My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[oldcar]

Hello Donald

I personally am not supposed to go near the garage for another 10days following my eye surgery. The body, fenders, hood etc are out with the painter. I don't expect to have anything back until the new year. I still have to complete the windscreen frame and the trim. The seat frames are already made and the base boards for the trim panels but nothing more can be done with them until the body is back on the chassis frame.

I have not been slacking off. I have just finished a 3,000 word piece for the Automobile Magazine (UK) and I am about to, some what belatedly, start on my Christmas letter to friends & family.

Bernie J.

Edited December 15, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hi Donald

Further to my e-mail are these the sort of fittings you are looking for. I am missing the two knurled head bolts that go with them but it should not be a big deal to get two made.

Bernie J.

[DavidMc]

Hi Donald and Bernie,

Those fittings are for the windshield on the closed models, the open cars are different. What body style is yours Donald. I can photograph my tourer if it helps.

David

[oldcar]

HI David

Thank you for coming to the rescue. If you can post a photo of the ones on your tourer it would be great. As you know the windscreen on my car (a convertible victoria*) is to be something of a compromise.

It is to be hinged across the top and split across half way down in the same manner as the closed cars but with much narrower side pillars. The control mechanism for the top half is still "on the drawing board". I may have a pair of nicely nickel plated pair for Donald yet.

Bernie J.

* Please note West

I have used lower case "c" and "v" as suggested.

bj.

Edited December 17, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[DavidMc]

Donald & Bernie,

Some photos of the tilting windshield arrangement on my 1922 Packard Sport

[oldcar]

Thank You David

As I suspected the tourer windscreen arrangement is not applicable to my car. I will have some photographs but not until I get the body back from being painted in the New Year.

Bernie J.

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, just a question. Since your car had its top cut off and is now an open car, do you have plans to put an convertible/period top on it? If yes, what do you plan to use? Still enjoy all our posts even though you are still on the mend.

John

[oldcar]

Hello John

Yes, the Packard is to become something approaching a convertible victoria. The top material will be a fabric that I used to have made for me commercially about thirty years ago known here as "Salt & Pepper" It has black and white threads twisted together in the warp and a plain tan thread for the weft. The overall effect is one of salt and pepper. It is a laminated cloth with a layer of natural rubber in the middle and plain biscuit coloured gaberdine on the underside. I discussed this some time ago in the overall question of colours. the only change to this is the car will not be two toned brown and biege but Black fenders valances etc and dark brown body with biscuit coloured upholstery and trim. Biscuit coloured wheels.

Bernie J.

[Guest cben09]

Hi,,,If you plan to have a windshield that opens,,,,don't forget to leave extra material,

about an inch n'half,,,,The material will go round the top piece a bit,,

Had one once,,it wouldn't open,,,,Cheers,,Ben

[oldcar]

Thank you Ben. I will keep that in mind. There are all sorts of traps for young players!

Bernie J.

Wow! We have just finished posting all our Christmas Greetings cards and our "End of year letter". The letter is too large at five pages to post here.

If any of the regular visitors to this thread would like to receive a copy send me an e-mail.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Just a very quick one. Dave has made a start on preparing the body for paint. It is amazing just how much shape is in the rear section of the body when you see it like this.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hi all

Just a thought, I have sent our "end of year" letter to several people. It mentions numerous places that many of you will be totally unfamiliar with.

There is hours of fun to be had tracing some of our journeys on Google maps."Get Directions" First use our home address as your starting point. 11 Glendora Lane, East Doncaster, Victoria, Australia. Use the satellite version of the maps. lock in "Avoid Highways, Avoid Tolls. then add the various destinations. You can zoom in and really see the country-side.

Enjoy

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Living here in South Eastern Australia has many advantages, firstly we never see snow or sub zero temperatures here in Melbourne (The Worlds most liveable city) Being situated where we are in relation to the international date line we are way ahead of almost everybody else in the world. As I write this it is just past 11.00 am Saturday morning, Christmas Eve. About 18 hours ahead of folk living on the East coast of America. That way we get to see Santa long before anybody else and so have the pick of all the good things.

