My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[oldcar]

Hello

West Peterson you may be the best person to explain this but anyone else who would like to comment is welcome.

There has been some discussion regarding the "originality or authenticity" of this Packard. I have always maintained that the ENTIRE car as it exists today is at least 85% as it left the factory! That is with the exception of the roof and the seating arrangement, it is ALL original. No not the air in the tires or the oil in the rear axle.

Now only just last weekend there was a Bentley tourer sold at Amelia Island for a miserable Two and three quarter MILLION dollars. My only question is "How much of that car is PRECISELY as it left the Bentley factory? By that I mean right down to the fabric covering the body let alone the body frame itself, the leather covering the seats and the seat frames, the fenders (or should I say "wings"), the ?????? " or does that all change because of the fact that it is, after all, a Bentley?

I know for certain of all the hundred or so Vintage Bentleys in Australia possibly there is just one or two that could be said to be (almost) original. New cylinder blocks, new crankshafts, shortened or NEW chassis frames, Red Label/Blue Label , gear boxes, the poor old SEDAN bodies long since gone, super-chargers where none ever existed before. it goes on and on!

Ra Ra Ra and Jolly Hockey-sticks! Absolutely Supaah!

But then their owners almost universally speak with a Plum in their Mouths while I probably have a Pickled Onion.

As we coarse Aussies sometimes say "It is all BU** SH*T."

Bj.

Edited March 12, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Perhaps its a difference in culture, but I think we have a communication problem. In the U.S., there is restored, and there is original.... There is not both. I'm confused because you seem to use the word when talking about a car that is not restored, and you also use it to describe a car that is restored, but retaining an authentic factory-installed body.

The way we describe your car in America is that it is restored and semi-modified.

I am not sure which Bentley you're talking about that sold at Amelia, there were three, but I can assure you that NONE sold for 2.75 million dollars. There was one W.O. Bentley, and it sold for roughly $230,000. The catalog clearly states that the car is authentic in that its chassis, engine and body have never been changed, altered or replaced. It is unclear from the way the description is worded weather the car is restored or not, but they seem to imply that it is NOT restored, just "well-maintained", meaning that it could have new paint here and there, a repaired seat, etc. It does state there are two S.U. carburetors installed, which is not authentic.

I'm not sure I answered your question, but then, I'm not quite sure what the question is.

And yes, the Bentley crowd does not seem to care that most of the cars have been rebodied... or re-engined... or re-made. They, like you, use their cars and couldn't care less about scoring points on an AACA show field.

[F&J]

Nice car, now go run the wheels off of it

Edited March 13, 2013 by F&J (see edit history)

[oldcar]

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[TD=width: 219, bgcolor: #336633, align: right]Tuesday, March 12, 2013 [/TD]

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[TD=width: 490][h=2]Bentley Tourer brings $2.75 million at Amelia[/h]

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[/TR]Gooding and Company had a particularly good day at Amelia Island this year, topping more than $28 million in sales at its March 8 event and setting five world record sale prices. A whopping 10 cars sold for more than a million dollars, two of them for more than $2 million.

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Edited March 13, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Gooding and Company had a particularly good day at Amelia Island this year, topping more than $28 million in sales at its March 8 event and setting five world record sale prices. A whopping 10 cars sold for more than a million dollars, two of them for more than $2 million.

[dan at larescorp]

Bernie, If I had the money I would have been on a plane to come take that beauty off of your hands. I'm sure there are a lot of others who have been watching this thread that are in the same boat as I. You have done something that couldn't be described any better than a miracle. You saved that old Packard from its tomb of 50 years. Not only did you bring it back to life, but you brought back its former beauty. There are a few people in the world who do not see things as I do, but don't let that ruin your hopes to sell your car. It will sell, and when it finally does you can be sure that it will go to someone who will enjoy it. Not some rich snob who wants it for an "original" lawn ornament. Take pride in what you have accomplished here.

[West Peterson]

Sorry Bernie, I didn't even realize Gooding held an auction at Amelia this year. I was looking at the RM results.

