Anatomy of a scam...

[stealthbob]

I found the greatest deal ever!

A fully restored 1954 Buick Roadmaster Convertible, Model 76C for only $12,700 :eek:

Yea, yea....it was a typo and the seller missed a zero. A little over priced at $127,000 but surely not correct at $12,700.

The add:

1954 Buick Roadmaster

The email chain:

I'm guessing your not intending on selling for only $12,700, what is the asking price?

I'm sorry for my late reply, i found a new job and i had to move. You were interested in my 54 Buick. Where have you seen it? It was posted on more websites.. The car is in very good condition and it looks great, it's a matching numbers vehicle. The title is clear and the car was fully restored 1 year ago. My asking price is $12700 - the buyer gets insured DAS shipping and a 30 days free of charge return policy and inspection period. For safety reasons i only deal through ebay, i still have the car listed there. let me know if it's okay.

I am interested...do you have more pictures?

I would like to see the engine bay, front floor pans, trunk ect.

I have someone near by who may be able to look at the car for me....could this be set up?

This is where I wanted to see how I couldn't see the car and he of course had is answer:

Here are more pics. I lost my old job and I had to move to Kansas because i found something else here, i made arrangements with DAS Auto Shippers for the transaction i had with a buyer but his loan was not approved and the money that I paid to DAS are not refundable. I also have a contract with them and I can only use their shipping services. The car is at the shipping company in Wichita KS ready to be shipped. Since I'm away with business right now a local inspection cannot be performed. However, I do offer a 30 days inspection period prior to buying the car if we close the deal through ebay. Let me explain how the whole process works:

1. you send the amount due to ebay's Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP) service

2. ebay will confirm me that you have made the payment and that everything is ok.

3. i will ship the car so you can inspect, test and make a decision if you will keep it or not. You have 30 days from arrival date to do that.

4. if you will not get exactly the same car that you have viewed in the ad, and as described by me and also a clear title you will receive all your money back from ebay motors. Their VPP protection is for amounts up to $50,000.

5. if everything is ok you will have to send ebay your approval to release the funds to me.

If you agree with this process please send your full name and shipping address so i can make the shipping arrangements and start the procedure through ebay.

I'm waiting for your email asap because I have other potential buyers and I don't know what to say to them.

I'm interested but how do I send money to ebay and am I protected fully? Can you explain the VPP more?

I hate to send money like this...the car looks great but I have never done this before.

You will probably have more than 1 payment option, that will be between you and them after i start the transaction. I explained exactly how the whole thing works, i start the case, they contact you, you pay them, they notify me that they received the payment and ask me to ship, i ship and provide you the tracking number, you receive the Buick and you let them know that everything is ok so they can release the funds to me. After that there's a 30 days period in which if you decide to return the car you will be able to do that if there's something wrong with it or if it's not as described and they refund you automatically within 3 business days. How they recover their money from me after that won't be your concern... that's about all.

Can I call you?

I would like to talk more about the car first before I send you all that money.

Please give me a number and I will call you tonight to finalize all this...its a great car and I don't want to lose it!

This is where is gets bizarre....I guess he forgot that he was out on buisness and now at home recuperating

You are not sending me ANY money until you get the vehicle, i explained that 2 times already. I was burned on the Internet both as a buyer and as a seller that's why i'm using all these protection services. I would have called you already to speed things up but I have a talking disability because I’ve had a tracheotomy surgery just 2 weeks ago and I’m not completely recovered. I hope this won't be matter and we will be able to complete this deal. It’s very hard for me right now because I can't fully express myself to people around me but I hope the situation will come to normal very soon. Until then I hope that you will understand me and not pass on this because I have this temporary disability.

I have sent this chain to the authorities and notified Craigslist....

I would normally say just be warned but this was so so obvious it was silly. I was told by the Fraud investigator that unfortunately these types of scams are ubiquitous and cover all aspects of selling right down to your small local paper classifieds. :mad:

[JohnD1956]

How convenient, a portable tracheotomy?

[Booreatta]

I live in Wichita so if you can find out what shipper has the car I would go find it. I deal a lot with car people in Wichita so it should not be too hard to find the car if it is here

Do you know who the shipping company is?

Let me know

Chuck

[Thriller]

Chuck,

You were told 6 times already it is DAS Dependable Auto Shippers and...blah blah blah....

Sorry, I'm back now...I had my other temporarily disabled personality on the go.

Frankly, anyone wanting that kind of money for a car should be a bit friendlier and easier to deal with...why would you put that car up on multiple web sites if you were only going to deal through one?

Bob - did you ever get an engine shot? There's a red Roadmaster convertible in the Twin Cities area, but it had a unique intake / air cleaner. I have photos on the old computer...don't recall if it had this colour of top though.

[stealthbob]

I live in Wichita so if you can find out what shipper has the car I would go find it. I deal a lot with car people in Wichita so it should not be too hard to find the car if it is here

Do you know who the shipping company is?

