1990 Instrument Cluster

[KDirk]

mongeonman-

The symptom you describe sounds more like a network failure than a simple IPC problem. When the ECC (climate control head) and the AC Programmer ("black box" inside dash on passenger side) are offline, the default/fallback mode is high blower in defrost mode. this was done so that if your climate control fails in winter, it will still defrost the windshield by default, ensuring the car can still be driven safely (keeping the windshield clear).

Could be a bad AC programmer, bad ECC, a wiring issue, or even a bad CPS (on the 1990 models) I suppose. Some troubleshooting will likely be required, beyond simply swapping parts. Then again, the fact that restarting the car clears the problem at least temporarily, I would think it may be a bad/failing module, rather than wiring.

KDirk

[Ronnie]

mongeonman,

Be certain you have cleaned and tighten the wires in the ground junction box behind the battery before swapping parts. Most of the electronic components in the Reatta are grounded there. A bad ground could cause all the problems you describe.

[KDirk]

Ronnie,

Very good advice. I tend to assume (and I shouldn't) that this, and the battery voltage, would already have been checked and ruled out in cases like this. These two items are the cause of many malfunctions and are so easy to check that many people overlook them in the belief that the problem is something more serious.

KDirk

[padgett]

Is the ALDL cover in place ? Has a jumper to complete the LAN loop.

[Guest joereatta]

BUMP

[Guest joereatta]

My instrument cluster went out when I removed the fuse for my cruise control. Turns out that that was the fix. probed, jiggled in that area and dashboard returned. I think it was fuse slot #8, a 3 amp fuse. Hooray!

[bwarren]

Display repair update,

I completely struck out trying to find replacement components for my dead instrument cluster. I finally bought a repaired unit online. I took my new replacement unit apart so I could identify what work had been done. It looked like all the pins for the main connection were touched up. A couple of the boards are connected by ribbon cables (if these ribbon cables are flexed to many times, the wire brakes), the solder connections for these cables were also touched up. I believe these solder connection affect the error/00 fault problems.

<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

The seller indicates that modifications are also made to improve the unit. I believe this includes replacing 3 of the components that my original display had failed for. The components replaced were C25 (Metal-Foil capacitor 630V .047mf, $1.62</SPAN>) original value (400V .047mf). Q6 + Q7 (MJE 182 JB913) original value (R920 266-1). Q6 + Q7 were the Motorola transistors that I could not find a cross for. We now know the cross is MJE 182 ($0.69)</SPAN>. I believe these 3 components are replaced for dead or intermittent ( temperature related) on/off displays. My original dead unit also had CR1 shorted. CR1 was not replaced in the replacement unit.

<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

Brian

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Brian,

Thanks for the detective work. Should prove to be very useful.

[padgett]

Two observations I have not seen mentioned:

1) the ALDL serial link goes through the IPC. If the IPC is bad and the ALDL cover is also missing, both sides of the loop are open and multiple elements will be affected.

2) See the diagnostics in the 90 FSM that begin on 8D-26, particularly charts A & B and the diagram on 8D-30 (cover makes the ALDL L to M connection.

3) Have seen a low battery cause a confused computer

4) If persistant, I would connect one of my OTC 2000 scanners to the ALDL line and see if the data stream was present. (could also jumper A-B and watch the SES light for flashing). If there, the IPC is supect.

[KDirk]

Brian-

Great that you did some snooping on the repaired cluster and came up with this info. Reading back over this thread, I think CR1 is just an ordinary rectifier diode, although we cannot determine it's exact characteristics without cross-ref'ing it to a known part number.

Not sure when I will have time to do anything further with this myself (have had to pick up a lot of additional work on my own time to cover for lack of hours in my "full time" job) so right now the priority is keeping my bills paid, not playing around at the test bench. Probably will be the dead of winter before I have any substantial free time again to revisit the IPC repair issue.

Anyway, hoping that this will finally get to a point where we can salvage bad clusters instead of junking so many. I assume most owners who have picked up used replacement IPC's in favor of a [more expensive] repair have pitched the failed ones? If anyone has bad clusters they are sitting on, please hang onto them as we may be able to save many of these with less expensive repairs than have previously been available. Remember, there are only so many of these around.

