Wood replacement in a 1930 Model 68

[michaelod]

As I explore deeper into my 1930 Model 68 5-window coupe, I have discovered all the wood from the back seat on back to be seriously damaged by what appear to be carpenter ants. The insects are long gone, but all the wood is like Swiss cheese and cannot be saved. I have a pretty complete set of woodworking machinery and should have no great difficulty completing the work, however my question is what type of wood to use. The original wood is so far gone it is near impossible to identify what it was without sending it out for DNA testing which is not high on my list of priorities. I have several hundred board feet of purpleheart available here which would be more than strong enough and near impervious to insect damage, however I am somewhat concerned about additional weight. Purpleheart is very dense and heavy, but the price is right as I already have a large supply for which I paid less than $1 per board foot. Would welcome any input on the subject.

Thanks,

Edited April 30, 2010 by michaelod (see edit history)

[JoelsBuicks]

Wow, I'd love to have purpleheart at $1/BF! It is very stable and strong and I can't think of a reason to not put it in the car, other than it just looks too good elsewhere. I used white oak for my structural parts because of its strength and rot resistance and I used cypress for non-structural for its lightness and rot resistance. The original wood in my '36 was white oak, red oak, maple, spruce or pine, and I believe some poplar. Since it is not likely that you'll subject the new wood to ants or water, you have lots of choices.

I'd recommend you avoid hickory and gum because of their instability and ash seems to be eaten by those powder post beetles, even after it's thoroughly dried. I used water based polyurethane to seal the wood because it soaks in well and then polymerizes to a durable and water-proof finish.

[Guest hurst01]

I have a 1929 Buick 29-27. All the wood in it is either completely gone or completely rotted. I have just enough parts from one side or the other to use as patterns and mirror the other side. I am not a wood worker, but I am a machinist and certified welder and am considering replacing the wood with metal.

They had no particular wood that they used in those days. What ever they had available is what they used. They stayed away from softer woods.

I always thought that oak was used but found out different by a professional restorer that makes wood kits. He doesn't make them for the old Buicks because of lack of demand. He offered to make the inner structure for me for $10K. That is when I figured I would use metal.

I think it would be a whole lot quicker to make it from wood but I don't have the equipment nor the wood. I have to admit, I have never heard of purpleheart.

Ed

[michaelod]

Ed,

Purpleheart is an exotic wood from South America that is extremely strong (much stronger and heavier than oak) which gets its name from the fact that it is a brilliant purple color when freshly cut. It is primarily used in cabinetry and fine furniture work. It is a difficult wood to work with in that it is very dense and has a high silica content that will dull all your tools in short order. In addition care must be exercised due to the fact that the dust while working it can cause a somewhat toxic reaction leading to severe skin rash and respiratory problems in some people.

I would think twice before replacing the wood in your car with metal. Keep in mind that the upholstery in these cars was tacked right into the wood and you will definitely want that present once you reach that stage of the restoration. Where do you live? Maybe we could trade some services. My situation is the exact opposite of yours. I am an expert woodworker but do not know how to weld (at least yet anyway).

Thanks,

Edited May 1, 2010 by michaelod (see edit history)

[michaelod]

Well I bit the bullet today an began removing the bad wood in the rear portion of my 30-68 coupe. I will complete one side before moving on to the other. Couple of points I discovered in the process that I thought I would pass on to others contemplating this task.

I was able to remove the aluminum trim covering the area where the body panels are joined without too much difficulty as the decayed wood had little grip on the nails. Reinstalling it into fresh wood however without damaging it will be a real challenge. I then carefully pried out each and every body nail on both of the joined panels. Scary! Now it looks like I am performing open heart surgery on the car.

These cars were assembled by first building the wooden skeleton and then attaching the metal body panels on top of the completed skeleton. They were never designed to remove individual members from the skeleton after the fact. This became quite apparent when I attempted to remove the long curved pieces that support the back of the car. They were assembled with most of the screw heads located on the outside of the skeleton and then the body panels were attached thus completely covering the screw heads. Therefore from the point of view of the restorer you end up with a lot of blind hidden screws with absolutely no access. In addition there were several carriage bolts that were also a major pain to deal with as the wood had decayed around the head of the bolt and it would simply spin in its bore when attempting to remove the nut.

To remove these pieces I was left with no other choice than to break up the wood and this creates a dilemma due to the fact that I wanted to use the old wood as a pattern. I managed to get them out in about four major pieces. It will be a real challenge creating the new upper supports as they are curved in multiple dimensions along with simultaneously being joined with curved open-slot mortise Joints. The compound curves must be accurate to correctly support the body panels nailed into them without bending the metal.