Let me know

Chuck

Don't bother...plain scam.

The reason he says Kansas is that his trace route for his email IP ends in Kansas. The reason for that is that if you look at the map of the continental US the trace shows exactly smack dab in the middle. In other words he is covering his tracks as it pertains to his IP info. I can still track it further but he is using proxies and would be fruitless to attempt.

I just wanted to have some fun...see where it went and what techniques were used to get the hook on the victim. This is actually disappointing in its rudimentary approach and lame excuses. I just wanted to post this to show the way these guys work..I doubt he is even from North America as his grammar would indicate English as a second language.

Edited April 22, 2010 by stealthbob (see edit history)

[stealthbob]

Chuck,

You were told 6 times already it is DAS Dependable Auto Shippers and...blah blah blah....

Sorry, I'm back now...I had my other temporarily disabled personality on the go.

Frankly, anyone wanting that kind of money for a car should be a bit friendlier and easier to deal with...why would you put that car up on multiple web sites if you were only going to deal through one?

Bob - did you ever get an engine shot? There's a red Roadmaster convertible in the Twin Cities area, but it had a unique intake / air cleaner. I have photos on the old computer...don't recall if it had this colour of top though.

It has the standard air cleaner...it also has the marks of a bad paint job as there are under spray areas. Call it a signature if you will.

Notice the fact that he wants to use the VPP from ebay....?

Its the Vehicle Protection Plan...works like an Escrow setup but the protections are only valid if you use ebay to complete the purchase...it expressly excludes the private sale through emails.

Thats where he gets you....you may think its safe but its certainly not!

[46Chris]

Love how impatient the seller was about your basic questions: "I told you two times already..."

What always sticks out for me with scammers is 'setting up the con'. Rather than describe the car, they detail their personal story and a special 'Uncle Wiggly' buying process - I lost my job, my wife broke my arm, the seller backed out, the car is in transit, many things have happened. Now here are the 10 steps involved in buying this car, all of which are designed to put me at complete risk: You pay me hardly any money, I ship the car, you have a year to drive it, then you let me know if you want to pay me the rest.

[Booreatta]

Chuck,

You were told 6 times already it is DAS Dependable Auto Shippers and...blah blah blah....

Sorry, I'm back now...I had my other temporarily disabled personality on the go.

Frankly, anyone wanting that kind of money for a car should be a bit friendlier and easier to deal with...why would you put that car up on multiple web sites if you were only going to deal through one?

Bob - did you ever get an engine shot? There's a red Roadmaster convertible in the Twin Cities area, but it had a unique intake / air cleaner. I have photos on the old computer...don't recall if it had this colour of top though.

Darn I work about 6 blocks from DAS in Wichita just for grins I will run over there and see if they have any information on this car. They might have an interest in what and how they are being used

Chuck

[stealthbob]

The car is worth 6 figures and he is selling for 12k????

There will be no trace whatsoever of this great car at that shop.

From what I'm told this is not this guys first attempt to sell this very same car from a couple of stolen pictures.

Funny story though...I ended up talking for about 15 mins with the investigator about restorations. She and her husband were just about done their 79 Corvette.

Edited April 22, 2010 by stealthbob (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

Here's the same car, same song.....

http://forums.aaca.org/f117/1954-roadmaster-convertible-ebay-262869.html

[MrEarl]

A little bit different car, same song...

http://forums.aaca.org/f117/55-roadmaster-legit-not-226055.html

Bob, If you find where this *^&(&^$@#&* lives, let me know, I'd like to go with you to help break both his legs

Edited April 22, 2010 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

now here's a fun read. before my time, but not before old-tank and B S.

http://forums.aaca.org/f115/54-buick-roadmaster-should-i-get-135203.html

[59 98]

Now why does this useless JA have to use Wichita, Kansas as his center of operations? I hate it when idiots like this and the Westboro pile of fails give Kansas a black eye.

I'm always wary of anyone that uses 'transaction' in dealings. Of the 1000 Nigerian 419 scam emails I have received 100% of them use the word 'transaction'.

Matt

Wichita

[stealthbob]

Just to be clear the reason Wichita always come up on these is that when you "Back Track" info from people who are hiding their info the location comes up as United States only and location Unknown. The automated search places the location as most central to the USA which happens to be Wichita Kansas. Knowing this and the fact that people now tend to try and search peoples whereabouts they tell you in advance that they are in Wichita. Sneaky eh...

I have some computer skills and might be able to mess this guy up but the authorities are now involved so I will lay off.

I asked for the link to pay and I guess he got confused and just posted more pictures...the exact same ones he posted earlier.

To be continued.....

[stealthbob]

Ok this mental midget took it to a whole new level of idiocy...

This is the way we left it last night:

Yes that's what i was talking about i received the info and i will make the final arrangements and start the ebay case tomorrow first thing in the morning.

