How much is this 1991 Reatta worth? Need opinions

[Guest turbotaguy]

My neighbor's husband recently passed and she is considering selling his Reatta. She has asked me for help in cleaning it up and establishing a selling price. I would appreciate some opinions on what you think it is worth.

The car is a 1991 Reatta convertible, one owner, and has only 8,300 miles on it. It is a black convertible with gray interior. It is loaded and all original (including the tires) except for the battery. It has been stored in a garage its whole life and never seen rain or snow. Although it has been garage stored, it was without a cover for much of the time. There are scratches and surface abrasions associated with hanging around garages for 20 years. The interior is like new with the exception of what looks like a Coke stain on the pass side. It is complete with the Reatta craftsmanship book, the original invoice sheet, and original window sticker that still looks brand new (37k for this car new - holy crap!). Obviously no rust. Beautiful car.

I'd appreciate opinions. She will probably put it on Ebay to make sure it gets a wide audience and just see what the market will bear. Thanks in advance.

[NCReatta]

Wow... this car is worth *A LOT*. As there were only about 230 (I think) '91 convertibles made, a one owner, low mileage car such at this could be worth close to $30k. Does it have a CD player? Or 16-ways seats (identifiable by a pod on the left side of the driver's side seat with 3 switches)? As for the "Coke" stain, these stains have come up on a number of cars with gray interiors, and is easily fixable. You have got a gem on your hands my friend, if you have any questions, please ask.

[padgett]

OTOH I have seen several low milage 'verts lanquish lately. A lot depends on where it is and how presentable. "There are scratches and surface abrasions associated with hanging around garages for 20 years." is going to hurt it, a few bills spent for detailing and polishing could make a major difference in value.

Fact is that few later Reattas ever sold for full sticker price so don't get facinated by it. Might look at the value of similar Allantes in your area, they tend to push Reatta prices down in front of them.

One thing, if truely pristine include a few shots of the underside of the car (best taken whiile on a lift), that is what I always look for first.

One area in particular is the battery tray, even a garaged car that is never driven may have problems here unless the battery is removed when not in use.

If you put it on ebay as a flyer, start with a very high reserve and see what happens, you can always lower but never raise.

[Guest turbotaguy]

Thanks for the input. I am not sure on the CD player or the seat option. I know there is a power seat pod on the driver door, I'll check on the seat itself.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

The optional seat and CD player isn't huge when it comes to the value of this car. Condition and miles are the big factors. Unfortunately the Reatta world has its "Ralph Naders" too who do not place a collectible value on these cars and are only familiar with the rust bucket in their driveway.

Value is 100% subjective on this car. There are very few to compare it to. Don't get in a hurry as prices are beginning to rise. It is a given that prices are soft right now so don't hurry to list. Ebay doesn't bring top dollar. I would have the car professionally detailed and list it in Hemmings. The only factor that could increase it's value is if it were to be Polo Green

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

"Original tires" would be an issue for anyone expecting to drive it home, but might be desirable for a museum queen. Only one close to this on ebay only got to $4500 not meeting reserve obviously. Need some information on whether this is in drive off condition or has been sitting unused/unmaintained for some time as well.

[wws944]

Well, my Reatta still has its original tires. We put 2k+ miles on them last september driving from Illinois to California, and they were fine. If the car has always been garaged (read: no UV exposure), and shows no obvious signs of sidewall cracking, or cord slippage, they could be ok.

That said, if someone were to drive it home, I would recommend checking the spare tire pressure, sticking to the interstate, keeping the speeds reasonable, keep the cell phone charged, and make sure your AAA membership is paid up. That is basically what we did.

[wws944]

I should add that even garage queens can have their share of problems. Fluids can become corrosive, seals can dry out, etc. First thing I did on my car was to have the coolant and brake fluid replaced. A number of small and moderate things have been fixed since then. And the clear coat on my wheels are an embarrassment...

Also agree with Steve. Presence or lack of CD player and/or 16-way seats will not affect the value of the car much. However it would be worth having a professional detailer detail it. Around here high-end detailing goes for about $3-400 range.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

I would not drive a car with 20 year old tires faster than 25 mph or however fast you think a blowout would be safe and damage free. A blowout at highway speed could cause $2000 in damage and devalue the car 10K if a fender was destroyed. No more matching vins? A tire guy told me that 7 years old is the limit for tires. His reasoning (and mine now) is that rubber is a vegetable. How long do vegetables last?

[Guest ReattaRobert]

The life of a vegetable depends on whether it was raised by organic methods or the older pesticide methods!!! (I just couldn't resist )

Rubber a vegetable - indeed !! If that be so (and it is NOT) then why do they burns so well and with such BLACK smoke?!?!

[wws944]

Seven years might be a good rule of thumb, but individual cases do vary. The OE tires on my Suburban were trash after only 3 years. Still had tread, but the sidewalls were cracking badly. You could actually start to see the cords through the cracks! I attribute this to underrated tires (load range C, whereas I've been putting load range Es on ever since), poor OE shocks (since replaced with gas-charged Edelbrocks), and sun exposure.

I do want to replace the Reattas tires soon. But I need to make a decision about the wheels first. (E.g., either have them refinished, or buy some 16".)

[padgett]

In counterpoint the private brand (Reynolds) 1993 vintage tires I just replaced on the GTO looked new in and out & never vibrated. Of course it had only gone a few thousand miles and has always been garaged in a mild climate...

[NCReatta]

hmm... '91 'vert on eBay now: Buick : Reatta : eBay Motors (item 290433917404 end time May-16-10 17:35:41 PDT)

More miles, More common color combo, new tires, all the options. Strange thing about the CD player... the man says it was a "dealer installed CD player". Does that mean it wouldn't be on the SPDI sticker? Was a CD player even put on the SPDI sitcker?

Anyways, enough of my ranting. The car claims to have a "spotless undercarriage" too. Yet, it's in Ohio... hmm...

[Barney Eaton]

If the car had the CD option, it appeared on the window sticker (1990 -1991 only) it was listed as...... "COMPACT DISC PLAYER W/GRAPHIC EQUALIZER $396.00"

It is also identifiable on the Service Parts Label as code "U1H" which is for the combination radio and CD player.... which also takes a different wire harness than the standard radio. The standard radio is shown as code "UX1" on the Service Parts Label.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[Guest steveskyhawk]

If the CD player was put in by the dealer upon request of the customer there would be nothing on the window sticker or anywhere else for that matter. Code schmode. Put in a disk and enjoy the ride.

[reattadudes]

eBay would be a great choice if you would like to see 40% (or less) of it's real value, and want to give it away. your only choice for a quality buyer would be Hemmings Motor News.

always think of selling a valuable collector car like selling a fine property. you wouldn't put an advertisment for a house reading, "nice 3 bedroom house". be sure to mention everything, including color, mileage, if it has the 16 way seat and the CD player options, the mileage, and a brief history of the car. a necessary size for the advertisement would be at least eight lines.

I certainly can't speak for your deceased neighbor, but I can speak for the families of our customers who have passed on. the familes all knew what that car meant to them, and had no intention of giving away the car that they had so much love and affection for.

your neighbor's Reatta has an extremely desirable color combination, and is the same combination as the Reatta in the full color limited edition poster featuring noted GM styling chief Harley Earl's famous Buick Y-Job.

I would put a value on this Reatta convertible in the $27,000-$34,000 range. the vast majority of Reatta owners and potential owners want the very best examples, not "fixer-uppers". if a car is priced too cheap, they won't even call.

a good example was a red 1991 convertible with 15,000 miles that was for sale on eBay last year. it was here in Arizona, and was priced with a "buy it now" of $19,500. within the first six hours of the listing, I had four customers call about the car; every one was concerned about why it was so cheap. not a single one even contacted the seller.

two of my customers paid me to go look at the car and take more photos, and wanted me to call them when I was at the car. one of my customers did buy the car for resale purposes, and it has since changed hands in the $31,000 range.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

[Jim]

I agree twice with Steve.

I recently checked Kelly blue book and I think it was NADA for a friend on the purchase of his '91 low mileage convertible. Both books show a '91 convertible worth about $ 8500. They go by auction values and not too many '91 convertibles go through auctions. They don't have a clue what some of these cars are worth.

A couple of years ago I flew to Orlando and picked up a very nice Reatta convertible with original tires. I then drove it to Naples where the next day it was driven across Alligator Alley to Miami. On the way back to Naples, the person with me was in a hurry to get back for a party so even though I felt a vibration we kept going and one of those old tires blew and took the right front fender right off the car. Fortunately Larry Keie was living in Florida at the time and he had a black fender to put on the car for my drive home.

Don't drive a car on the highway with old tires on it.

Experience.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Jim (see edit history)

[wws944]

OK, good points on old tires. Googling around, I found all sorts of opinions on this. However one of the best quotes seems to be the following:

The US has not set a standard for tire aging, the only formal consensus comes for the

British Rubber Manufacturers Association and reads:

“BRMA members strongly recommend that unused tyres should not be put into service if they are over 6 years old and that all tyres should be replaced 10 years from the date of their manufacture.”

Interestingly, there seems to be problems with retailers who are selling tires that have been in inventory for over 6 years as new. So some are pushing for disclosure laws. And BTW, the above quote includes spare tires, as they are considered "in service".

