My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[Earl B.]

Bernie, the firewall is black, and most likely under the hood is black also. It was in later Packards...black was easier to touch if a mechanic bumped something. good luck with the car, B

[oldcar]

Hiya 'B'

Good to hear from you. Good to see the roof on that garage too. Keep at it.

Here in Melbourne (Australia) having checked the rain gauge again this morning I can report that yesterday we had over 80mm in the past 24 hours. That is over 3 inches, no wonder things look a bit soggy.

Bernie J.

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, the wire conduit and fuel line on my 20s cars are held in place with frame clips. No drilling of holes required. They come in different sizes to hold what you need held tight to the frame. Here is a pic.

[oldcar]

Thank you John

Do you have any idea of a source of repo clips?

Bernie J.

[DavidAU]

Any of your local electrical suppliers or Bunnings Hardware will have them Bernie.

They are standard conduit clips usually used for clipping electrical conduit to steel purlins.

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, lots of places in the US. Just do a search on automotive frame clips. They do come in three sizes. Not much money. Here is just a sample link.

Optronics Trailer Frame Clips 12 Pack from Wholesale Marine

[Roger Zimmermann]

Bernie, lots of places in the US.

It may not be so easy in Australia...

[oldcar]

Thanks John & Roger for your interest and suggestion.

I am having a cataract removed from my right eye tomorrow morning so as I said earlier I will not be doing much for the next day or two. Once I am back on deck I will follow up Johns lead as the frame clips are comparatively light, postage should not be so much of a problem.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

That things that they don't tell you! My eye surgery went well this morning but now I learn that I should not go near the garage for at least two or three WEEKS! The dressing comes off tomorrow but I have to have drops in the effected eye four times every day for the next three weeks when I see the doctor again.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Any of your local electrical suppliers or Bunnings Hardware will have them Bernie.

They are standard conduit clips usually used for clipping electrical conduit to steel purlins.

Thanks David

I will have a look in my friendly local hardware.

Are the "stars" still shining?

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hello

While I am "grounded" I thought that I may at least do some more detective work on trying to solve the mystery of how and when the Packard first arrived in Australia.

The one clue that I have is that the tyres appear to have been fitted new before the car was shipped from the US.

These are 600 x 23 white-walls manufactured by the Lincoln Tire Co. the batch/id number stamped into the side wall is IFS 11083.

Perhaps there is someone who can identify the date of manufacture from this. Armed with at least a year, I hope to be able institute a search of the Australian Customs Service archives.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

I am told that the Lincoln Tire Co ceased production during the 1960s If I could narrow that down to an actual year it would give me a starting point. One way or an other I am determined to discover something of my Packards history. Meanwhile my eye seems to be healing nicely. I may even get to a point where I can read without spec's. I can see road signs and read number plates without them.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Bernie, lots of places in the US. Just do a search on automotive frame clips. They do come in three sizes. Not much money. Here is just a sample link.

Optronics Trailer Frame Clips 12 Pack from Wholesale Marine

Thank you John

As you say the clips don't cost very much, $1.48 for a dozen but unfortunately after you add $71.00 for packing and postage I could get my jeweller some to fashion me some from solid gold (well almost). I will have to try some more looking locally.

Bernie J.

Edited December 2, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Now the purists will hate me. Originally the door hinges and striker plates on the coupe appear to have been painted. In the past no matter how carefully I prepared and painted hinges, once in service it seemed no time before the paint got chipped. The only solution was to have them plated. Nickel of course.

My friendly plater calls me Mr Nickel. I have just picked them up yesterday. Again these have confirmed my belief that despite its condition when purchased my Packard had done very little work during its 88 years. I am re-using all four original brass hinge pins. None of them showed any wear! I had to 'ease" the holes to allow for the thickness of the plating. Like wise the condition of the brass striker plates tell me that the doors have remained shut for most of the cars long life.

Bernie J,

Edited December 2, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, if it would help I will get a bunch of sizes for you and have them sent to me, then will send them all to you. I do it all the time for our friends across the big pond. Or you can buy them and have them sent to me. Then can bundle them up and send them to your via US Air Mail.

Edited December 3, 2011 by unimogjohn (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hi John

Many thanks for your kind offer. David McC assures me that there is a suitable clip available here so will pursue that line first. If unsuccessful I will come back to you. Meanwhile I do already have a number of clips that require drilling a 3/16th hole so may use them. Just don't tell the judges....

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Today I have been working on the '34 Lagonda. I have been having a problem getting it to idle at a satisfactory engine speed (800rpm) At last I discovered the root of all the problems. It had a very minor air leak in the gasket between the inlet manifold and the cylinder head. It has taken several attempts to find it but at last i have a nice even idle at the desired 800 revs.