While you were all rugged up and inside, last night we were sitting out in the garden (The temperature a balmy 25-6 degrees C.) entertaining a few friends having dined (al fresco) extremely well on a succulent leg of lamb cooked in a Kettle bbq. washed down with some excellent Australian wine, both red and white, and some very good local "Carlton Draught" beers. How they get a "Draught" beer into a bottle I do not know but it sure is good.

My wish for you, is that you all have an enjoyable Christmas, that life continues to be good and that the New Year brings you Happiness, Good Health and Prosperity.

Cheers

Bernie J.

Edited December 24, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

OK, Bernie, I am envious!!

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Ben

[oldcar]

Hi Ben

A special Happy Christmas to you and yours.

Enjoy but watch those second helpings!

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Bernie, just a question. Since your car had its top cut off and is now an open car, do you have plans to put an convertible/period top on it? If yes, what do you plan to use?

John

Hello John

Further to my earlier reply the attached drawing should help you to visualise the final result.

Bernie J.

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, your car is really going to look nice with that top. It is going to look rather sporty. Too bad you cannot tilt the windshield, but I understand what you are working with.

I was just reading about the Packard Twin-Six cars with the custom bodies by Fleetwood, Derham, Demarest and others. The article has some great pictures. The article is in the January, 2012 issue of Hemmings Classic Car, #88. If you like I can scan the article and send it to you.

Funny, you are working on an American car, and I am off tomorrow to look at a British car. I hope to have her in my garage in a month or so.

[oldcar]

Hi John

It sounds as though Santa must have been kind to you, it is a pity he could not fit that British Car down the chimney to deliver it.

If you wouldn't mind sending me the Twin Six article that would be great. I think you may already have my e-mail.

Bernie J

[oldcar]

Bernie, your car is really going to look nice with that top. It is going to look rather sporty. Too bad you cannot tilt the windshield, but I understand what you are working with.

Me again John

Looking at my drawing in a cold hard light. I have the height of the screen and therefore the top a little low when I apply my basic 1/3 + 2/3 rule. in simple terms the height of the screen from the top of the cowl to the top of the screen should be 1/2 of the height of the cowl from the chassis(frame) to the top of the cowl or slightly more in the case of a hard top coupe or slightly less for a soft top. Basic design principals I learnt a long long time ago. This rule can be applied to almost anything and it will work. Among other things this rule is used all the time by professional photographers when composing photographs either vertically or horizontally.

For a classic example look at the header (the blue part) at the top of the page.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hello all

Welcome to 2012. I trust that this year will prove to be even better than the last.

We have just returned from a very pleasant break staying with my sister on the coast at Point Lonsdale. This is on the western opening to Port Phillip Bay. Some great weather provided that you like it hot. Over 30 degrees C most days.

We are having some friends from the UK staying with us over the weekend then I should be back to the Packard again early next week.

Don't go away.

Bernie J

[oldcar]

Hello

Spoke with 'Dave the Painter' yesterday and selected the main body colour, a very "vintage" dark brown. He tells me if he does not have too many interruptions that the body should be ready for me to start re-assembling again in two or three weeks. I hope to have some progress photographs soon.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Our friends have departed on their long journey back to the UK and I can now re-commence work on the Single Six. This afternoons job to sort out some more of the electrical wiring.....

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

The section of original factory "Service Parts List" that David McC very kindly sent to me gives the length of each cable but some how I just cannot bring myself to cut my new cotton covered cable to the lengths suggested. I think that I am going to leave that until I have the body back on the chassis frame. It means that I will have to find something else to do during the next two or three weeks. I am sure that there is something else that I can do.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Some people may be wondering why it will take something more than three weeks just to paint the Packard. Unlike modern cars that can be painted in a "couple of days", in some cases without even removing the glass from the windscreen and rear window let alone all the trim.