My response earlier this night:

So is there a link to make payment?

There's a link to the vpp program that says " purchase protection for up to $50,000" almost on every item listed on ebay motors. To start the vpp case i need your full name and shipping address, as soon as i receive the info i will make the final arrangements and after that they will contact you and send you all the important info.

Heheheh...he forgot who he was scamming this time! I already sent him my bogus info just last night.

I had enough at this point and finalized it with my response:

Dude...I already sent you that info last night!

Yeash...enough of this.

Look...you have to be the dumbest scammer I have ever encountered...freaking unbelievable!

First you try to sell a car, a very rare car that is worth 10 times what you are trying to sell it for. I even went so far as to tell you that in my first responce and I quote "I'm guessing your not intending on selling for only $12,700, what is the asking price?" ...but noooo you had to go all greedy and try again wit the same low price of 12k. You then tell me you lost a job and had to move and thats why the car was not available for an inspection. You then tell me that you are recuperating from a tracheotomy procedure and can't talk. All the while you giving me attitude for asking questions. Then you take it to the next level of idiocy by repeating what you had said and reposting pictures as if I was someone else you were trying to scam...you even ask me for the second time my personal information after I had already provided it (not actually my info but you get the drift).

I suggest you try a new line of work as I feel this type of endeavour is above your mental pay grade...I have heard of some real deficient Intellectual peasants in my short life but you sir are a whole new sub class I was not aware of.

You should know this scam has been posted many times on many sites as a warning....I gave the full email chain to my local Fraud authorities and they will be following up on it.

Thank you for a good time and have a great day...hope you are satisfied with your meagre existence and one day maybe on your death bed look back and come to grips with the fact that you are a morally bankrupt individual and that you will be all alone on your last day of life.

The thing is he is soo greedy and stupid he may still try to get me to bite.

[Thriller]

I love the pay grade line...beautiful.

[Guest Dan Cook]

I got caught up in one of these scams about a year and half ago. My fault, I should have asked somebody to look at it for me but here's what happened.

This car was on Ebay being sold by a classic car dealership in a Houston 'burb. I know some of you guys who live around there may already know about this. Well, I looked at their website, surfed all through it. I talked to the owner on the phone plus a few of the staff (and I got the shaft) and bought the car through Ebay.

The photos and discription made it look and sound like a pristine automobile. They even had a MySpace page at the time and all the cars in the show room were top of the line. Anyway when I finally got the car it was a mess. Full of rust and needed major work.

Without boring anybody further, I sued the owner and the corporation in the California Supreme Court and won a judgement for nearly $17,000. I now have an attorney in Texas who is trying to collect my money. IF I manage to collect all of it I will at least break about even in the whole thing. The file I accumulated is huge.

While all this was going on and doing my own investigation I found out the owner and his son were both arrested by the FBI, The Montgomery County Sheriff, and several agencies in a raid on the dealership, this was in Aug 2008. They are still in jail and this hasn't gone to court yet in Texas.

It turns out they scammed several hundred other people in the US, Europe, So. America and other countries for over $530.000. I guess it depends how far up the food chain I am if I get any money back. The lawyers say I have a good chance since I already have a court ordered judgement. Texas and California work together on interstate judgements, so I've been told.

It just goes to show how easy this can be done and look like an honest company. If anyone wants to who this is PM me and I will send copies of a couple of news paper articles and other info.

Dan

[Guest 53Nailhead]

Well done Bob

This will be a good one for Tuesday Nite Story Time...........

[stealthbob]

This May 4th right?

[Guest 53Nailhead]

You Got It !!!

There's a Don Cherry's Rest. & the Fire Dept. out selling dogs & drinks for CHEO...Bring the family

Lets hope the weather's good.

[Reatta Man]

Once again, we see the obvious differences between the typical scam and a real car (Buick) enthusiast.

We have all heard the stories in this and other car forums about how one collector bends over backwards to be accomodating to another BCA member or car collector. That's because the vast majority of the people in here are just looking for a fair deal; not an opportunity to take someone to the cleaners.

But it seems the scam artist is always 'in a hurry....' Of course, they always have a reason....job loss, IRS problems, foreclosure...something to make the buyer think they have the seller over a barrel.

Of course, that is one of the marks of a con; they want to convince you that you are getting an incredible deal, tricking you into thinking that if you don't move quickly, you will 'loose out.' In other words, they play on your greed in order to make their greed work.

And so, when they deal with car enthusiasts like us who are not just looking to be greedy, we can see through their lies.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Reatta Man (see edit history)

[HurstGN]

Time is of the essence. Our local chapter got an e-mail last night (5/3) that said we were paid $115 by some name I can't remember on Mai 5, 2010.

OK, you can't spell, and I'm getting paid 2 days before payment was made....now that's FAST! :eek: