, but I can share one story about automobile history in Skagway. The landlocked town actually had the distinction of hosting Alaska's very first automobile, a little runabout built in 1905 by 22 year-old Robert Sheldon. There's a great story behind the car (see Fountainhead Antique Auto Museum: Alaska's Most Treasured Car), and we're honored to have this historical treasure on display in our museum.

During the Gold Rush, a number of autos passed through Skagway on their way to the Yukon Territory by way of the White Pass Railroad -- perhaps even before Sheldon built his car. A mystery I'm still trying to research. I have a photo of the Abbott-Detroit Bulldog used in the 1911 100,000 durability that was shipped to Skagway, but have no other photos or newspaper articles about other automobiles that made it there.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

My best guess....'32 Packard Model 900 with disc wheels...very similar lines

On first look I thought Packard but I suggest 28-29 lincoln because the front fender has the same shape as the 28-29 Ford,staying closer to the back of the tire before it swoops back than the 30-31 model or a Packard

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

Unfortunately, if I enlarge the photograph further, it becomes very grainy. The photo I posted is about as big as will work.

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

These are all good guesses, I'll start googling images of cars from 1928-1932.

[K8096]

I'm thinking big eight cylinder Marmon or Studebaker. The sloping roofline should help identify.

[Guest frazer51]

In 1991 we drove to Alaska as far North as the Arttic Circle. As we toured we headed South and drove into Skagway and as we drove around town I saw a blue 4 door sedan which appeared to be a Studebaker I would guess to be a 1928 to 1931. It appeared to be in nice condition and driveable. Some where in my collection I have a picture of the car , but it may just be on my video. Right now I don't have the engery to look for it, sorry.

[jeff_a]

Bob,

Good photo. Regarding your surprise at cars being in Skagway before the 70's and no roads out; it didn't stop my family from showing up there in 1964 with two cars! We drove there from Kansas in February.

Re: make of car. My vote is for one of the rarer and more elegant Peerless models: a 1929 Model 8-125 with a 138" w.b. and a 322 cu. in. straight 8.

Nancy,

I once saw an online reminiscence of a soldier stationed in Skagway during WWII who bought an early 1920's Franklin there & drove it around in his spare time. Have you ever heard of one of those in Alaska during the 40's?

----Jeff

Edited July 20, 2010 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

Here is a thoroughly photoshopped version of the photograph. Dunno if this makes identification any easier.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Someone mentioned Studebaker... those could be disc wheels such as Stude used in the late '20s...

Nash also used disc wheels through-out the '20s, and built some big sedans...

[Guest De Soto Frank]

How about these from over in the "What is It" dept. ?

( 1927 Studebaker Dictator )

[Guest prs519]

Perhaps knowing when Skagway got wired for electricity would be a good clue?

A poor strictly intuitive guess for the photo.....1960s early.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Robert.

I just googled Skagway Aklaska History. Found the following interesting if not the whole web site:

Quote: " Bobby Sheldon, 14, builds first automobile in Alaska for 1905 Fourth of July parade. He will later drive first car and run tours over Alaska's first highway between Valdez and Fairbanks, where the Skagway car will end up in the University of Alaska museum. In December, a meeting is held in Skagway about building a road from here to eventually connect with the Valdez road."

If the Skagway car is in the University of Alaska, possibly the trail of inquiry may be better defined.

(Maybe I have too much time on my hands today but I must admire whomever wrote the very detailed chronoligical history of Skagway...really interesting. References the first roads built into Skagway although your photo vehicle is a later model.)

Re: Skagway History

Regards,

Peter.

[K8096]

This photo was taken off the Marmon section of this forum. Compare to the car in question. This is a 1930 Marmon. The roof on this car is sloped like the one in the picture.

[Graham Man]

Ok I am bias but I am going to go with a 1929 Graham 827 Sedan with disk wheels. I agree it is a disabled car, looks like the hood is open, and I believe the reason the car looks strange is the building has fallen on it! Let’s go back to the photographer....what is he/she taking a picture of? ... not the car, too far away, must be the building....maybe because it fell on the car? storm damage?

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

Skagway was wired for electricity right after the town got started--1898 or so. Telephones too. I've seen some of the telephone equipment.

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

The building has not fallen on the car, though I'll agree it looks like it. The building, which was the first YMCA in Alaska, is still there. We found some of the original exercise equipment, and the floor still had paint on it for games--haven't figured out which games yet. Interesting structure, though the outside looks like crap. The National Park Service is stabilizing it so it doesn't fall down and will eventually restore it, along with the neighboring structure. They were donated to the NPS, along with the money for at least the initial work. Right now, the YMCA is jacked up so archeologists can get at the ground and a new foundation put in.

