My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[oldcar]

The Petrol tank has just come back from being bead blasted. Three pin holes, (potential leaks) have shown up. These will have to be soldered before it has a coat of paint. It is currently in etch primer so that the bare metal will not start rusting. Note pin hole exposed next to gauge. Apart from these three minor repairs the tank is remarkably sound and will only require a wash out to remove traces of stale petrol.

Bernie j.

Edited October 28, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Bernie, I sent you an e-mail about a 22 Packard doodlebug available in Indianapolis,Ind. let me know if you're interested. If not, I will post it here for somebody else.

If anybody's interesred in this cut-down tractor, it was advertised in "Auto-roundup for $1500 OBO. The number to call is 317-898-5065

[oldcar]

RE Dave's find.

It is not that I am rejecting it out of hand. Even at $1,500 by the time it is shipped out to Australia it would be just not be a sensible buy. Added to this while I am still looking for a few cosmetic parts, like a dash lamp and a cigar lighter, my car is very complete mechanically. I am sure that some one in the US can use a "parts car".

Bernie J.

[Guest Silverghost]

Please post more photos of your great Packard project.

We all enjoy seeing all your progress !

When do you think it will be completed ?

Did you receive your missing Disc wheel as of yet ?

The Dixie Flyer project was fantastic.

Literally a real : Out of the Ground-up Restoration " if there ever was one ! ; )

Edited October 28, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Thanks for the compliment Brad

There will be more photographs as the rebuild progresses. You will have to be a little patient with this one. 1. I am not getting any younger (74 come early November) and 2. As a retired person money has to be spread a little more thinly. Remember the GFC!

3. I would think somewhere between two to three years time.

Finally, Yes, I believe that there is a wheel "in the mail" to quote a well used phrase.

Bernie J.

[Guest Silverghost]

Curious about the Kwik-Poly product.

Does it penetrate the wood ?

Is it designed to encapsulate the wood?

What do you expect it will do for your body framework structure ?

Do you also use it on wood frame joints ?

We have a marine product here in the states called Git-Rot.

This is an epoxy designed to build-up small wood rot damage after cleaning-out all of the wood dryrot.

[oldcar]

Hi Brad

The product I am using is a local Australian timber hardener. It does not seem to be a epoxy but is very coy about what it actually contains. Painted onto aged wood it is said to bind the fibers together making it more workable and creating stronger joints. As it is said to take at least 24 hours to fully cure I really cannot comment as yet.

You will just have to be patient as we are off tomorrow morning (Friday here) for the start of the VSCC Alpine Rally. A three day event covering approximately 500 miles of mountain roads. Try putting Falls Creek, Victoria, Australia into Google maps to see where we will be spending two of the the next three nights. The local forecast is for heavy rain and near zero C over night for Saturday & Sunday.

This is a highly competitive navigation event, our car our trusty 1934 Lagonda Rapier two seater. Photograph below.

[oldcar]

1934 Lagonda Rapier, 1500cc 2 ohc, 2 x 1 1/2 in SU carbs 9.5:1 comp 4 speed ENV close ratio preselector trans. Bought as a broken down 1 1/2 seat racing car in 1978, rebuilt and driven countless miles since. We return Monday evening so no more posts until then.

Bernie J.

Edited October 28, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

Bernie,

It's been interesting to watch your progress on your 1923 Packard Single Six. There's something to be said for the innovation of the "owner-driven" luxury car that Packard helped introduce, and I like this class of car.

It's great making the connection between you and the series of articles about the Dixie Flyer that have been in the AACA Antique Automobile magazine.

Regarding Lagondas, have you ever heard of an actor named Sebastian Cabot? He was in some American TV shows in the 1960's. A friend of my dad's knew him and told us he liked Lagondas (apparently he owned a 1937 Lagonda De Ville Town Car).

I wish you the best of luck at your Victoria Sports Car Club Rally!