[JustDave]

hello bernie

i dont chime in to often, let me say your a gifted tribute to the old car hobby,youve saved many cars along the way that would have ended up being a chinese alarm clock,if i read a book and dont like it i dispose of it,these negative folks should do the same,as i once told you tell them all to go to hell, you open your eyes in the morning for bernie not them,as a smart man once said keep on keeping on, dave

[West Peterson]

????

As far as I am aware, there haven't been any negative posts. No one here has done anything but praise him for what he's done. :confused:

In addition, his thread has a 5-star rating.

[oldcar]

Going backward to move forward, returning to the cars I have owned/restored. Going all the way back to 1956 The first two photographs are of the same 1925 Citroen 5CV. For those ignorant of these things the CV label attached to French cars simply means Cheveaux Vapeur or in English, Horses of Steam. The French system of Horsepower rating predates petrol engines. This little charmer was my sole form of motorised transport for about two years. The second one, with the top up, came along in the early 1970s as an early restoration project. No it is not about to lift its rear wheel up against the Fire Hydrant.

These early Citroens actually used the famous Andre Citroen double helical gears in the rear axle, for the crown wheel and pinion. The inspiration/origin of the inverted Double chevron trade mark. Andre Citroen was a gear cutter years before he became an automobile manufacturer.

Keep on keeping on.

Bj

Edited March 13, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Following the Citroen 5CV i decidedly moved up market. The next car than comes up in my photograph albums is the Sunbeam Talbot 10hp Drop Head Coupe. This when first purchased had very faded Maroon paint and a top that had been painted with some thick black goo in an attempt to make it water proof. None of this was acceptable so this lovely little car was brought back to its former elegance with a bare metal repaint Le Mans Green a metallic green a shade lighter than BRG and a new beige top. A much admired car but lacking in performance in that it had what was virtually a side valve Hillman Minx 10 hp engine. I have never seen it again from the day I sold it. Next came a another Sunbeam Talbot only this time a "90" with an over head valve version of the two litre Humber Hawk engine. This I remember had remarkable low speed torque. On one occasion I won a bet driving it and getting it going fast enough to engage top gear running on one cylinder, with only ONE spark plug fitted.

I trust that all this is not too boring but someone did ask. I did warn you about the quality of Box Brownie black & white photographs.

At this time I was still single and living at home with my long suffering parents. The next car I do not have a single photograph of, a 1923 Lancia Lambda fitted with a later series (larger and more powerful) engine. It seems that it did not keep going long enough to take any photographs. At my mother's insistence that I buy a sensible car I traded it in on a lovely little Fiat 500c Topolino convertible coupe. To think that in the late 1950s you could trade in a Lancia Lambda and the dealer would give you enough for it to pay the DEPOSIT on a second hand Fiat 500 is hard to imagine today. Times have changed. Sadly the Fiat was written off when a drunk in a Ford Customline rammed into it sending it through a fence and a large Cyprus Pine hedge. The owner of the hedge was furious with me for making a hole in his hedge. Apparently Cyprus Pines do not regrow on old wood, so the hedge never recovered. I remember looking at the hole as I drove past some years later.

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

Edited March 14, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, thanks for sharing the memories. I sure wish I would have kept pictures of all my early cars. I do remember them all. Can hardly wait until you break into the 60s.

[oldcar]

Hi all

I am sorry to break your chain of thought but I need to go back to the Packard for just a moment.

While I was going through a container of "Useful things for the Packard"I came across the two nickel plated knurled nuts for the electrical junction box cover "similar to those which may have been originally fitted".

They have polished up nicely and certainly do look better than the couple of little "shop bought" nuts I had on there.

Again I must apologise for all the reflections. I must try to take all my photographs first thing in the morning instead of late afternoon. I will try again tomorrow (a.m.)

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

12 hours later it is drizzling rain but still some reflections

Edited March 15, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello John

There is a long way to go and there are lots of photographic gaps. Back then it usually had to be a special occasion for me to take many photographs. As mentioned previously I have owned some 18 or 20 Rileys but with the exception of one 1933 9hp unfinished project and the Side Valve 11 hp shown in an earlier post I do not have photographs of any of them. One corner of the MINI based Riley ELF does appear in one photograph of the 1924 11Hp. It is the same with Minis I have owned two Mini Coopers and a Mini MOKE but do not have photos of them either.