Bernie J.

[Roger Zimmermann]

As you say the clips don't cost very much, $1.48 for a dozen but unfortunately after you add $71.00 for packing and postage I could get my jeweller some to fashion me some from solid gold (well almost).

You are confronted at the same problem I have from time to time: cheap parts, but horrible fees for shipping. You order a tiny part and it comes in a huge box...I have many examples of companies I avoid because of that.

Usually, when you are dealing with individuals or very small companies, the problem is non-existent.

[oldcar]

Hello again Roger

I think in every country there are some firms that take advantage of their potential over seas customers, but we should not paint them all with the same brush. Many offer a range of products that are not generally available. You just have to pick and choose the ones that offer good service at a fair price. Sometimes if there is no alternative you just have to bite the bullet. I guess it all comes down to how badly you need something.

Bernie J.

Having said all that no one likes to be ripped off.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Hello again Roger

I think in every country there are some firms that take advantage of their potential over seas customers, but we should not paint them all with the same brush. Many offer a range of products that are not generally available. You just have to pick and choose the ones that offer good service at a fair price. Sometimes if there is no alternative you just have to bite the bullet. I guess it all comes down to how badly you need something.

Bernie J.

Having said all that no one likes to be ripped off.

Bernie, it depends always of what kind of parts or car's model. Most of the parts offered by companies with bad habits are not manufactured by them; the hunt is to find who is selling the same parts with more reasonable shipping costs; I'm doing that since 25 years...For example, I used to buy transmission parts by one known supplier; he shipped with UPS, no exception. I found somebody else who is more cooperative with shipping method.

Of course, if you are dealing with '57-'58 Cadillac Eldorado Broughams, there is just one supplier for most specific parts as he let do them himself (Mastermind). Then, the choice is very, very small!

[oldcar]

Hello Roger

I am exceptionally lucky with the 1934 Lagonda Rapier. The Rapier Register based in the UK has an incredible parts service. There is virtually no mechanical, steering or suspension part that they cannot supply. As a Club based service this is done on a cost plus basis. Postage is kept to a minimum despite an almost same day delivery. All this for a 76 year old car that the entire production over four years did not exceed 400. I keep a credit balance in my "Spares Account" this way anything that I may need is mailed the same day that I e-mail a request. Fortunately the car is so reliable that spares are very seldom required despite being used "competitively" at least once a month. I do all my own servicing and repairs. The distributor has been rebuilt to use a commonly available points set and condenser and it uses 14mm spark plugs that can be bought from any local parts supplier.

For the Packard I have had very few parts that have proved difficult to find, for those that are, I have found that generally my friends around the world have been extremely helpful, especially the ones I have meet through the AACA.

Bernie J.

Edited December 5, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

the Lincoln Tire Co ceased production during the 1960s If I could narrow that down to an actual year it would give me a starting point. One way or an other I am determined to discover something of my Packards history.

Bernie J.

Going back some little time I asked if anyone could supply me with the actual year that the Lincoln Tyre Co ceased production. Of all the people who look at this thread surely there is one who can give me this information or can tell me where to find it. While it may seem trivial without some history for the car I may NEVER be permitted to register it for use on the road here in Australia. As the Lincoln tires on the car seem never to have been used it would give me an approximate date from which to start searching the Australian Customs archives. No small task on its own.

Bernie J.

[MCHinson]

Bernie,

I don't really know anything about this. I did a little Google searching and found this link:

278 F.2d 820: In the Matter of Harry Kravitz and Jacob Rovner, Also Known As Jack Rovner, Individually and As Co-partners Trading As Lincoln Tire Company, Bankrupts.wilcox-gay Corporation, Appellant :: US Court of Appeals Cases :: Justia

If I understand it correctly, it looks like the Lincoln Tire company was in business in January 1958, since they were buying stuff on that date. Apparently they were bankrupt by the time the civil suit was filed in 1960.

Hope this helps... Good luck.

[oldcar]

Many thanks Matthew.

It seem that Lester Tires took over the machinery and moulds about that time. I guess that I will just have to start wading through piles of government documents but will leave that until the New Year.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

While all that has been going on I have not slacked off completely. To-day I have spent some time on the wiring loom and fixing the flexible conduit to the frame. Some relatively boring photographs tell the story. The first shows the head lamp wires located in the fender stay. As a compromise I have used 'black" wire with coloured traces. also the main beam uses a slightly heavier gauge wire. The next photo shows the flexible conduit as it exits the front cross member and goes through the frame into the fender stay. Next shot shows a bunch of wires exiting the main conduit leading to the junction box on the bulkhead. Finally the ignition wires at the rear of the engine. The two high tension wires are the multi colour going from the coil to the distributor, the plain to the Fuelizer plug.