The Packard is entirely dismantled. Body off the frame, doors and luggage trunk lid removed, ALL trim removed even the cowl vent is removed to be painted separately. The hood is dismantled into its four separate parts before being painted. The fenders, side valances, front apron and petrol tank are all removed and each painted separately. Once everything has been prepared from the bare metal and is in primer it is left for 5 to 7 days to dry fully before being hand rubber back only then the final coats of paint are applied. This in turn is left to fully dry for another 5 to 7 days before it is polished. Finally the body will need to be carefully lifted back onto the chassis frame, doors etc refitted and gaps adjusted only then can the hardware, latches etc can be refitted. The last thing to be fitted will be the windscreen frame. The interior trim still has to be completed and installed, the seats upholstered, the folding top and side screens made and fitted. The tires have to be stripped from the wheels before they too can be painted going through the same process. Hand pin-striping being the finishing touch (NOT stick on decals). This is, in Australian terms, a PROPER (full) restoration, not a quick fix up, some "bog" and a quick coat of jam! It all takes time. Somewhere between 3 and 5 years, the projected completion date late 2013/14. If you get bored easily it is probably best that you leave now.

Bernie J.

[Guest SJMcKee]

Well said Bernie, I'm with you for the long haul, it's been a factful adventure for me.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Bernie, what is the paint used on your car? If it has to be let dry for so long, it's certainly not a modern formula.

About the time you are using to restore that Packard and the hint to the ones for whom it's too long, I could write the same sentence on my post as the expected duration was calculated to be 10 years! (and will probably be that long)

[oldcar]

Hi Roger

It is actually a German 2 pack paint system. It is just that my painter is sufficiently old fashioned as to believe that if a job is worth doing it should be worth doing properly. It probably could be pushed out the door the same day but he would not be comfortable that he had done the best job possible, he will only work to the one standard. Anyone who saw his finish on the Dixie Flyer will understand. I am more than happy to go along with him as I know that his work is impeccable. He works by himself rather than employ people who may or may not work to his standard. He is able to choose who he does work for and who he does not. Over the past 50 years I have had quite a few cars painted but no one else has come anywhere near his finish.

I am flattered that he is happy to do my work, he is someone who is prepared to work with me and to fully discuss every aspect of the job with me. All he does is paint vintage & classic cars and he is a position where he can paint for the people he wants to and refuse any job that he would sooner not do for whatever reason.

Bernie J

Edited January 10, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

Bernie, you are fortunate to find a painter that thinks that way and even more fortunate to be "on the list"...

[oldcar]

Just a quick reminder. The Dixie Flyer before and after. A paint finish to die for.

If the Packard comes out half as good I will be well pleased.

Bernie J.

Edited January 10, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hardly an exciting day but it has to be done. A whole day spent measuring up and drawing a battery box. Extremely mundane but without it you can't go anywhere. Next question should the bottom be lead lined? Oh yes as the exhaust runs right next to it I guess some sort of heat shielding wouldn't go astray.... I can see why the next series shifted the battery to the front fender instead of under the floor.

Bernie J.

Simply not sufficient room

to list all the cars

that have passed through

my hands.

[DavidMc]

Bernie,

I have not seen any evidence of lead in the bottom of the battery box of mine or other similar cars. I painted mine with 2 pack then placed a piece of 3/8" ply in the base. Its been like that since 1985. The last 10 years it has had an Optima, and still has the same one. Must be getting close to its "use by" date, (hopefully before I do!!)

David

[oldcar]

Thanks David

Did you move your battery box to the front fender (mudguard) or is it still under the floor.

If still under the floor have you done anything to shield it from the exhaust (heat)?

Bernie J.

[DavidMc]

Bernie,

My battery box is under the floor as original and I have not provided any heat shield. The exhaust pipe is about 1 1/2 " to the side of the battery box which should provide enough air gap to prevent any significant heating of the battery, although I have never checked it.

David.

[oldcar]

Thanks again David

I have been looking at all my "scrap" sheet metal. I have enough either steel or aluminium. I am concerned about my ability to fold the steel with my folding equipment. (A length of RSJ and some angle plus an assortment of G clamps.)

This may be the first ever Packard with a "lightweight" battery box. It may just need that lead tray in the bottom to make up the difference.

Bernie J.