Bj

Edited March 15, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hi all

I have not deserted you (again), I just have a lot on my plate right now.

Keep on keeping on

Bj

[Ozstatman]

I'd promised, or maybe that was threatened, to visit Bernie if I ever had the opportunity to do so. That opportunity arose last Sunday on the way to the 15th National Packard Rally here in Australia as we, including my wife Kath and PACA members Mat and Chris, did so. Saw both the Packard and the oft mentioned Lagonda Rapier and were able to sit down with Bernie and lovely wife Helen and learn a little of their story with the Packard, the Lagonda as well as some of the other cars that passed through their hands. We had a delightful time made more so with a 'cuppa', tea or coffee, as well as Helen's lovely home made sandwiches and cinnamon tea cake. Delicious! Bernie I'd like to take this opportunity to thank both Helen and yourself for your generous hospitality on the day. Thankyou!

[oldcar]

Hello Mal

Thank you for your excellent photographs, we trust that you have arrived home safely and hope to see you again some time.

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

[oldcar]

At last a proper road journey, up into the mountains and home again without missing a beat. Even making the climb to the top of Mount Dandenong in top gear. Comfort, quiet, and effortless long legged touring. We have just returned from our first serious drive in the Packard, even the fuel consumption (or lack of it) exceeded expectations. Our destination the Combined Vintage Car Clubs Kalorama Rally. Even returning down the mountain the brakes proved to be adequate provided I kept an eye on the traffic ahead.

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

Edited March 24, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Before going out onto the public roads the one thing that I consider essential especially with a LHDrive car in a country where everybody drives on the left side of the road are some reliable turn indicators. Rather than fussing around looking for "vintage" lights that MIGHT do the job I decided that if I was really concerned with safety that I needed lights that could be seen. This being so I bought a set of four universal trailer amber lamps, an "on-off-on" switch a 6 volt flasher unit, a small amber tell-tale lamp and most importantly an AUDIBLE WARNING buzzer.

How often have you driven down the highway behind an old car with its turn signal flashing away for mile after mile. This drives motorists mad and does the collector car movement no good at all. How often have you heard "All those ***** old cars should be kept off the road! Nothing is more annoying to our fellow road users and yet the solution is so simple. The one I use is available at most electronics hobby stores for under $5. It is simple to wire in, just the red wire to the output side of your flasher unit or if a three terminal unit the red wire goes to the centre "P" (pilot or tell-tale connection) and the black wire to any convenient earth. Most are suitable for either 6 or 12 Volt. Once fitted, unless you are totally deaf, you will not drive along having failed to cancel your turn indicators, and saved a whole lot of aggravation! The unit is so small and so light that I install mine behind the dash with a postage stamp sized piece of double sided "Scotch" tape. If you do not have one make sure you do, before you use your "proper car" on the road again! In case you are wondering the coin is an Australian $2 the same size and value as our 5 cent coin used to be. If you like to go back in time a little further, a quarter of a penny, a farthing.

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

Edited March 27, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

For people who may be concerned that I have been drilling holes into the Packard to mount modern turn indicator lamps, you can rest easy! Everything about the indicator set up is designed so that it can ALL be removed without leaving a trace. Alternatively just the lamps can be taken off and put back in less that five minutes total. One pre-existing nut holds each lamp and the wires all have push together connectors that when disconnected can be easily hidden. Even the switch, tell-tale and flasher unit can be all removed in one unit without leaving a trace. If necessary, even the wiring can be removed without disturbing the main loom but this would involve a few more minutes spent underneath the car.

Keep on keeping on.

Bj.

Edited March 26, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Bleach]

I looked at a very nice driver quality 1926 Dodge last year that had signals done the same way. They could be removed and reinstalled without any damage to the original car. I would have liked very much to buy that car but it was just too slow and cumbersome for modern traffic conditions. It could really only be driven in small residential areas where speeds are 25 MPH at the most.