KDirk

[Guest Jeffs Nuts]

Thanks everybody for the informative thread! I just started at an independant shop after working at a Chrysler dealer for my whole life, so I depend on the internet now for a lot of info on cars I have no experience on. I am currently being bent over by a 1991 Riviera which has broken my virginity on the VATS system (car was towed in with a replacement key with no "chip"). After fixing that mess the customer was curious how much it would cost to get his dash to light up again.....which brought me here.

If I can sell this guy a replacement cluster, I'd like to send the original cluster out to you as thanks for posting this info online and helping me out. I'm not sure how to get that info without creating a nonstop flow of "help me" and "gimmie gimmies", but we'll figure that out later.

It was a blank dash that became 00 error after beating on the dash.

Thanks again,

Jeff

[KDirk]

Jeff,

Glad you found this info helpful. There are many helpful and knowledgeable members on this forum; more so than any other car forum I've been on. As to your current problem, you may just want to have the existing cluster serviced. There are several independent speedo shops (look online, Mr. Wizard service is one with a very informative website) that do this for around $200 (or a bit less) and warranty their repairs. I would assume factory authorized AC/Delco service centers are still around that do these repairs as well. Check with a Buick dealer on this, the can usually arrange repairs with an authorized shop if you choose to go that route.

I would hesitate to put a pull (used) cluster in, as even if it works now, it may not in a few weeks or months (no way to tell in advance of course) and then your customer is back wanting it fixed again at no cost, depending on how long your shop warranties it's repairs for.

Since most speedo repair shops require a core, you will be hard pressed to find a rebuild cluster w/warranty that you can buy outright. Thus, you'll need to send the bad one back in in most cases.

If by chance you do end up keeping the bad cluster, drop me a PM here, I may be interested in getting it to attempt repairs on.

KDirk

[Guest Jeffs Nuts]

no luck on selling a cluster....a local salvage yard had one for $200 but after getting this thing running we discovered a broken radiator and a few other issues he wants to save money for first.

again let me say thanks to everyone in this helpful thread....99 out of 100 hits on these searches i've been doing just lead me to a bunch of clowns....i'm lucky to have found this one.

[Guest AIRMASTER]

JUST PICKED UP A RUST FREE, RUNNING 89 RED REATTA ...REAL CHEAP [$500]...MAYBE NOT SO CHEAP AFTER ALL.. THE GAUGE CLUSTER IS OUT,THE CRT TOOCH SCREEN IS OUT,,THE HEADLIGHT DOORS DON'T OPEN. THE HEATER FAN DOESN'T WORK,ONLY LOW SPEED ON THE WIPER MOTOR WORKS,FOUND THE CONTROLLER FOR THE HEADLIGHT DOORS..RELAY AND BOARD NO GOOD...DON'T CARE ABOUT THE CRT.TOUCH SCREEN...USELESS.CASETTE PLAYER USELESS..I CAN FIGURE OUT THE OTHER STUFF...BUT HOW DO I GET THE SPEEDO,GAS GAUGE ETC TO FUNCTION? CAN IT BE REPLACED WITH ANOTHER CLUSTER FROM SOMETHING ELSE? ALL OF THE HIGH/LOW TECH STUFF FROM '80S WAS GREAT THEN, NOW IT IS JUST OUTDATED.WHO STILL PLAYS CASETTES?

ANY IDEAS WOULD BE APPRECIATED,

JERRY/AIRMASTER NH

[Machiner 55]

.DON'T CARE ABOUT THE CRT.TOUCH SCREEN...USELESS.

I think that at some point in the future you will change your mind about the CRT.

John F.

[Guest AIRMASTER]

SORRY BUT EVERYTHING I'VE READ SO FAR ABOUT THAT ANTIQUE THING [CRT] MAKES ME CERTAIN THAT IT IS A "BOAT ANCHOR". IF I CAN'T GET THIS SYSTEM WORKING CORRECTLY WITHOUT TAKING OUT A SECOND MORTGAGE ON MY HOUSE ..THE CAR IS GOING TO THE SCRAP YARD. I LIKE THE CARS STYLING..BUT CAN'T SPEND MY TIME FIXING THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I THOUGHT OLD JAGS

WERE ELECTRICAL NIGHTMARES...BUT THIS THING IS FAR WORST...AND NOT A CLASSIC JAG ,THAT'S WORTH FIXING. WANNA BUY A CAR ....CHEAP?

BUT THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND INPUT.

