Transmission rebuild 1985

[sosuzguy]

I just experienced my 2nd transmission rebuild on an 85 Riv. The first one went fine. The 2nd car seems to have some problems. Any ideas/suggestions - from experience? Thanks

Edited July 29, 2010 by sosuzguy (see edit history)

[sosuzguy]

Still after sitting over night when you first put the car in drive it's like it's in neutral, then wham- takes off just fine.

The shop is blaming a check valve ball that's in the trans filters. Says the first one for some reason sucked it into the valve body and it imploded into little pieces. Can anyone confirm if the check valve that keeps fluid in the trans is indeed in the filter and could one possibly sit on a shelf long enough to crack and go bad? Thanks

Edited July 29, 2010 by sosuzguy (see edit history)

[tim63riv]

Jayson,

The 325-4L transmission in your car did have a GM bulletin about delayed engagement cold. The torque converter s located rather high up in the transmission compared to other transmissions of the time. The converter had a tendancy to "drain back" through the filter. The converter would then need to filll back up before any power could be transmitted through it, which takes a couple of seconds.

The "fix" for the problem came from installing a check valve into the transmission case in the passage where the filter mounts to the case. I don't know if the aftermarket included the check valve in replacement filters or not, but I have never seen one.

Hope this helps,

Tim

[Jolly_John]

Hi, Jayson. I Googled your transmission number and the words " filter check valve", and this listing for a filter kit came up:

#54010D Filter, 325-4L 1982-85

Updated filter has the check valve in it.. Common brand - SPX

So, it appears your tranny shop wasn't giving you a line of bs. I guess I would wonder why you're still getting the cold delayed engagement if they put in one of the filters with the built-in check valve. Good luck. John

Edited May 27, 2010 by Jolly_John (see edit history)

[tim63riv]

Jayson and John,

Good to know about the aftermarket check valve and filter combination! You have to determine if it is converter drain back that is causing the cold delayed engagement.

The diagnosis is very simple. Drive the car for about ten miles and then park it on a level spot and shut it off. Let it sit for about 2 minutes to let the fluid from the transmission parts drain back to the pan. Pull the dipstick and wipe it off and reinstall it. Now, pull the dipstick and see where the level is. I sometimes put a small, tight-fitting rubber o-ring on the dipstick in the location of the trans fluid level. Let the car sit over night and then recheck the fluid level without starting the car! If the fluid level is 1/2 inch or more above the o-ring, your torque converter is draining back. If the fluid level is right around the o-ring, the problem is somewhere else in the transmission!

Let us know what you find!

Tim

[Guest pfloro]

The documentation for the Transgo Shift Kit which I had installed when my 325-4L was first rebuilt (77,000 miles) includes the following information:

Reduce Drainback Complaint: Place the front pump on the convertor and check the clearance between the pump bushing and converter with a .005" feeler blade. If it's tight DO NOT REPLACE THE BUSHING, a new one will be even looser.

I don't know if the pump bushing was ever replaced on my 325-4L. However, I do occasionally experience delayed cold engagement. It's totally random and several weeks may pass between occurrences. This has gone on for perhaps 100,000 miles & has not become more frequent. It even persisted after the second rebuild @ 175,000 miles. I view it as an idiosyncrasy of the 325-4L which otherwise became very reliable after the addition of the Transgo Shift Kit.

When it happens, I simply shift back into Park and up the idle speed a bit. This allows the fluid to more quickly refill the converter. Then after 15 or so seconds, I return to curb idle and shift into gear. It works every time (just rolled over to 191,000 miles).

Paul

Edited May 27, 2010 by pfloro (see edit history)

[sosuzguy]

Well if this isn't all very interesting. I've never heard about this problem from anyone in the past. SO are you saying that these transmissions have these characteristics? Buick allowed these cars on the road with this intermittant problem?

I wonder why these things only happen to me? It's real funny the first trans rebuild on a different car two weeks prior isn't having these problems related to the SB. hum...

@John - The trans shop says the filters with check valve balls have been sitting on the shelfs so long the material has cracked and dryed up - hence the trans sucking the check valve ball thorugh the filter and into the valve body of the trans.