[reattadudes]

Jim,

value guides like NADA and Kelley Blue Book value a Reatta like any old car, and depreciate it at a given rate. for example, Kelley will value a 1970 Plymouth Hemi 'Cuda convertible at less than $100,000, when they regularly sell for nearly $2 million.

insurance adjusters don't use either value guide (or eBay, ever) unless you are dealing with a substandard company like Progressive. the best value guides for collector cars like the Reatta are either CPI (Cars of Particular Interest), or the Old Cars Weekly Annual Value Guide.

if Reattas were as "worthless" as Kelley or NADA would indicate, every Reatta that was in an accident would be totaled, and none would be repaired.

our daily experience is just the opposite. year after year, the average valuation that insurance adjusters arrive at (sometimes with our help; sometimes not) for a 1988-1990 Reatta coupe in average condition with 180,000 miles is $7,250. a valuation like this allows a Reatta with damage in the $5,000-$5,500 range to be repaired. 1991 models, due to their increased value, are in a price class of their own. if we are called by a customer or their insurance adjuster for assitance, over 93% of the Reattas are valued and repaired.

these valuations also do not apply to convertibles. we were involved in a repair of a 1990 driftwood convertible with 197,000 miles in Oregon last year. the car slid on an icy road, and a guardrail took out the entire left side of the car. the car was insured with State Farm, and the State Farm adjuster put a valuation on the car of $13,850. the damage was a little over $10,000, and the car was repaired.

we had another 1990 convertible in South Carolina two years ago that went even higher than that. the car was hit front and rear, as well as the passenger side. the damage was over $20,000. the insured's company, USAA , (this company is by far the best insurance company, period) called us for all of the parts and authorized the repair immediately.

the damage was so extensive that we just delivered another convertible to the body shop, and let them cut the car up to their specification.

these valuations are not just my opinion or experience, either. if you call a quality collector insurance company like Hagerty, their opening offer for coverage for a 1988-1990 coupe will be in the $12,000-$14,000 range; a 1990 convertible, $22,000-$25,000; and a 1991 convertible, $27,000-$34,000.

as a supplier of Reatta parts, I feel it is my job to make sure the values of these cars continue to appreciate, as this benefits all of us, and not keep insisting that the values are at (or below) levels of ten years ago.

absolutely nothing is gained from that.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

[padgett]

Mike deals mostly with the upper echelon of collectors, those for whom price is not really important if the car is right.

This last is very important. As described, the car is not "right" though with a relatively small investment it could be. For example the tires. If the original Goodyears I would replace with Michelins (oddly enough some Goodyears are now made in China) and place the originals in large baggies to be supplied with the car.

The need for extensive detailing is evident. To bring top dollar it will need to be in B-J condition, shiny top and bottom.

The TEVES components, particluarly the sensor cables should be perfect. All rubber components should be shiny.

Point I am trying to make is that this is a whole different level of car, the real #1 and not what plays one on TV. From the description I would make this currently a #3 easily raised to #2 (Reattas do not often travel in trailers. Yet.)

(Aside: Just was watching a rerun of the Mecom Auction in Kisimmee. One of the cars was a 1977 Trans Am with WS-6 (15x8) wheels. However WS6 was not available until 1978. No-one seemed to notice. If they miss something that easy what about the other "stuff").

Lack of rust is critical (and not Ohio "rustfree" but Orlando "rustfree", it is different). I have seen many bright and shiny cars that are less than pristine underneath. Once rust starts pushing seams apart it is very difficult to remove.

This is my dilemma with the black 'vert. Up top it shows the effects of 110,000 miles. Underneath it is very very nice, really better than the white 'vert was when I bought it. Decisions, decisions.

Meanwhile back in the case in point. To bring top dollar, it needs to not only look good, EVERYTHING must work and that means both cassette and CD. No codes atol.

Bottom line: as long as there are $1,000-$3,000 coupe and $3,000-$5,000 'vert drivers on craigslist, that is what people will expect. Once those dry up it will change. Many are still in the hands of people who look at it as a consumable item.

The economy is only part of the issue (and does not affect #1 cars anyway, that is pure limited supply and demand).

Hemmings is a very good place to advertise, Buy & Sell New Cars, Used Cars, Exotic Cars, Luxury Homes, Boats - duPontREGISTRY.com is another but unless at the quality level expected & marketted properly, it would be a waste.

The example Mike cited is typical and omitted one essential point. One like this in the conditiion described would probably sell in the $12,000 to $16,000 range on a good day. Someone who knows the proper market, is willing to invest about a grand (or two if it needs a respray), and knows how to create a proper web page/advertisment could double that. The missing ingredient is skill and effort.

Thing is that most really skilled at that level & with the facility to do it will want to double a $150,000 investment rather than a $15,000.

For now, I just want to enjoy mine and leave the concern for price to others.