----Jeff

Edited October 30, 2010 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Ozstatman]

.........I wish you the best of luck at your Victoria Sports Car Club Rally!----Jeff

Should be Vintage Sports Car Club of Victoria.

The Vintage Sports Car Club of Victoria

[oldcar]

Hi Mal

Technically you are right but when I joined the club in 1962 it was the VSCC of A (Vic Div)

The car radiator badge that I bought at the time of joining and that has been on what ever (proper) car I have owned from time to time clearly says Vintage Sports Car Club of Australia. The other badge on the car simply says Vintage Sports Car Club. With that club I have been a member since 1979. My Honorary Life Member lapel badge says Vintage Sports Car Club of Australia. In my opinion the change of the Clubs title was simply to meet the requirements of some small minded government bureaucrat.

About 60% of the dozens of trophies that adorn the shelves in my den all refer to competition successes within Vintage Sports Car Club of Australia events. I keep the Trophies from OVERSEAS Events, mainly for competition in the UK and France, in another room. I am afraid that old saying about teaching old dogs new tricks is in my case 100% accurate.

Bernie J

Past President and Honorary Life Member VSCC of A (Victoria)

Australian Secretary and Honorary Life Member The Rapier Register (UK) Joined in 1960s.

25+ year member VSCC (UK)

20+ year member Vintage Drivers Club (Australia)

Member AACA

50+ year member Royal Automobile Club (Victoria)

Member Packard Owners Club of Australia.

Edited November 1, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

To digress for a moment the concept of the Alpine trial is probably quite strange to many people who are following my thread. The VSCC here in Victoria, Australia is all about driving your "proper" car. Last weekend a long weekend linked to the famous Melbourne Cup (a horse race) we (my wife Helen & I) were competing in the Alpine Trial in our 1934 Lagonda Rapier (see above)

The route took us (three days) over some extraordinary roads, many gravel high into the Victorian Alps. This major event is run Bi-annually and on this occasion we covered over 800 miles, door to door. Spring in Victoria, Australia is known for extremely variable weather and this weekend was a classic example, with over four inches of rain falling during the three days! Yet apart from one day, Sunday, we motored with the top down. Even then for much of the day we were driving in bright sunshine, alternated by fog, driving rain and howling gales, with the temperature down into single figures (centigrade). Set average speed to be maintained throughout the trial was 40 mph (miles per hour) meaning that to compensate for getting down to 20 mph or less on some of the really steep and often gravel sections that speeds up to 70 mph were called for where possible to maintain the required average. This years Alpine Trial had over 50 entries with the most popular marque among the actual starters was Bentley (14) followed by Vauxhall 30/98 (5) Lagonda (3 Rapiers & 1 Rapide) Delage (4) Alvis (3) and one each Alfa Romeo, MG, Oakland, Chrysler, Frazer Nash, Lancia Lambda, Talbot, OM, Minerva, Rolls Royce, Bugatti, & Hispano Suiza. A veritable who's who of pre WW2 motor cars. The oldest the 1920 Talbot and the newest a 1937 Alvis Speed 25, this last mentioned the only lady driver.

Edited November 2, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

And more.... I forgot to mention some of the roads travelled are closed (impassable) for four or five months each year.

N.B. Not a trailer in sight (or even present) every car was driven to the start, at Benalla about 120 miles form Melbourne and home from the finish at Milawa about 150 miles. The final day started at 9.00 am and we eventually arrived home at 7.30 pm.

The Bentley Drivers Club had incorporated the Alpine Trial into their National Rally with several cars coming from interstate, some coming from as far away as Queensland.

Bernie J.

