Peter Gariepy

Wedding and JC Taylor Insurance - GOOD NEWS!

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I sent customer service at JC Taylor an email asking about their policy about using our automobiles at weddings. Thought it was worth sharing.

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To: JC Taylor

Subject: policy using our cars for weddings

What is JC Taylor's position for policy holders using their automobiles in weddings?

Peter

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Would you be renting the vehicle out for weddings, or using it for personal weddings? Who would be driving the vehicle? Thank you.

Joe Scolis

Underwriting Dept.

JC Taylor Insurance Agency

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To: JC Taylor Agencies

Subject: Re: policy using our cars for weddings

Specifically, i want to drive someone else to their wedding in my antique car insured by JC Taylor. They are not paying me, I'm simply doing it as a courtesy.

Peter

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Hi Peter,

This usage is perfectly acceptable. It is if you were getting paid that would make it a problem. Any time payment is received it then becomes a business use instead of personal use and our policy would not cover any loss.

Brendan Devlin

JC Taylor Insurance Agency

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Just to clarify, if the wedding party chooses to "tip" me, either with cash or with a meal at the reception, etc. Is that considered commercial?

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I don’t think getting a meal would be considered anything more than a friend buying you dinner for the favor of using your car. That’s not an issue in my opinion. The tip could be a gray area however. Technically you are receiving a cash consideration for the use of the car, which could get you into trouble. In my opinion I would say that to be safe you shouldn’t accept any sort of money in exchange for the use of the car. The simple reason is that we write personal Auto Policies. Anytime money is exchanged it becomes a business enterprise which is specifically excluded from any Personal Auto Policy.

Brendan Devlin

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Please ask them to define "payment". Is a donation payment? How about gas money or a free meal at the reception? If an accident occurs or someone is injured you can bet their lawyers will define "payment" very broadly.

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Just to clarify, if the wedding party chooses to "tip" me, either with cash or with a meal at the reception, etc. Is that considered commercial?

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I don’t think getting a meal would be considered anything more than a friend buying you dinner for the favor of using your car. That’s not an issue in my opinion. The tip could be a gray area however. Technically you are receiving a cash consideration for the use of the car, which could get you into trouble. In my opinion I would say that to be safe you shouldn’t accept any sort of money in exchange for the use of the car. The simple reason is that we write personal Auto Policies. Anytime money is exchanged it becomes a business enterprise which is specifically excluded from any Personal Auto Policy.

Brendan Devlin

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It would be nice if all the antique insurers would clarify some of this type language. I believe Hagerty has the same policy in regards to being paid for anything, regardless of venue (weddings, etc). I used JC for a decade plus however they are very selective on the type vehicles they insure: no Amphicar water coverage, no electric cars, only certain year older Corvettes, etc.

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Why do people find it necessary to overcomplicate things? As long as you are not doing it as a business, what difference does it make if you receive a tip, dinner or cash? If my car got hit, I would say it was hit while in a friend's wedding, which is allowed. End of story. I would not say, gee I got a $20 tip and a plate of shrimp, is my car still covered? Is the insurance company going to subpeona your bank statements to see if you got anything before they pay?

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What do you tell your insurance company when the wedding party, who got severely injured, is suing you?

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What do you tell your insurance company when the wedding party, who got severely injured, is suing you?

It says quite clearly that the car is covered if used in a friend's wedding. So how is this a problem or any different than if they were riding in the car on the way to a car show?

Are you going to say, well some idiot ran a red light and totaled my car which has a stated value of $30,000, but I don't know if you should cover the loss because I got a plate of shrimp and $20 for gas?

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I asked what is your reply if the wedding party sues you? What do you do when they tell the insurance company that they hired you and that you are responsible for their medical and/or funeral costs, plus negligence?

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Oy, am reminded of the line from Henry VI (Part 2) which is always used out of context.

If you receive a meal while at a wedding they have made you a guest. Simple. Money, you are for hire. Also simple.

Does mean anyone approached for use in a movie better be sure they provide insurance as part of the compensation.

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If the car was hired out by someone you do not know, then it is obviously a business transaction. And even if it was, if the wedding party was expecting to get any money, they would be stupid to say anything that will cause the insurance company to deny the claim.

Otherwise if the car was not hired out as a business transaction, as I already stated, what is the difference if the wedding party sues you or if passengers on the way to a car show get injured and sue you?

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West, like a lot of things in life there is some risk. However, if you are receiving NO payment, doing it for a friend and not doing anything stupid (like being drunk) then there is very little real risk.

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If the car was hired out by someone you do not know, then it is obviously a business transaction. And even if it was, if the wedding party was expecting to get any money, they would be stupid to say anything that will cause the insurance company to deny the claim.

I am only concerned for those who hire out. I am not arguing the point about friends/family wedding use, and I think J.C. Taylor has responded to that.

If you take money, you set yourself up for some real ugly lawsuits in the case of a tragedy. If the insurance company doesn't pay, YOU DO.

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Gentlemen:

I just talked to JC Taylor and their position is simple. Their current rules are that no compensation for the service of using your car can be conducted. Money cannot be exchanged. Doing this for a friend, helping out someone, etc is acceptable to them. You can try to make this more difficult with all sorts of exceptions but as long as you are not for hire, it is not a livery issue than you can drive someone or even let them drive your car.

It seems to me it would be prudent to protect yourself in all ways for liability and do your due diligence. Common sense says that the policy prohibits compensation so do not accept any form of such.

Hope this helps.

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I am only concerned for those who hire out. I am not arguing the point about friends/family wedding use, and I think J.C. Taylor has responded to that.

