1957 Buick Brakes - not so good

[Fred Zwicker]

I have a 1957 Buick Riviera Super 2-dr and the previous owner had the brake booster rebuilt, along with new brake cylinders. The linings were glazed, so we replaced them, but the car is still really hard to stop, requiring more than the usual amount of foot pedal to do much of anything. I also have a 1954 Buick Riviera Special 2-dr without power brakes and it stops easier than the '57. Any ideas? Someone mentioned a check valve for the booster on another post. Any chance that this could be the problem?

Thanks,

Fred

[old-tank]

Fred

HERE is a description and solution to a similar problem. If the shoes are Raybestos change them!

Willie

[Fred Zwicker]

Thanks a lot Old-Tank,

I bought the shoes at NAPA and the old ones are in the box at work, which I will check out on Monday. If they are Raybestos, I will send them somewhere to be relined with the correct linings, as I am really not comfortable driving this beautiful car. I checked your link and printed everything, which will be studied carefully until I can resolve this. Any other ideas will be greatly appreciated, as when I say the car is hard to stop, it is almost impossible to stop without having "bare knuckles" and a cold sweat.

Fred

[Barney Eaton]

If your brake hoses have not been changed in a few years, it could be your problem and worth the effort for safety sake.

It is not uncommon for the inner liner to crack and flake, plugging the line and causing hard stops.

Note that Willie's symptoms may be different than yours. His problem was mainly when cold.

[Fred Zwicker]

Brake Hoses? Good idea and I purchased a set at NAPA when I bought the new brake shoes, but did not install them as yet, as wanted to get the car ready for a Pontiac-Buick-Olds show in the Cleveland area on 6/13. I will review all info furnished so far and when I come up with a solution, will report.

Thanks, Fred

[Fred Zwicker]

Fred

HERE is a description and solution to a similar problem. If the shoes are Raybestos change them!

Willie

I bought my brake shoes from NAPA and just checked their site. They are called Tru-Stop bonded, 12" x 2.25". The MSDS sheet said they were made by Federal Mogul Friction Products in Smithville, TN and supplier listed as Rayloc Division of General Parts Company in Atlanta, GA. (Lots of health info, but not much else). The Brake Lining Material was mde by BrakePro in Cartersville, GA and same supplier (Rayloc). Same health info.

If it is possible to purchase new linings from an antique car source so that this car will stop properly, am looking for such sources. I have my original brake shoes that I just removed from the car that could be sent out for linings. Evidently some of the newer materials are not the answer.

Thanks for any help or ideas.

Fred

[old-tank]

Fred

A few more thoughts:

hoses...not likely both front hoses are obstructed; with one obstructed there would be severe pulling (same with a frozen wheel cylinder); the one hose to the rear if obstructed would cause loss of braking and if you only have time to change one this should be the one.

shoes...pull a drum and check the contact, if less than 3/4 have the drums measured to see if in specs; even the best friction material will not work if no contact.

power brake booster....with the engine off pump the petal until hard, then with your foot on the petal start the engine; you should feel some drop or pulsing in the petal as the engine starts.

If all this checks out drive in a safe location and heat up the brakes with some hard stops and if there is improvement it may be the friction material.

If not contaminated with oil or brake fluid put the old shoes on...or have them relined.

Willie

[JohnD1956]

Just one more idea, have you performed a manual adjustment on the shoes? I don't believe 57's had automatic adjusters and will require some adjustment ( relative to how much you've driven) from time to time.

[Fred Zwicker]

Just one more idea, have you performed a manual adjustment on the shoes? I don't believe 57's had automatic adjusters and will require some adjustment ( relative to how much you've driven) from time to time.

After we installed the new brake shoes, we adjusted the brakes and bled the lines. Allowed car to sit a couple of days and bled the lines again. We took it for a short drive and adjusted the brakes again. After I put on more miles, I will do another brake adjustment. Also I plan to try some of the possible solutions that were posted.

Thanks for the ideas.

Fred

[MartyWorld]

Good morning Fred.

Please contact Vince @ "C.H. Topping Company" in Long Beach, California.

He writes articles regarding "old school"vehicles and supplies the correct shoes for your vehicle. He handles ALL brake issues at his shop, power brake boosters, wheel cylinders, drums, etc.

C. H. Topping

520 W. Esther St.

Long Beach, CA. 90813

(562) 432-0901

He remedied many braking issues in my shop. Had a 56 Buick with new shoes that was a bear to stop. Replaced the shoes with his linings.......no problem.

Good luck,

Marty

[Fred Zwicker]

Quote: Please contact Vince @ "C.H. Topping Company" in Long Beach, California.

Hi Marty - I was on vacation last week and noticed your post last night. Today I called Vince and he said that the linings can cause a BIG difference. So I am shipping my brake shoes (front & rear) for their new softer linings and hoping it does the job. If not, next step will be to send them the vacuum booster. Vince said that the wheel cylinders should be checked and should be 600-800 PSI, so will check them also. Hopefully everything will work out well and I thank you for the advice. I will keep you and others on this forum posted of the results.