Edited November 2, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Tom M]

Hi Bernie,

Some of them are sure not trailer queens are they. It is great to see them out on the road like that. Thanks for taking the time of sharing your adventure and pictures with us. Now get back to that beloved Packard of yours. It wants to be out on the road with the rest of the touring cars

[oldcar]

Hi Tom

Sorry about the diversion. It will be some little time before the Packard is ready to rally but It certainly will be out on the road once it is finished. Funny thing, that is why motor cars have wheels. My main club here in Victoria, Australia even runs an event specially for cars with rear wheel brakes only. All good fun!

Right now I am busy sanding all the paint off the cowl, not all that exciting. All the aluminium panels are now ready to go to Arron for some minor repairs and refitting to the frame. Next step is dismantling all the suspension and lifting the motor & gearbox out.

Bernie J.

Edited November 3, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

No apologies needed, Bernie!! Fantastic cars. WOW. That would have been a fun trip. I envy you.

Keep up the good work.

Ben

[oldcar]

Back to work!

The last of the paint is now off the cowl and to fill in time I started to scrape some of the gunk off the sides of the crankcase and oil pan (sump). I would really like to know where this car had lived before coming to Australia. (I hope that West can find room for my letter/short article on this subject in the next issue of the Antique Automobile). The sides of the oil pan are coated with a layer of a mixture of oil and clay up to half an inch thick and baked on with a degree of hardness that even Mr Rockwell would have difficulty measuring. I started out with a paint scraper but have had to resort to a two inch wood chisel and a light hammer. Next step a heavy hammer????

Bernie J.

Edited November 5, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

I know from our visit to some parts of the eastern side of the US of A earlier this year that it sometimes can rain quite heavily but I have some difficulty relating to the gutter installed inside the luggage trunk lid on the Packard. By local standards this would have to be considered a serious storm water drain.

The gutter is 3/4 inch wide and one inch deep while the tube draining water to the underside of the car is one inch in diameter.

There should be no problem with water damaged luggage!

Bernie J

[Earl B.]

Bernie, many southeastern states have lots of red clay...B

[oldcar]

Hopefully one of the older AACA Members may remember the car being shipped to Australia. The more I look at it the more I come to believe that the car has been off the road for at least 40 years and possibly a lot longer. How long it has been hiding in a "bond" store in Melbourne is anyone's guess. There was the famous example of three brand new 1928 Wanderers (German) that were eventually sold at a Customs sale in the late 1960s or early 70s. Still in their original packing cases! A VSCC Friend has one that still has not done 1,000 miles. (from new) He is still looking for the Dealership so he can get his FREE First Service!

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Going back to the Alpine Trial. Oakland fans will be pleased to learn that John and Marg Cox in the 1926 "654" won the event outright. We followed them for quite some distance maintaining a steady 60mph. Well Done!

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

More boring stuff today. I finally got the right hand side splash tray removed to expose that side of the oil pan. More baked on gunk to be chiselled off. Oh Joy!!!

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hi

The post lady delivered the package bringing the door latches on Friday afternoon (yesterday our time) and I must admit I was rather disappointed when I unpacked them. Yes, I had been warned that they were a bit rusty but these were rusted solid. The vendor had very kindly given then a thorough drenching with some penetrating oil so that was a good start. First thing this morning it was raining outside so there was nothing to be done but to get started into fixing them. Now six hours later I am pleased to report that both have been totally stripped, all the component parts given a good going over with a wire brush fitted to my angle grinder then sand papered by hand as necessary, lubricated with wheel bearing grease, re assembled and given a first coat of paint. They are now hanging up to dry.

Bernie J.

Edited November 13, 2010 by oldcar
spelling mistake (see edit history)

[Scotts_DG8]

Bernie,

Too bad on the rusty part but in the end it seems to have turned out rather well. I’ve worked with parts that looked as bad. What I’ve discovered was that after dismantling the part as much as possible a bit of media blasting in the blast cabinet to clean it followed by wire wheeling the part the part more often than not comes out looking nearly new. Just curious. Scott…

[oldcar]

Thanks Scott

The one problem is that in my extremely basic little workshop (and I mean little as in single car garage) things like compressors and blast cabinets are just a dream.