I'm sure the Packard is a far better car to take out on the open road.

[oldcar]

Hello Bleach

Welcome to my thread. Even with a brand new motor the Packard will cruise at 45 to 50 mph, up hill and down dale. Some people worry about rear wheel only brakes but if they are properly adjusted and you drive accordingly they are no problem. The first part of Sundays drive was through quite dense traffic due to a Free-way closure.

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

[Ozstatman]

Bernie,

We too, Kath and I, found out about a Freeway closure in Melbourne on Sunday morning. Our return journey, to Sydney from the Packard National Rally at Phillip Island, was right in the thick of it in the Coupe. And why were we there? To visit the old Kellow-Falkiner Packard dealership in Melbourne, now the ROYCE Hotel. Managed to take a pic or two of the Coupe out front, where we could have been less than legally parked!

[oldcar]

Hi Mal

I hate to tell you that was Kellow's exclusive Rolls Royce showroom in St Kilda Road, just around the corner from the posh, Melbourne Grammar School. The lesser makes were sold through their Russell Street showroom in the heart of the Melbourne. It is now a rather sleazy multi storey car park, just around the corner from China-town.

It was a nice thought anyway. Glad that you all got home safely.

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

[oldcar]

The State Government has recently disclosed that some 200 dead Crows had been found on a road near the township of Castlemaine, in North Central Victoria. Local Wildlife Officers were alarmed that these deaths may have signalled an outbreak of avian influenza.

The Government Department for the Environment and Conservation then hired an Ornithological Behavioural expert who over the ensuing six to eight weeks examined a random sample of the remains and determined that the birds had actually died from vehicular impact.

After an even more extensive and exhaustive study he also determined that 98 per cent of the deceased Crows had been killed after being hit by trucks while only 2 per cent were killed by cars.

After researching into why the results are so disproportionate and following several more weeks of investigation his report finally arrived back at the Relevant Ministers Office.

''When Crows eat road kill, they always set up a lookout Crow in a nearby tree to warn of impending danger. But while the lookout Crow could warn the other Crows with a cry of 'Cah' it had

not yet learnt to call out 'Truck'!

Edited April 1, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest PGJ45]

Hi Bernie,

Hope you are well?

Are you going to be home this Thursday early evening?

Thought I would see if Dad and David were available to come and have a look at the car?

Peter

[oldcar]

Hi Peter

I have sent you a p.m. That should be fine.

Bj.

[Ian_Greenlaw]

very funny Bernie.

That explains why they are all in my back yard !

Ian

[oldcar]

Hi Ian

Glad you appreciated what is surely pure Aussie humor. I trust that it was not entirely wasted on our American and European friends.

It seems to come up all too frequently that while we use similar words very often the language is different.

On a different subject are you going to the AOMC American Car day at Flemington on Sunday?

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

[oldcar]

Moving forward with the review of some of my earlier restorations. This time the first of a series of Dodge Fours, this one according to the present owner a 1919 would be the earliest. I sold it almost finished but waiting the installation of the motor & gearbox and a set of tyres. The new owner completed the car fitting the fenders and the wire spoke wheels. He took it to the Lake Gardner Speed Trials (a salt lake in South Australia) where it was electronically timed at over 80 mph for the flying mile.

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Impressive car...Did you do new body panels with aluminium?

[oldcar]

Hello Roger

Yes the panels are all aluminium. I like working with Aluminium for body panels, It is light and comparatively easy to work. My first choice when selecting a new project is that it comes from the late teens or early twenties. Having made something of a study of the bodies on these cars it appears that most body builders did not own an "English Wheel" and compound curves were avoided wherever possible. I have found that I can build acceptable bodies in aluminium using simple curves only. By carefully planing how each panel is cut out, joins can be kept to a minimum. Judicious use of "crescent moulding" is regarded as being normal. Some amateur body builders do use it excessively which to me is just not acceptable. The Dodge Speedster body is an example. Including the door and luggage "boot" lid there are just six pieces of aluminium sheet plus the two infill panels each side of the tail. These were formed out of the piece cut out for the luggage "boot" opening. There are six pieces of Crescent mould. One each side of the tail following the outline, One piece around the cowl one piece along the top of the door and another piece covering the join each side of the cowl.The one on the passenger side is hidden by the spare wheel.