Seven Lagondas

Six Jaguars

Five Morris Cowleys and Five VWs if you count the modern ones.

Four Dodge Fours

Three Crossleys ( The English ones)

Two (Dozen) Rileys. It took a long time to learn just how bad they are!

One Dixie Flyer

Plus a lot of modern tinwear that I would sooner forget. You know the things that Ford and GM make in Australia. Also dozens of cars that were "just passing through".....

Then there were the 1920/30s Austin Sevens. How many? Just don't ask.

My first car? A 1918 Austin 4cylinder 20hp.

Now that I think about it there was my French period with Citroen 5CV's, Amilcars, Peugeots etc. and my silly season when I had a thing about Singers at least 7 or 8.

And of course then there were the Daimlers was it four or five if you count the one I almost bought. Lancia Lambdas I would prefer not to think about. Fiats too came and went, some good like the Osca 2ohc 1500 and some not so good like the Topolino that I drove (crashed) through someones front fence. Hey I could go on for hours.

Really I think this thing about listing cars is all a bit...........

Edited January 13, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Sorry about all that, right now I have just the four cars, the 2006 VW Jetta TDi, the 1996 Peugeot 405 SRi, the 1934 Lagonda Rapier all in regular use and the 1923 Packard Single Six restoration project. I learnt to drive on my father's then new 1949 Citroen Light 15. The sort with the gear lever protruding out of the dash, which may have had some lasting effect on me.

Bernie J.

Edited January 13, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

No work on the Packard again today. I am doing some essential maintenance on the 1934 Lagonda Rapier in preparation for this years busy competition calendar.

Bernie J

Sorry I forgot to add the 1938 Delahaye & the Land Rover Discovery to my list.

It seems the more I think about it the more cars that flood back into my memory.

Don't go away there must be at least another 100/150 to come....

I an not sure where to put the 1935 Singer Le Mans Chassis fitted with a Peugeot engine and a body from a Bugatti. And I have not mentioned any of the MGs.....

I have attached a couple of photographs just to whet your appertites. These are of a little "Brooklands" style 1927 Singer 8hp racer, the little yellow car that can just be seen in the carport next to the white 1934 Lagonda Rapier is an even earlier 1925 Singer. Both these cars now reside in the UK.

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Hi Bernie,

I've been reading your forum off and on and it seems we are both at the same point of our restorations. I too am looking for a painter for my 1934 Dodge. Interesting too is that you live only a suburb away from me. I'm in Lower Plenty, just across the river and my brother lives in Deep Creek Drive in East Doncaster ( small world huh ! )

I've spoken to a few people about my car but can't be confident. I know it sounds funny but I get a feeling if I can trust a tradesman and the one who did my body work, I am very happy with. Its just the painter I'm having difficulty sourcing. Would you mind if I contacted the painter who you have been writing about ? and without being rude may I ask if you got a ball park figure to paint yours. I have a number of photos in the album on this site if you'd like to see where I'm up to.

May be we can catch up one day.

Best Regards

Ian

[20Premier]

Do you still have a drawing and measurements for the Gabriel Snubber tool used on your Dixie Flyer?

[oldcar]

The Snubber adjuster I used on the Dixie Flyer was an original tool. It went to Kentucky Trailer with the car. You could try contacting Dan Murphy at KY Trailer they have a website. or alternatively you could try making one similar to the one I fabricated for the Packard. It is not a particularly precise science, I made mine out of scrap and use a pair of vice grips to hold the tape from returning into the drum while shifting the clamp at the axle end.

You can get approximate measurements (18inches long, 3 inches between the prongs, prongs 1 1/2 inches long) from the attached photographs. If you want to be slightly rustic you could use a horseshoe, the trick there is to first find the horse. Good Luck....

Bernie J.

Edited January 16, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hi

It is that "past cars" thing again. On checking my now becoming suspect memory, there were 8 or 9 MG's of differing "types" and two "bug-eye" and one MK2 Austin Healy Sprites.

How did get started on this?

Bernie J

There must be more to come. I remember now, there was a Studebaker "Daytona" Wagon in there somewhere too.