If you take money, you set yourself up for some real ugly lawsuits in the case of a tragedy. If the insurance company doesn't pay, YOU DO.

There are several companies in the Chicago that hire out antique Rolls Royces and limousines for weddings, proms, etc. If you are expecting to do this with your car, then you have to have the type of insurance that covers this business. The same as you cannot use your regular personal new car insurance for hiring out your car as a taxi.

Otherwise, if you are using it for a friend's wedding, it would be stupid for you to say they gave you a tip or gas money for the favor. The insurance company would have no way of knowing this, so why cause problems by telling them?

Edited by LINC400 (see edit history)

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Billybird, the secret is: it is not worth it! If you want to go in the business buy the expensive livery insurance...very expensive! If not, fly right, fly straight and you have no worries. A few dollars in your pocket are not worth the risk. Cash may not be traceable but certainly the person that gave it to you might be!

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My original reason for this post was simple: its ok to drive your car in a wedding party and your insured, just dont make it a business. Do it for the fun, do it to show off your car, do it to help a friend... just dont do it for money.

Seems logical.

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I think we're all now clear on the insurance company's (at least Taylor's) position regarding the coverage(s). BUT... just remember that no contract, policy, agreement, etc., will keep you from being sued in the event of any accident, loss, damage or injury! And even if you are not at fault, you can still find yourself on the bad end of a lawsuit, which could still cost you many thousands of dollars to defend... even if/when you win. And just because someone is your "friend" doesn't mean they, or their insurance company, won't attempt to sue you. The legal term is "subrogation", and it's VERY common. Unfortunately this is just a fact in the society in which we live. I used to do "favors" like this for friends, family, etc. with our cars, but I no longer do so. It's simply not worth the risk anymore.

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Some in here have made mention of things being simple, or if you use cash it is 'untraceable.'

NEVER, and I mean NEVER assume anything is simple or untraceable when dealing with insurance companies!!!

For example, if your best bud slips you the price of a tank of gas in cash for the use of your car, and he 'agrees' to not mention it in the case of an accident or claim, he may likely be singing a much different tune if he is deposed as part of a lawsuit, placed under oath at that deposition, and 'remined' of the penalties of purjury before he says a word!

Ain't lawyers great?

Joe

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this really isn't complicated. If you're doing it as a favor, the dinner or whatever is a token of thanks. View the use of your car as a wedding present. If you are doing it to get paid, then you are doing it for the money and you DESERVE not to be covered - read your insurance policy.

I had someone let me use their car in a family wedding - besides my sincere thanks, I found an original sales brochure for their car which I gave him as a thank you gift. I think it suits the occasion. A photo or two of the car is also appreciated.

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WOW! I am astounded by the thinking expressed in some of the (above) comments. No wonder we have become such a litigious society! It is not a question of "stupid" and "smart" when you or the injured party is giving answers to questions about the accident, whether under oath or not. The basic standard here is honesty and truth.

..what is the difference if the wedding party sues you or if passengers on the way to a car show get injured and sue you?

The difference is what they say is the truth about whether they paid you anything for the ride.

I hope all reading this stop and think before they commit insurance fraud by operating on the "stupid" / "smart" principle of getting insurance companies to pay.

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Zerk, I agree, a simple premise that has been beat to death.

An example of the litigious society that we live in:

My son, 14, wanted to make some extra money this past summer. He loves detailing our old cars. So, naturally, I thought well, he could detail cars in the neighborhood, maybe 30 to 40 bucks each, and everyone's happy.

So, talked to a friend who had run a detail shop. He said don't do it. Any scratch on the car, a dollar bill thought to be missing out of the glove box.....and the owner of the car can sue, file a complaint against you for theft, and so forth.

It's a real shame. In the old days, no one would have even begun to think that way. Now, things are totally different.

So, the point about the fact you can be sued regardless of how you're using your car, is sadly true.

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It is so sad that society has resorted to being this way. All the Lawyers have made so many people sue-crazy. If you are so concerned about something happening if gas money is provided, then first, get it in writing *and have it notorized) that this service will be done free of charge. Then, as far as gas goes, drive your friend to the gas station in your car, have him go inside the store, pay the $20 to the store for the gas. There, no money has passed into your hands, and there shouldn't be any problems. I myself like the idea, but when the insurance companies get involved with litigation, then all bets are off.

I would rather play it safe, rather than regret it later on.

Just my opinion....

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I know a fellow who will carry the Bride & Groom from the Church to the reception for a charitable contribution. He asks the family make a check payable to the (Charity if his choice) for $200.00. Payer gets a write off and the new couple gets a ride, car owner gets to show off his car and do some good for charity.

Sound good?

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As I read this thread I was thinking about movies too. In 1967 my car was used in Tora, Tora, Tora, and later in "The Secret Files of J. Edgar Hoover". And still later in a TV movie called "Elenor and Franklin" or something like that. I'm sure glad nothing happened. I also rode a Baltimore Colt (long ago as you can tell) in my car in a parade in suburban Baltimore. I'm glad he didn't fall out of the convertible. Just think how much money he made? And still later I rode a legislator in Virginia in my car in a parade. Glad no trees fell on the car. I even did a wedding once for a friend....never again. People are constantly contacting our AACA Regional club/s asking for a car to use in their kid's wedding. I never do it because I've heard of these insurance entanglements now, but some do. I guess AACA needs to put a notice in the magazine or something, because this is something we should be able to do, that obviously we're not able to do and the fact that it is wrong doesn't make it right in the eyes of our insurance if we get caught. Enough said.

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