Major items like large panels (fenders etc) and the chassis frame mean renting a pick-up and a 20 mile drive each way with two trips a week or two apart. one to deliver the other to collect the blasted parts. With the cost of the pick up rental and the charge for the blasting this can add up to almost $1,000 depending on the size and number of parts I can fit into a pick up. The alternative to renting a pick-up is multiple trips in my little '85 Alfa Romeo "33" hatch-back. For one reason or another large parts like the Packard chassis frame just wont fit in through the hatch. That is unless I cut it up into pieces, something I am reluctant to do. However I do find that a wire rope wheel in my angle grinder gets rid of a lot of rust and a bench grinder/wire-brush helps for small parts.

Bernie J.

Bernie J.

Edited November 13, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

True confessions time.

In addition to my reply to Scott here is a photograph of "where it all happens". We live on a suburban one fifth of an acre block in a house we built some 40 years ago. It has four bedrooms and two bathrooms a two car carport and a small single car garage/workshop. Helen drives a now 4 year old VW (Turbo Diesel) Jetta and my daily driver is a 1985 Alfa Romeo "33" hatch-back The VW lives in the carport and the Alfa outside.

" I have just celebrated my 74th birthday and have been retired about 15 years. 8 years ago I had major surgery for bladder cancer. At that time I had my bladder replaced with an (after-market) "neo-bladder" fabricated from a piece of my small intestine. At the same time I had my right kidney and my prostate removed. Some twelve months earlier I had a spinal laminectamy (two vertebra welded together) to overcome a serious chronic back problem. In addition to actually working on my restorations with my own two hands, I write articles (such as the "Return to Louisville" for the Antique Automobile) for the Automobile magazine in the UK and for two or three local car club magazines. Together with my wife Helen we take an active part in VSCC (Victoria Australia) competitive road events in our Lagonda Rapier two seater, a car that we have owned since 1978 having bought it as a broken-down racing car. The "Rapier"has also taken us on five or six visits to the UK and Europe. We are certainly not millionaires in fact far from it. We have four children (3 sons & 1 daughter) and 9 grandchildren. Cars such as the Packard and the Dixie Flyer are referred to as my "Project Cars" and tend to be sold on once the restoration is completed. This in part finances the next "project". I am a compulsive rescuer of basket cases and cars that no one else in their right mind would ever even think about taking on let alone fully restoring. In the past these projects have taken around 12 to 18 months to complete. As I have grown older and my standard of work has hopefully improved they have tended to take a little longer. I have lost count of the number of such restoration projects that I have successfully completed.

I am not a collector and generally look on collectors as selfish people, denying less fortunate people the opportunity of owning and enjoying an Antique Automobile.

Finally my creed is that God put wheels on Automobiles so that people could DRIVE them not so they could roll them into trailers.

I hope that I have not offended too many people but at least you know where I am coming from!

Bernie J.

P.S. To work in the "garage" I must first put the Lagonda outside. When it rains it gets wet.

Edited November 14, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

Bernie,

I think everybody is impressed with your work. Understanding the conditions that you are working in makes it all that much more impressive. Hope we get to follow your progress on this project as well as maybe a few more down the road. Thanks.

[Scotts_DG8]

Bernie,

First of all its I that hopes I did offend. I believe that I noted in your Dixie Flyer thread that your work is amazing. I’ve always followed your posts and enjoy them all. Your confessional, although not needed, just adds to my respect for all that you do. I can only hope that I am fortunate enough to remain as active and feel just now that there might be more that I could be doing. I concur that being able to follow along with your progress on this project not unlike the Dixie Flyer is a treat and I too hope that there will be more to follow.