I’ll take my time and do this right, but I doubt I could have chosen a more difficult area of the wood to repair if I tried.

Thanks,

[Bob Engle]

I'm in the process of replacing about 50% of the wood in my 32 Buick. I am using kiln dried ash as it is as strong as oak but lghter. I am using poplar in the nonstructrual areas where wood was used for upholstery attachment. The poplar is much softer and easire for driving tacks. I saw cut through the screws that were put in from the outside and assembled with screws and bolts from the inside. I would recommend to anyone attacking partial wood replacement to make plywood pieces to fit in place of the floorpans. These pieces will help you keep everything square and true for final assembly. The door pillars are a real challenge to fabricate and install.

Bob Engle

[JoelsBuicks]

I found that although I had quite a bit of old pattern wood still intact, it had warped and twisted to the point where I didn't really want to rely on it to get the curves right. Now I'm talking about the doors on a 36 Roadmaster here with curves from top to bottom as well as front to back. What I did was got some cheap 1/4" plywood panelling and a small block plane. My goal was to replicate the curve of the metal on the thin piece of plywood and then use the plywood to scribe the curve onto the replacement wood. This is a trial and error effort that goes really quickly if you can somehow get the intial bandsaw cut about right. Basically you are using the block plane to fit up the plywood pattern to the curvature of the metal. The high points on the wood are shaved until there are no low points/gaps.

[ralley123]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2010 at 1:13 AM, hurst01 said:

I have a 1929 Buick 29-27. All the wood in it is either completely gone or completely rotted. I have just enough parts from one side or the other to use as patterns and mirror the other side. I am not a wood worker, but I am a machinist and certified welder and am considering replacing the wood with metal.

They had no particular wood that they used in those days. What ever they had available is what they used. They stayed away from softer woods.

I always thought that oak was used but found out different by a professional restorer that makes wood kits. He doesn't make them for the old Buicks because of lack of demand. He offered to make the inner structure for me for $10K. That is when I figured I would use metal.

I think it would be a whole lot quicker to make it from wood but I don't have the equipment nor the wood. I have to admit, I have never heard of purpleheart.

Ed

 

[ralley123]

my names troy did you find anyone to make wood parts for 1929 buick  if you did  you can call 717-965-6645 thanks  troy

[Terry Wiegand]

Anything can be done if money, skill, and patience are present in unlimited quantities.  Most people are lacking in all three.  Keep this thought in mind - it was done once before without computers - it can be done again using modern technology.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[Edward Hurst]

It's been a while since I was on thins forum and it would not accept my login information anymore, so I had to change it.  I was never able to do anything to my 29 Buick because I was trying to help build a 1938 Chevrolet truck and a 1937 Cadillac 70-19,  Both of the owners said they would help me on mine,  Didn't happen and should have known better.

I wish I could find someone that was doing the "Skeleton" work that had pictures as he/she progressed.  I am getting up in age and really don't feel like working on the old Buick.  I can do fine and long as I have someone working with me but seems like I can't get going on my own.  Even if it was just someone sitting watching, or talking to.

I see there has been a couple of posts on this topic since I was on here, sorry that I hadn't replied.  As anyone that read my first post might have picked up on, I am not putting this car back original.  When I purchased it there was a Chevrolet 6 cylinder engine with automatic transmission in it.  I pulled all the suspension out from under it and and gave it to a friend in Canada, as wells the interior and wheels.  I wish I had kept it now, but I had no where to keep it.

I replaced the complete front suspension with a new independent front suspension with coiler springs.  I replaced the rear differential with a late (at the time) model 9" Ford rear end.  I figured it up the other day and to the best of my recollection, I have about $30,000 tied up in it, not including the fuel injected engine and 4 speed automatic transmission.

I know this goes against the grain of some restorers but there was already too much missing from the car to put it back original.  The body is almost in excellent condition with only one rust place in the left front cowl about the size of a silver dollar.  The paint is almost good enough to buff out without painting.  If completed, the car will have all the necessities of a late model car including air conditioning..

If anyone within a reasonable distance is attempting wood replacement in a Buick of the era and would not mind I would like to come and see your process.

 

Thanks, Ed

[Robert Engle]

When I replaced the wood in my 1932-58, I was happy to find that almost all the wood was flat on two sides with curvature on either one or both sides.   This allowed me to plane the wood to thickness and then band saw the curves on the other sides.  For the door pillars that have metal on 3 sides, I made the pieces out multiple thin pieces and glued them together piece by piece.  On the use of ash, I have some stored in my shed for over 20 years with no signs of beetles.  Out in the southwest this could be a problem. Ash sure works up well and is much lighter than oak.  

 

Bob Engle