This principal can just as easily be applied to small English sporting cars of the 1930s. The attached photographs of the little 1932 Crossley 10hp is a classic example. Most of the saloon body had evacuated out the back of my trailer by the time it had travelled approximately 150 miles on country roads. Shown also is my patent "two bow" steel tube and strip top frame.

Roger can you tell me the number of individual pieces of Aluminium used in this body?

All my restorations including building the bodies are done single handed, in the same commodious one car garage and the car-port, open to all weather. This of course using only the most basic of hand tools. An electric drill, a angle grinder and an antique gas welding kit are my most sophisticated pieces of equipment.

Perhaps this explains why I have so very little tolerance for "poseurs" who cannot start their "restoration" until they have finished building and equipping their fully air conditioned home away from home. I would expect that a power operated recliner chair is the first piece of equipment purchased. An absolute must for fully technicolor dreams!

Keep on keeping on

Bj

Edited April 7, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

The same principle was applied for building the 1930 Austin 12/Six Sports, This one the chassis was shortened to the same wheel base as the 1930s Six cylinder MGs. It had a 1500cc six cylinder engine with three SU carburettors. It now lives in Switzerland not far from you Roger. It has been repainted black as it is now used for "Historic" Ice and Snow Racing. I probably enjoy these little sporting car restorations more than the huge and exacting project that the Packard became. In retrospect I would probably been far better served to simply dispose of the original body and built a "Cheap and Cheerful" speedster. It would have cost a whole lot less and would have been sold by now allowing me to move on to my next project.

Keep on keeping on

Bj

Edited April 6, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Roger Zimmermann]

Roger can you tell me the number of individual pieces of Aluminium used in this body?

Not an easy task with just pictures. If I'm understanding your explanation well, I came to 22 panels. For example, each fender, front or rear, is made with 2 pieces. I let you complete my education!

[Landman]

I have to ask, what is a "crescent moulding"?

[oldcar]

Hello Pat

Crescent moulding is an extruded aluminium strip with an end section in the shape of a crescent. Domed on the outside radius and concave on the inside. It is commonly used as a cover strip. It usually comes in a variety of widths from 1/4 inch up to 1 1/2 inch. The one I normally use is 1/2 inch. It must be annealed to bend it horizontally. It is very useful for covering either butt or lapped panel joints.

Keep on keeping on

Bj

[oldcar]

Hello Roger

I was referring to the actual body not the entire car. There is one piece for the top of the cowl, two pieces for each side, two for the doors, one for the rear, the trunk has two sides, and a back. then there are the two little aprons covering the gap between the rear fenders and the trunk. 12 pieces in all. It all comes out of a single sheet of aluminium. The fenders are, as is the hood, the original that came with the car. Access to the trunk is via the rear seat.

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

Edited April 6, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Yesterday we braved the Freeway traffic to DRIVE the Packard to the "All American Motoring Show"

Just a random sample of the almost 2,000 cars present. You could count the trailers on the fingers of one hand!

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

Edited April 8, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

2000! Wow. That would have been like car heaven.

Ben

[oldcar]

Hi Ben

You may not have thought so negotiating the traffic jam going in at 9.30 on Sunday morning or coming out at 3.30 in the afternoon. Strangely it was only the sixties and seventies cars that seemed to be suffering from overheating and blocking the road for others. The Packard barely got to register on the motometer. The only time it got so that you could see some red was after a prolonged burst of keeping up with the "moderns" on the freeway on the way home. Even then it was a long way from the top. It does tend to get quite warm around the passengers feet. I think that I am going to have to wrap up the exhaust pipe where it passes close to the toe board. That and remember to open the cowl vent.

As I said previously there would have been no more than five or six cars NOT arrive under their own power. (ie, In trailers.)

Keep on keeping on

Bj.

Edited April 8, 2013 by oldcar (see edit history)