[DAVES89]

If there is a local U-Pick yard near you, you can pick up almost everything for less then $100.00 Instrument cluster and CRT for $60.00 or less for both. Blower control module for $20.00 or less, same for the wiper switch. If you can't find a Reatta a Riviera of the same vintage will work.

Bigger question to me is do you have any brake lights on? [The warning lights on the cluster]

[bTW post 4000, never thought I would get there...]

[Guest AIRMASTER]

I DON'T KNOW WHAT" POST 4000 MEANS". BUT I TAKE IT THAT MEANS IT TOOK A LONG TIME TO GET THERE SORRY. I WILL CHECK WITH LOCAL SALVAGE YARDS...BUT PRICES ON EBAY ARE IN THE HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS FOR USED STUFF. I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT BCM'S AND POWER SUPPLY MODULES BEING A PROBLEM. THEIR ARE NO LIGHT ON THE CLUSTER FOR ANY LIGHT FUNCTIONS

GAS,GAUGE,INDICATORS ETC.

SOME WHERES IN THE RESEARCH I'VE DONE THERE IS A MENTION OF A "INSTRUMENT CLUSTER RELAY" NOT SURE WHAT THIS IS BUT IF IT SUPPLIES POWER TO THE CLUSTER WHEN ENERGIZED

THEN IT DESERVES A LOOK SEE. TOMORROW.

THANKS AGAIN

[DAVES89]

If it was my car I would start with a working CRT and Instrument Cluster, as well as a different Blower Control Module, and Wiper Switch. The Headlight Controller is pretty robust but the headlight arms may need rebuilding. What I have listed is the usual failure items.

However before you start on any of the aforementioned items I need to ask you HOW ARE THE BRAKES? That is where the potential for real money to be spent. If the brakes are real "hard" I would advise not driving the car until you get that issue resolved. It could be as easy to repair as a relay, or a more expensive low pressure switch, accumulator, or if the car was ignored too long a pump and motor.

You bought a running car for $500.00. You sound like you have some mechanical ability, be prepared to spend at least $300.00-$500.00 to get it back in shape mechanically. If you have a well equiped U-Pick yard that has a Reatta or Riviera you can do it for half of the money I quoted.

A good web site to go to for easy to read tutorials that will address most of your issues is reattaowner.com

Good luck

[Guest AIRMASTER]

I AM AN EX MECHANIC....THE BRAKES ARE FINE..THE CAR RUNS AND SHIFT FINE....THEIR IS NO VIDEO DISPLAY FROM THE CRT,,, BUT IF I TOUCH THE SCREEN [bLINDLY] I CAN GET THE RADIO TO PLAY

AND CHANGE STATIONS ETC...CAN'T TELL WHAT I'M TOUCHING...BUT SOUND COMES OUT.

I HAVE CALLED EVERY AUTO SALVAGE YARD IN A 75 MILE RADIUS AND NO ONE HAS PARTS FOR THIS CAR.WITHOUT A WORKING CRT AND GAUGE CLUSTER THE CAR IS USELESS.

THE BCM SEEMS TO PLAY AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN ALL OF THIS STUFF...DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS A PROBLEM! ALSO I AM STILL TRYING TO FIND THE "GAUGE CLUSTER RELAY" THAT IS MENTIONED.

DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS A "SUPPLY RELAY" TO THE CLUSTER OR IF IS ACTIVATED TO SOMETHING ELSE BY THE CLUSTER.WITHOUT A DIAGRAM OF THE "PIN CONNECTIONS" ON BOTH SIDES OF THE CLUSTER AS TO WHAT GOES WHERE I'M LOST TO FIND A PROBLEM AND RELUCTANT TO PLUG A REPLACEMENT CLUSTER INTO THE HARNESS.

[Machiner 55]

AirMaster,

Where are you located? Maybe there is a Reatta owner close to you that can help you out.

Re. plugging a "replacement cluster" into the wiring harness. Whether it be the IPC or the CRT unit, the usual failure mode is the unit itself.

There should be no problem plugging in a working unit.

John F.

[DAVES89]

I think you are looking to replace the "Central Power Supply" and the CCRT which is the controller for the CRT. In all my years on the forum and the parts I have sold, with one exception did I sell one CCRT and never a CPS. I think you are going too far. If your car was mine I would start with a CRT and a Instrument Cluster. I believe the reason why you got the car so cheap is because the previous owner went on Ebay, saw the prices for these two parts and gave up, selling you the car.