Fred

[TG57Roadmaster]

Your '57 Super may have a similar power brake booster as mine. 15 years ago,

the car suffered from really bad pedal feel, etc., and the answer is thus...

If you have the same booster, take off the curved rectangular cap and add a

few dashes of Marvel Mystery Oil (or similar) to the opening beneath that cap,

working the pedal to regain "feel.". There's a leather "gasket" that requires

lubrication in that booster, and since doing that fix, my brakes have been just fine.

Pardon the nasty condition of my booster, but the Roadmistress has been a

driver since 1992, and the engine bay has never been detailed.

Hope this helps,

TG

[Fred Zwicker]

Thanks TG,

I have some Marvel Mystery Oil (good stuff) and will try this and let you know if it helps. My booster looks the same and has an access opening on the top, so am hoping that this will work.

Fred

[1957buickjim]

Hi everyone! I am looking for a check valve for a 57 Buick power brake system. Any help would be extremely appreciated. It's the only part for the system that I don't have. Thanks.

[Fred Zwicker]

Your '57 Super may have a similar power brake booster as mine. 15 years ago,

the car suffered from really bad pedal feel, etc., and the answer is thus...

If you have the same booster, take off the curved rectangular cap and add a

few dashes of Marvel Mystery Oil (or similar) to the opening beneath that cap,

working the pedal to regain "feel.". There's a leather "gasket" that requires

lubrication in that booster, and since doing that fix, my brakes have been just fine.

Pardon the nasty condition of my booster, but the Roadmistress has been a

driver since 1992, and the engine bay has never been detailed.

Hope this helps,

TG

I sent my brakes to Topping and they are in my office, waiting to install. Prior to doing so, want to try the Marvel Mystery Oil. I located the rectangular cap on my booster and it looks to be the same. So my question now is" Can you define "a few dashes" ? I don't want to add too much or too little. Also when working the pedal, should engine be on or off? Thanks,

Fred

[Fred Zwicker]

Does anyone know about adding a dash of Marvel Mystery Oil to the brake booster through the top opening? Attached picture shows the top opening referred to earlier in this post. Car is a 1957 Buick Super Riviera Hardtop.

Some call this a "Treadle Vac". I have the new softer brake shoes from Topping and want to do everything at once.

Thanks,

Fred

[JohnD1956]

I don't know specifically but I use Marvel mystery oil in all my air tools. two or three drops is about all I'd add. You can probably get a small plastic bottle from any parts house, one with a dropper style end, and use that.

[MrEarl]

So Fred, how are the relined shoes from Topping working out for you. I am sure you remember to the penny how much they charged you?? I can't find anyone local so am looking for the best place to have some shoes relined.

[61polara]

Adding a few drops of light oil to the brake booster is covered in the '57 Buick shop manual.

[coupekid]

aye Fred, ..your Buick 57 booster looks to be a cast iron master cylinder  which makes it a Moraine booster set up ...treadle vac bendix type have an alloy master cylinder ..   check out this ultra important link .. which defines this..

 

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/l.../files/9-a.pdf
http://www.teambuick.com/reference/l.../files/9-b.pdf
http://www.teambuick.com/reference/l.../files/9-c.pdf
http://www.teambuick.com/reference/l.../files/9-d.pdf

 

...anyways,, what ive learnt is that the rebuild kits arent the same  as other vehicle models like ie, chev cadillac,pontiac olds, in same year  ..    just ask them good ol boys from Fusick   !!!  ..their complete kits for either Moraine or Bendix are $89 ..the leather gaskets are another $21  ..   with my current non reconditioned moraine booster  & with new brake shoes & wheel cylinders & lines ,hubs machined etc my pedal has good brake pedal pressure only when car is stopped & idling ...soon as i am out travelling on them roads ..aye yia yia ,, my pedal is  to the floor with bugga all brakes !!  ....have to pump my pedal like a mad man everytime i need to stop   which leaves me no choice  but to now recond my booster & master cylinder ..,My brake specialist also stated that whether i have a check valve or not my pedal shouldnt be to the floor.. so i ordered my booster /master parts from Fusick last week ..

Edited July 18, 2015 by johnnybuick (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Going to the floor with the pedal would generally indicate that you have air in the system and you need to re-bleed the brakes or there is a leak in the system.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[lancemb]

I have a 1957 Buick Riviera Super 2-dr and the previous owner had the brake booster rebuilt, along with new brake cylinders. The linings were glazed, so we replaced them, but the car is still really hard to stop, requiring more than the usual amount of foot pedal to do much of anything. I also have a 1954 Buick Riviera Special 2-dr without power brakes and it stops easier than the '57. Any ideas? Someone mentioned a check valve for the booster on another post. Any chance that this could be the problem?

Thanks,

Fred

If there is too much effort required it will almost always be either A) problem with drum or shoes - glazed or wet with brake fluid, B ) lack of boost, usually from bad check valve or other source of low vacuum, or C) lack of fluid pressure which is normally caused by obstruction such as bad hose or kinked line.

Check your check valve first as this is easiest to do; this was the culprit with my 57 Super I had.

Edited July 22, 2015 by lancemb (see edit history)