[tigersdad]

I blew it up as much as possible and it appears to be no later than a 1931. Still has a sun visor over the front window. It appears that the radiator is missing as the front of the hood is slipping forward. The wheels are some sort of disc. Solid like a Packard, but a disc that flares out. As everyone stated, it appears to be an early car at a later date.

Jay

1931 Cadillac Town Sedan

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

Can you please post your enlarged version?

[tigersdad]

Robert,

I don't think I can as I kept enlarging it on my computer until it got too blurry.

Jay

1931 Cadillac Town Sedan

[Graham Man]

Could it have been a large wood pile that tipped over? It still looks like something fell on the car, the hood looks pushed up from the other side. Could there have been another building next to the pictured building at some time? I am guessing they get a good amount of snow? Maybe a big snow storm caused damage?

Let’s throw a curve, could it be a railroad car? I have seen Graham pictures (late 20's) where the wheels have been replaced for railroad use. Is it me or do the door handles look to be mounted half way down the doors? That should be a big clue to the make.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

I'm staying with Studebaker....

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

No building on that lot other than the one in sight. Maybe the wood pile. And they do get plenty of snow. Probably not enough to damage a car, though. Note the steep pitch to the roof, it sheds snow before it can build up much. A railroad car? The tires look like whitewall. But the owner of the lot did work for the railroad.

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

After looking at many pics of cars, this really looks like a 1929 Packard, but I'm far from sure.

[Guest Nancy DeWitt]

Peter - Our museum has Robert Sheldon's 1905 runabout on display. He was actually 22 when he built it in Skagway, not 14. Here's a link to a post on our blog about it:Fountainhead Antique Auto Museum: Alaska's Most Treasured Car There's a fabulous story behind the car and we're delighted to have it in our museum.

Jeff - We do know about the Franklin to which you referred. Too bad we don't have it in our museum.

Nancy

[foxhole]

those trees across the road look pretty small in the picture. 3-5 years at most. Go cut one down and start counting. Then minus 5 and i'd say youd be pretty close to the year of the picture. Also when did they employ the railroad control devise in the picture and are there any buildings close to this structure that you do know the build date of that either are or arn't in the picture? might give you a range to know it was bult after one and before another. But i'd just go for cutting one of those trees down and counting the rings...

[bhambulldog]

On first look I thought Packard but I suggest 28-29 lincoln because the front fender has the same shape as the 28-29 Ford,staying closer to the back of the tire before it swoops back than the 30-31 model or a Packard

The headlight made me think Lincoln. But, if a Lincoln, the wheels are more modern replacements?

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

those trees across the road look pretty small in the picture. 3-5 years at most. Go cut one down and start counting. Then minus 5 and i'd say youd be pretty close to the year of the picture. Also when did they employ the railroad control devise in the picture and are there any buildings close to this structure that you do know the build date of that either are or arn't in the picture? might give you a range to know it was bult after one and before another. But i'd just go for cutting one of those trees down and counting the rings...

Not a bad idea, but this is in a National Park. Just imagine the red tape to cut down a tree here! The trees are still there.

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

We've dated the other buildings in the photograph. The coca cola sign on the building at left is from an early 1930s ad campaign. Unfortunately, that just means the photograph has to be about 1930 or after. Which is nice to know, but not precise enough. And, of course, dating the car gives us an 'earliest possible' date. Though now I'm after the car make because it is very possible parts from this car are still in storage in Skagway. The guy who owned the building NEVER threw anything away. I've indentified auto parts found in the back of the buildings as from Essex Motors 1918-1922, for example. When his buildings and collections were donated to the National Park Service, the curators estimated they contained 450,000 artifacts--estimated!

[Guest Robert_Photographer]

Are those spoked wheels? And when did whitewalls become available? Also, that is not a railroad crossing in the foreground--the railroad was a block east and a spur line was 2 blocks south. Dunno what it is.

[Curti]

The wheels look like artillary wheels from a mid 30's car. I don't think the wheels came with the car when new. White side wall tires were available in the mid 20's. Both sides were white.

[Graham Man]

The only time you plant pine trees like that is a wind block or to not see the ugly old buildings behind your new building. Find out what year the building was built on the lot with the trees and you will have your date. Looking at the general repair of the buildings next to the car they would have to be 60+ years old. I also belive if you found a tree guy from the area, knowing the type of trees they are they could estimate the current tree's age pretty closely.