If you are in Wisconsin I will meet up with parts and we can try them. Otherwise I will sell them to you. Email/PM me if interested.

[Guest AIRMASTER]

thanks..the car is 89 not a 90, i live in NH just across the border from Mass, i found a cluster for $80 ...but the CRT's are still over $200. i ordered the cluster..but holding off on the CRT.after all money is tight. i have tried every salvage yard in a 75 mile radius and no luck. the ipc seems to be ok..without it plugged in their is no power to anything.Without a wiring diag to everything i have to "ring out every circuit.

[Guest AIRMASTER]

First of all if i was in Wisconsin i would be cold [ it is 62 deg here] but if i was their the car would be working great because some one ,like you, would be their to help.

I did find a cluster for the 89 Reatta ,not the 90 that's listed, for $80 ,that's as cheap as i had found, and ordered it . But the crt's are still way too expensive right now.

How much is the one you have? I have already spent another $500 on this car,muffler,headlight motors,left frt axle,lft front ball joint not including the cluster.

even though the car is in great condition body wise,does need a new clear coat and some minor rust repair and interior trim pieces,better tires and rims [Pontiac rims on it now].

The cassett deck is outdated,do know if their is a way to install a cd player or in dash system?

[Booreatta]

sounds like there is some frustration here. Most of the problems you have mentioned are pretty simple fixes. You have to remember you paid $500.00 for the car and it is 25 years old. The advise you have gotten here that you will spend another several hundred dollars are correct. Once you get past the OMG what have I gotten into, you will have a nice running car. You cant find a better built car that is 25 years that looks as good and you can get a lot of use out of. Good luck you have lots of help here, Dave is a good supply of Parts and knowledge, Kevin is really smart on these cars, Ronnie will always have an answer that you need, Jim Finn will have the parts if you cant find it any where else at a good price. Start with the CRT and keep going. You will be successful. You cant buy the advise you get here for free. Keep going you will be successful and you will have a great little car. Good luck

[DAVES89]

We will hit 60 degrees here to day, however they are saying we may get up to 2" of snow on Monday. Hopefully it will be rain, that is easier to take. I have a plug that bypasses the cassette deck and has an end you can use an MP-3 player on. It is the way to go. Let me know if you are interested. My cassette deck works , but I never use it either. I had the deck rebuilt when I wanted everything to work, but now it's like "What's the point?"

At any rate email me at;

lemke1044@aol.com I can't do sales on this part of the forum as we have a Buy/Sell in the Reatta page.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Without a wiring diag to everything i have to "ring out every circuit.

Go here and register to get online access to the 89 FSM. Has everything you are wanting and more:

http://reatta.net/docs.html

If swapping in the IPC does the trick, then you are probably also going to need the CRT. If the new IPC does nothing, then you probably need an BCM or Central Power Supply.

While you're waiting, I'd clean the ground and hot posts under the hood and check the battery cables are good and tight. The modules in the Reatta need at least a solid 11 volts or the won't work right.

http://reattaowner.com/roj/component/content/article/62-electrical-system/other-electrical/224-ground-terminals-junction-box-location

These may come in handy too:

http://reattaowner.com/roj/repair-information/repair-tutorials-a-information/category/61-digital-dash-panel-a-crt

[Guest AIRMASTER]

No frustration.....i have worked on old Jags with worst wiring than this....i am just amazed that this car cannot due anything without that crt info center....radio won;t work without it,HVA/C won't

work without it etc. Old 60's and 70 corvettes had complicated vac/elec headlight doors ..but operating these is really old school and worst.

but all that said thanks for the really good info.

[DAVES89]

As long as Airmaster has revived this post, what pins on the Instrument cluster can one "jump" to make both the '88/89 and 90/91 light up? That would help me out in the yard with those cars w/o keys...

[Guest AIRMASTER]

YEA...THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION...I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THAT AS WELL.

[harry yarnell]

Why is this post still called 1990 instrument cluster?

[Guest AIRMASTER]

I DON'T KNOW...IT'S A 1989 REATTA......DON'T KNOW IF IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE? .......BUT THE CLUSTER DOES NOT WORK! LIKE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS.....LOTS OF LOOSE,CORRODED AND BAD CONNECTIONS EVERY WHERES. >>>>>IT'S A BAG OF WORMS. IF IT DIDN'T WORK ...SOMEBODY WIRED AROUND IT!!!TOGGLE SWITCH WIRED TO THE INSIDE BLOWER MOTOR?????