<O:p</O:pJust to give a bit of my personal background. I’m on the back side of my 50’s and although I own my own small home and it has a decent size garage I’m not exactly rolling in money. My garage/shop was a personal objective and it took me years to get it to where it is as but in a lot of ways does not stand up to oh so many out there. I too am in a situation where I have to pull a car out into the driveway to work on it but only because of the “Collection” of cars that I have. I would consider myself a collector in the sense that the 4 older vehicles that I own have been bought over time (mostly the last 20 years) as/when an opportunity arose. The plan is that all of my vehicles will be driven someday. I have a passion (illness) for old cars and trucks and probably have some sort of romantic mental association to the period in time each represents. I could easily be a hoarder of project cars if money were no object only because I dread ever seeing an fine example hot rodded/resto-rodded whatever term might be used. But alas I can’t save them all and besides my personal vision is not the all mighty word or view and others should have an opportunity to chase their vision/dream.

<O:p</O:pIn closing I think I also stated in the Dixie Flyer thread, it takes passion, skill and an eye for art which you for sure have. I will continue to be a rabid fan, waiting for your next post/update. Scott…

[oldcar]

Thank you Matthew & Scott

Having just returned from my weekly game of Petanque I am about to start work again on replacing the door-jams before removing the body frame to take to Aaron so he can start on refitting the body panels.

Scott, I admire you passion about saving cars from potential destruction/hotrodding but all to often I see people here in Australia who have saved cars but only to line them up out in the weather to await a slow death by rusting away. I have to be very strict with myself only to have one project car at a time. That way my efforts are concentrated and the cars that I start get finished.

Several of my Dodgey friends would love to see some current photographs of your DG8 coupe.

Bernie J

Edited November 15, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hi y'all

Just to keep you up to date here are a couple of photographs of this afternoon's work. The replacement door jam for the right hand side door. The original had been somewhat cut about and the wood was splitting away from the door post. This had to be cut away and a new jam made from good old Australian "Mountain Ash" (Eucalyptus) A nice straight grained hardwood.

Note that I am using as much of the original timber frame as possible. in the second photograph I show the door gap this will still need some adjustment by moving the hinge in or packing out as required. The knob for the new door latch can be seen projecting an inch or so above the top of the door

Bernie J.

Edited November 15, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Scotts_DG8]

Bernie,

I agree about parking a car in the weather after spending a good amount of time making it presentable again. The thinking probably is that after putting a good new coat of paint on the outside/topside of the car and maybe changing the rubber seals it’s good to go outside again forgetting about the moisture coming up from underneath. Who really knows what the thinking or rational is though.

As far as the DG8 goes, I don’t have real current pictures as I’d not really spent too much time on this car as yet. I do have some though that others might find interesting which I will try to find the time to upload into an album in the next day or two. I’ve been picking up the few missing parts it needs here and there as I come across them, it’s now though mostly a 99% complete car. There is a bit of a story as to why it’s not being worked on yet but this isn’t the place for going into that right now, this thread/story is about your Packard.

Oh, and good job on the door frame wood. A wood frame is a bit of artwork in itself. Scott…

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Okay, Bernie, this old fellow from "up above'" desires an explanation of "Petanque". Sounds sinister!

Again, good work. I, as others, look forward to your reports. Thanks.

Ben

[oldcar]

No Mystery about Petanque! It is the game of French Bowls played with metal balls about the size of a base ball or slightly smaller. We (Helen & I) play with the local U3A group (University of the Third Age) It can be highly competitive, there are about 30/40 players in our group. Games are played between teams of two (three balls each) or three players (two balls each). Points are awarded to the balls from the same team closest to the "kitty or jack". It is a game commonly played in France particularly in the south. It can be played in any open space preferably with a gravel surface, often car parking places or in special areas set aside for the purpose in parks and squares. Try entering "Petanque" into your search engine (Google).

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Scott

The people who get under my skin are the ones who "collect" cars and simply line them up out in the paddock WITHOUT doing anything to them. They will proudly tell you that they OWN "so many" Vintage & Classic Cars. Most if not all are slowly sinking into the ground and rusting away. Very often these collectors either die or get too old to be interested, and move into a home for geriatrics. Then the scrap man moves in and makes a "killing" in every sense of the word.