Edited July 29, 2010 by sosuzguy (see edit history)

[sosuzguy]

TIM - I am transmission dumb where it comes to these. Regarding the SB you mentioned about adding a check valve -- do you remember or know if this SB has the technican install a check valve that's not removed with the filter? It almost sounds like installing a check valve that's separate from the filter and using a regular filter is the way to go. Especially since the check valve balls from the last two filters have been sucked down into the valve body!

[tim63riv]

Jayson,

The check valve was a separate piece, a aluminum sleeve that had a round nylon disc on the top that could move up as the pump sucked fluid from the pan and then seated against the top of the sleeve when the engine shut down, effectively sealing off the converter from draining back. You then used a regular filter and the problem was solved.

I have had mixed results with some aftermarket fixes over the years, I go for OEM whenever I can!

Tim

[sosuzguy]

Tim were these check valve sleeves something ya made in the shop locally there or was there a part to buy? I want one of the check valves installed permantely if I can. Thanks

[sosuzguy]

I am still having problems with the transmission rebuilds in my two cars. I just talked to the rebuilder who might get on here and post about the problems he has been having with one of mine so he can network a little. The first rebuild is going well except now it's beginning to drain back now. He says they will drain back after a week or so?!?! He says he has checked with ATSG ATRA and everywhere he can call/look/email NO ONE has these check valves that were made to fix this problem and the filter with a check valve in them are all so old the check valves are not holding. I'm posting this because I keep getting the impression ROA members up North have no problem at all getting parts or getting rebuilds done. If any of you have any experience -- when and if I can get him to post on here -- I would appreciate your help. Thank you in advance.

Those of you who have had your transmissions rebuild in the last few years are you experiencing this problem???

Edited July 29, 2010 by sosuzguy (see edit history)

[sosuzguy]

Update:

I just spoke with the trans shop service manager. He said the valve body and front pump in my car is badly wore out. He's tried to get rebuilt ones from a place called Trans Star but all of the reman units were worse than the originals I had. Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas? Again I'm totally stumped on this. Thanks...

[Booreatta]

Jayson mine is still in the tranny shop but I talked to the owner and he told me when they pulled the pan off there was some debris from the first rebuild. He said that it could cause some shift in the car. I wish that I could find another car that uses the 325-4l to make a comparison. Anybody in Kansas have one of these cars?

[sosuzguy]

Ya know after my first rebuild they found debris in the valve body. It was supposedly the check valve ball from inside the new filter!

[Booreatta]

Thanks I will pass that info along also. I have found an 83 Riviera Convertible for sale and I am going to take a look at it. I hope to be able to drive it and might even be interested in buying the car. Is the tranny the same model in the 83 and 84?

The beat goes on

Chuck

[RivNut]

The '79 - '81 Rivieras had the 3 speed automatic, and from '82 - 85, the o/d trans was used.

[Booreatta]

I went and drove an 83 Riviera convertible and the tranny shifted great. While I spent just a short time driving I now know what they are supposed to be like. I have contacted my Tranny shop and have now replaced the Torque converter and should have the car back on monday and cross my fingers things will be right. Will keep everybody posted.

[sosuzguy]

Please ask your transmission shop where they are buying hard parts for your trans. I want to suggest that place to mine. Thanks

[Booreatta]

Please ask your transmission shop where they are buying hard parts for your trans. I want to suggest that place to mine. Thanks

Update

Picked up my car today yes on Sunday, my mechanic was working and drove car home and WOW what a difference. So far the shift points are correct and smooth. He told me he went thru the entire tranny again and checked everything and It is a lot different than it was after the first rebuild. I hope it stays working well. I did ask him where he purchases his hard parts and he told me it was a local company here in Wichita. The name of the company is A&Reds Transmission Parts You can look at their web site at www.areds.com I have heard that they are reliable. I know they have been in business for a long time, but because I don't know anything about trannys I have to trust other people

Will keep everybody updated as time goes by

Chuck

[Guest TheGerm]

I could of swore Sonnax made a fix for the drainback issue but couldn't find any info on it. Its been a long time sense Ive dealt with the 325-4l trans. but its worth a look. Sonnax makes some very good fixes though so if they have one I recommend it. Good luck.

[sosuzguy]

Thank you Chuck and Germ, I forwarded this info to the shop.