[ol' yeller]

Airmaster, I can tell you're frustrated and I know you are new but everyone here is trying to help. I have a few suggestions that may help ease your frustration. First start a new post rather than piggybacking on a posting that doesn't describe your problem (89 vs 90 cluster, they are different). Second, try to keep one topic (problem) per posting. Start a new thread for each problem. It will keep confusion to a minimum. Put your car year and type (coupe, vert) in your signature so it is clear what we are working on. Putting your general location in your signature may help us get some local help to you rather than recommending a wrecking yard that is miles from you. Get a Factory Service Manual and your life will be much easier. A previous poster gave you instruction on how to get one free online. Lastly using all caps is considered shouting on the Internet and it is harder to read so unlock your caps key. Take a deep breath as you bought a $500 25 year old car that was state of the art 25 years ago.

[DAVES89]

Hey relax.

We can tell you are frustrated, but you don't have to use caps. We are here to help.

While the Reatta was made for 4 years, it is really 3 cars. The 88/89 is pretty much identical. The 90 is pretty much the same as the 88/89 but has a different dash. The 91 has the same dash as the 90 but does not have the same braking system as the 88-90.

Typically when someone comes on to the forum they usually start a new post, but you didn't. We still want to help.

You have what we all suspected, a cobbled together car, that someone before you fixed with what they had. If you look back you will see that we talked about a blower control module. This item "reads" the temperature and tells the fan to turn on and at what speed. When the go out they don't turn off even when the car is turned off. That is why you have a toggle switch.

This is also why we think that your cluster and CRT are bad. The previous owner couldn't fix it by jumping a lead or installing a toggle switch. It just burned out. The cluster is pretty robust but is still 25 years old. The CRT not so much. They are more likely to be bad.

Now back to the "rules".

Start a new post. One post for each problem. We will be more then happy to help you on a multiple of issues, but please stay with one issue per post. This cuts down on confusion for you and certainly for us as most of us are well into our 50's and get confused easily.

So here is what we know so far;

Your headlight arms are bad. You ordered knew ones.

Your blower control module is bad. I have some otherwise a quick trip to a You Pick yard and you will have one. A Cadillac, Riviera, Reatta of the same vintage will work. U-Pick yard sells them for about $10.00 or so,

You need a CRT

You need a Instrument Cluster

You need to clean the cables at the battery as well as the little Red and Black boxes behind the battery.

You told us you have a good running/ driving car and that the brakes work well.

You need to flush your brake fluid. Old fluid does not go well with that Teves unit under your hood.

This will take care of about 75% of what you are dealing with.

Report back with anything else.

Good luck.

[Guest AIRMASTER]

sorry about the caps thing...i just thought it was easier to read...not yelling at anybody. i appreciate all the help and advice....also i'm new to this so not sure how to start a new thread.

my brain is fried from looking at all the issues with this car

jerry from ,nashua nh

[DAVES89]

No problem. Go to the top of the Reatta page and look for the little blue box that says "Post new topic" and click on that and get started.

[wws944]

The "search forum" box is useful too. Everything described has been discussed before and is well covered in the archives.

[Machiner 55]

Jerry,

There is another site available to you showing "fixits" for everything Reatta.

Just click on the following blue words to get there. The Reatta Owners Journal.

It is very informative and chock full of information and tutorials to help you get'r going and keeping it running.

In addition to the Journal there's even a store for your convenience. It's called The Reatta Store.

John F.

[Barney Eaton]

"LOTS OF LOOSE,CORRODED AND BAD CONNECTIONS EVERY WHERES. >>>>>"

This may be a clue any chance this is a FLOOD car?

There is Eddie Voland in Westminster MD that repairs CRT's his base charge is $100 plus shipping if you do not find a working one. (phone 443-536-9591)

Someone mentioned the Central Power Supply....the instrument cluster and CRT need 5volts and the Central Power Supply is the source.

Airmaster, there are the 88-89 Reattas, they share parts with 86-89 Riviers, the 90-91 Reatta does not have the CRT and used a different Instrument Cluster which is shared with the 90-93 Riviers.

[Guest AIRMASTER]

thanks for the info...i think the car was sitting for a long time outdoors and got damp....their is no indication of a "flood car" ...but who knows.

thanks anyway.

jerry