Meaning that other (less fortunate) ENTHUSIASTS are denied the chance to own, restore and drive a car while many of these "Collectors"cars are lost for ever.

Bernie J.

[Scotts_DG8]

Bernie,

<O:p</O:pI do understand completely. I also seen cars sitting, often not covered, dissolving under the weight of elements, it can be quite a disheartening sight. Though I am at the maximum number of cars that I can store/own at this time (see picture, this is before reorganized the garage), it still does bother me when I come across one that has a sad look about it that pulls at me. Although I also too come across cars that I would like to save but more often than not a lot of these cars will fade away because it is an old car so by default is worth a lot of money to the owner if he would even think of selling it, after all it’s not the owners place to consider the cost (time/labor/money) to bring it back to life. And, of course you know if it is not one of the “popular” cars where money often is no object it will probably fade away because of lack of interest in paying the asking price and when the price does drop the car’s not worth saving then.

<O:p</O:pOne last point/comment on my part. I’ve been told that I’ve got an eclectic “collection” and that I should focus on one type of car or another which leads into being told that I should sell some of the cars that I have. Each of the cars that I own represent something special to me and is without question tied to the era they were built in. I know I’ve disappointed several people when I stop any conversation on selling any one of them but that’s the way it is.

<O:p</O:pOk, enough of the sideline talk. I hope that you are being productive because I, like many here, want to see the finished product. Scott…<O:p</O:p

[oldcar]

Hi Scott

When I am not being side tracked by all sorts of obscure issues that are fun to pursue I try to do something constructive on my current project every day. It gives me a good reason to wake up and get out of bed apart form all the other things I enjoy. I have just finished mowing the grass. Please note I refrained from saying lawn. Our garden is about 80% Australian Native plants and there has to be some open space for when the grandchildren come to visit. This is mainly indigenous grasses but it still has to be cut during the spring and early summer or we may loose one or two infants.

Smart people who know their way around Google Earth can put in Glendora Lane, East Doncaster, Victoria, Australia. Our place is the one right at the end hidden by all the Gum (Eucalyptus) Trees.

Have Fun

Bernie J.

[MCHinson]

Bernie,

Do you mean this one?

[oldcar]

Hi Matthew

Go to the top of the class. You got it in one. Sorry, you can't see the Packard or me working on it. All those trees get in the way. At least you now know what Melbourne suburbs look like from an orbiting satelite.

Bernie J.

[Guest Silverghost]

It looks like nothing is a secret anymore from big brother's spy in the sky !

Bernie:

Did you have to chase some poor Koala Bear out of his tree before you could harvest the

eucalyptus "Mountain Ash"hardwood for your Packard's body framework ?

Edited November 17, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Sorry Brad

I would have to travel at least 15 to 20 kilometres to see a Koala, all we have in our trees are lots of birds and the occasional possum. We don't have any problems with Kangaroos either although my wife occasionally sees some on the golf course.

At present most of our Australian hardwood timber comes from overseas. From Tasmania....... Having said that we do have one of the beautiful "spotted gum" trees in the front garden. The same variety of Eucalyptus that provided the timber for the Dixie Flyer dash and steering wheel rim, but not from our tree.

At about 40 ft high it is probably almost big enough to be milled but then we would have to wait another 40 to 50 years for another to grow to the same size.

Despite all this I have actually done some more work on the Packard today, fitting up the drivers side door. I should be able to lift the body frame off the chassis in the next week or so and start work on the mechanicals.

It always amazes me what you can find on the internet. I can probably learn your home phone number, full address and age group then look at your front yard and get detailed instructions on how to get from my place to your front door, all without leaving my desk

Bernie J.

Edited November 17, 2010 by oldcar (see edit history)