Speaking to Dave the Painter he tells me that he has made a start but will not have anything worth getting excited about to show me until after Christmas.

In Australia we tend to take our main (Summer) holidays at Christmas/New Year so I don't expect very much progress until well into January.

Bernie J.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Hello Bernie!

It seems that English people have more interest in keeping their product alive than the Americans had during a certain time of frame. Too bad the English were not able to keep their car industry...

Fortunately, things changed a little bit in the US; I was able to purchase the wiring for my '56 Biarritz and, more recently, a partial wiring for my Brougham.

When I restored that later car in the eighties, there was almost nothing available. The seat memory was gone; fortunately, I was able to find the main switch and the memory box located under the seat. I had to fabricate the wiring (about 20 wires) going from the box to the switch located on the LH door armrest. As I could not buy/find the correct wires, I did a list of the colors I used and put it into the shop manual.

I suppose you are doing the same in case of a later problem or for the next owner, as we are just the temporary owners...

[oldcar]

Hi Roger

I think that I will stick with pre 1940 cars thank you. I don't think that I could cope with all the power assist and computer controls. I think that a lot of the charm of late teens and early 1920s cars is their simplicity and their honesty. They simply do what they were made to do. Almost any fool can work on them. even old ones...

Going back to the photographs in my earlier post. The third one is of the stop light switch with a red wire bringing in live power and the yellow with the red trace going to the lamp. The plain black wire by-passing the switch is the tail lamp. I am not sure why the other photograph did not appear.

In effect this thread is an on going record of everything that is done on the Packard.

If you go back to my thread on the Dixie Flyer it did basically the same thing following the car from the day I first saw it at a farm clearance to the day it was returned to the family who still run the company (Kentucky Wagon founded 1860) that built it almost 90 years earlier.(Now Kentucky Trailer.)

By co-incidence I saw the Packard for the first time at the same farm clearance. Sadly I don't think that the great,great,great,great grand children of the founders of Packard had the same commitment

Bernie J.

Edited December 7, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello again,

On the subject of the availability of spares from the UK most of these originate with "not for profit", one make clubs. the Riley and Alvis Clubs come immediately to mind. The Lagonda Club has a spares scheme for the bigger cars, the 4.5 litres in particular. The Rapier Register is a one model club catering for the 1934 Lagonda Rapier and the later 1935-38 Rapier cars (identical except for the badge) built by a separate organisation after the Lagonda Company was re-structered in 1935. Almost without exception these spares schemes are run by enthusiasts for the benefit of their fellow enthusiasts. Regarding the Rapier Register this club has at the last count 153 members. The Register can account for 381 of the approximate 400 built. There are examples all around the world, the USA, UK, Europe, Japan, Thailand, New Zealand and Australia.

Bernie J.

member:

AACA

VSCC (UK)

" Light Car & Edwardian Section.

VSCC (Aust) (Hon Life Member)

Rapier Register (Hon Life Member)

Vintage Drivers Club (Aust)

Packard Automobile Club (Aust)

"Friend of" APPF (France)

Edited December 7, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Roger Zimmermann]

Hi Bernie

Fortunately, not all people are interested by the same things! I can do nothing with cars prior to the Fifties: I need in a car an automatic transmission, electric windows, enough power...quite what was available in the late fifties. When I was a kid, I dreamed about such cars which were scarce in the region I was living. It's quite natural that when the time came to restore a car, my choice ws traced...

The spare parts situation is totally different with US cars: the suppliers are all profit people; as far as I know, the same situation as you have with your parts does not exist in the USA.

If I have time, I will read your story about the Dixie Flyer; as you probably saw, I'm quite busy with my Mark II model, which topic is not far away from yours!

[oldcar]

Hi Roger

I look in on your thread from time to time and am always amazed at your patience and skill.

Your sort of cars are a rarity here in Australia. I was brought up on a diet of mainly pre- 1940 cars and have always gravitated towards English cars, Mini's (particularly Coopers), Jaguars and European, Fiats when younger,(My Fiat 1500 OSCA roadster was a wonderful little car, VW(Karman Ghia etc) Alfas & Peugeots. Helen's daily drive is a VW Jetta 2 litre turbo diesel. While the VW is air-cond (essential in Australia) it is a 6 speed manual. I can count on the fingers of one hand the Automatic trans cars I have owned in almost 60 years of driving. One of the first things that I did on my Jaguar XJC 4.2 coupe was to convert it to 4 speed & O/D manual trans. I guess that it all comes down to what you learnt as a child. Much of my early childhood disappeared during the years 1939-47. Petrol was still rationed and you went onto a waiting list for a new car well into the 1950s here in Australia. My father drove a little 1935 Standard 9 hp saloon until he could buy a new Citroen Light 15 in 1951. As a Pharmacist servicing the local hospital he went onto a priority list.

How times have changed...

Bernie J

[oldcar]

Rather than divert your attention from the Packard I have just started a new thread under British cars devoted to the Lagonda Rapier. Take a minute to have a look.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Still not much happening on the Packard front. with my eye still not quite healed I am respecting the Doctors advice.

Bernie J.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

That is OK, Bernie. We will be here when you proceed. Take care of those eyes.

Ben

[oldcar]

Thank you Ben

The last couple of days I have been busy firstly driving the Lagonda in the VSCC "Inner Urban" Rally on Sunday, then chasing up some of the history, for the current owner, on the Austin 12/6 that was the project before the project before the project before the project etc etc. See International Makes and Models/British/Austin 12/6.

It is a remarkable connection:- Australia-England-Austria-Switzerland. How some cars travel!

Bernie J.

Edited December 13, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

And only if they could talk, what stories they could tell!!

Ben

[oldcar]

Hi Ben

That may be true but it is really the people behind the wheel or with a spanner in their hands that create the history. Having said that I just wish that the man who wielded the power-saw that cut the roof off the Packard some time between 1955 and 1965 would put up their hand, Even the ones who pushed it into the container to ship it from the US to Australia about the same time. Surely not an everyday event. The car cannot tell me all its history! Only the people who owned it, drove it, or worked on it. We all need to talk to each other! Without communication there is no communication. Please! Someone knows all about it,. Don't be shy. I really get very frustrated asking the same question time after time.

Somebody in America shipped one or possibly two 1923 Packard Single Six cars to Australia some time between 1955 and 1965. One of those cars had a set of brand new Lincoln white wall 600x 23 tires fitted just before shipment. They were fitted to recently repainted rare five lug disc wheels. I am not asking that you remember what you had for breakfast that morning! Someone must know... Somebody just tell me how to reach them...........PLEASE!

Bernie J.

Edited December 14, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[DavidAU]

Hi Bernie

If it was shipped between 1955 and 65 it would not have been in a container because they hadn't started using containers in those days. Everything was jammed in the holds of the ships.

I remember seeing two nearly new F100's on the wharf in the early 60's with their roofs cut off and stacked in the tray and when I asked what happened to them I was told that when anything including vehicles was shipped the freight cost was calculated on the length x width x height so it was a lot cheaper if you cut the roof off and shipped it in the vehicle even accounting for the fact that it had to be welded back on and the paint touched up. This is probably what happened to your car.

Why dont you run a bit of a story on it in Restored Cars magazine and you may get an answer from someone in Aust. You never know there may be a Packard coupe roof hanging in the rafters somewhere looking for a home.

As an aside, I have been trying to find out who imported my Rolls-Royce in 1947-48 and wonder if you know how to access the gov. files for this sort of thing?

[KenHupp20]

Hi Bernie, I'm glad your eyes are healing,and thankful you continue your posts.Always something of interest.

For your research on the history of your Packard you might contact the Lars Anderson Museum ( Boston,MA.USA). They have the Rod Blood collection,which I understand includes much Packard information.

Larz Anderson Auto Museum

take care,Ken

[Guest cben09]

Hi Bernie,,Now dont let any of these comments raise your blood pressure and create a problem,,,we all want you to enjoy these good things in life,,

Re breakfast,,,it was Oatmeal,,no sugar,, haha,,

Rod Blood's barn,, Rod called it the "Bloodshead"" at 92 Prince St Newton,,

is where I did much of my homework,,Rod being an engineer always had a good slant on problems,,and that, combined with the Gentle art of Punning,,!! was good fun,,

Rod's collection was Packard only,,,,even turnd down a 07 Silver Ghost,,as it wasnt a Packard,,,later to regret that decision,,,he gave the lead to James Melton,,It was the S,B,Stevens car,,from Rome Ny,,,haha,,SBS ran a Mercedes 60 in the '04 Vanderbilt,,

Rod was VMCCA president during war years,, Cheers,,Ben //Ps,,Who has car #8

w/engine #16,,,Mr Blackmore's car,,1899,,,,hmmm,,haha,,cb

[Guest donald ellis]

Bernie...are you still working with the Packard Single Six? I've made some progress with my 1922 SS. It came back from the upholsterer with the most satisfying work I could ever have imagined. Now, all that I lack is the hardware for the windscreen hold open mechanism and the on the tank fuel gauge.