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85/84/83 possibly 82 Idle Load Compensator


sosuzguy

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I've been looking around for a couple of years for the Idle Load Compensators Part no. 17111104 for one of my Riv's. (well that's the part number GM comes up with, NONE of the aftermarket stores can even find this number) This is the part that when your engine has low vacuum or looses vacuum quickly (coasting) idles up your carb and keeps your engine from dying. Great example is backing up with the AC on and turning the wheels. Mine is shot, the pintle does nothing but flop around. I know in a 1981 Riv I saw with the 307 GM used an electronic version, while 83/84/85 used a vacuum model. I also believe the Riv's that came with the 4.1 V6 used this same electronic model. I wonder why all of the auto part stores only sell the 1981 & V6 electronic version of this? Seems to me that most of us with these have the V8 307. I'm curious how these aftermarket part companies come up with the wrong part to reman and then try to say it works on all these applications. Anyone in the auto parts business who might can speculate? Autozones website calls this part either an Idle Air Control valve or Idle Stop solenid and the pictures shown are the same.

Idle Load Compensator Part No 17111104.pdf

post-48336-143138203375_thumb.jpg

Edited by sosuzguy (see edit history)
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Bob thank you for checking for me. Most carb rebuilders didn't even seem to know what this was when I asked about it. Seems like maybe it's more of a driveability part GM developed to add onto the Q-jet instead of something that's standard. I forsee this being like the ELC compressors in the future. None of us have a good working on and the story will be, no one ever asked for any so no one remanufactured them. These have a diaphram inside them and they will not last forever!

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All I would be able to get are used ones.

I would not know how to test them.

I would find and ship 2 each w/freight for $50.00. PM me if interested.

Pricing breaks down as follows;

$15.00 for the parts

$30.00 for my time

$5.00 for freight

I would send two as one would/should work...

I would send the item shown in the picture...

Edited by DAVES89 (see edit history)
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Guest pfloro

Regardless of the GM division, I believe that any Oldsmobile 307 V8 with CCC will have an ILC. I understand that cars built for export to Canada through about 1986 didn't require CCC & don't have an ILC. I believe those engines used an Idle Stop Solenoid which was energized whenever the ignition was on. This prevented run-on (dieseling) by allowing the throttle to completely close when the ignition was turned off.

I have owned & extensively worked on my '84 Toronado with the CCC controlled 307 V8 for 26 years. IMHO, the ILC (while it functioned) never modulated the throttle angle to compensate for engine load. It is strictly an emission control device. Using the TPS signal, the ECM extends the plunger (by cutting off vacuum), whenever the throttle is opened. The purpose of the ILC is to prevent the throttle from immediately returning to curb idle when the accelerator is released. CCC instructs the ILC to slowly retract (via vacuum & the two related inline valves). This prevents a rich condition whenever the throttle closes. It seems to function like a dashpot which were used on some standard shift equipped cars.

The ILC & it's related plumbing has not been on my 307 V8 for 20 years. The curb idle has been set using the 'curb idle adjusting screw' which is on the left (driver) side of the QJet. This is how curb idle was set on the Qjet prior to CCC. High idle (cold start & warm up) was always set via a screw on the right side of the Qjet under the choke coil housing. I have always passed the annual emissions test without the ILC.

I have never had any stalling problems with the engine under load since the ILC was removed. This includes idling in gear with A/C on while steering to park. Stalling under these conditions has another cause.

FYI: The DualJet (2 bbl) carbs used on the 231 V6 engine with CCC employed an electric servo motor on the carb to perform the same function as the ILC. The ECM commanded the servo motor to either extend or retract the plunger. I believe this device was known as ISC (Idle Speed Control)... For some reason, GM took a different approach with these two classes of early '80s CCC engines...

Paul

Edited by pfloro (see edit history)
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Paul,

Very informative, thank you. You mentioned that you know of a way to tell if the timing chain is stretched / nylon gears missing on the 5.0 liter (307) Oldmobile. Could you share that tip with us? I also looked at solid steel timing sets for this motor. The S.A. set I found has two other keyway slots other than straight up. One is 4* advanced, the other is 2* retarded. What would either of these other keyways offer?

Thanks,

Ed

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Jayson,

They could increase the pulse width on the M/C solenoid and slightly richen the mixture.

Ed,

Pull the distributor cap, put a ratchet and socket on the crankshaft bolt. If the timing chain is tight, the rotor should turn as soon as the crankshaft turns. If it is worn, there will be a delay before the rotor moves. You could also pull the fuel pump and reach in and wiggle the timing chain with a finger.

If the car has 100 K plus on the odometer, might be good time to replace the fuel pump, water pump and timing chain and gears. Or just wait for them to fail! That usually happens at the worst time!

Tim

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Tim,

Thanks. Your mind is covering what I'm fearing. It's a little over 1,000 miles from my place to Harrisburg. My fears would be that on Sunday I'd be about 300 miles out, and everything you mentioned would go out too.

With 129,000 on the clock, and no maintenance records from the previous owner, I think the items you mentioned would be a good idea.

Ed

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Guest pfloro

Ed: The multiple keyway slots on the replacement timing set crank sprocket allow you to 'degree the cam'. The advanced & retarded keyway slots provide a means to alter the OEM relationship between the crank & cam. Unless one is building a high performance engine for racing, the '0' degree keyway is the one to use. I understand that advancing the cam (valves open earlier) provides more 'lower rpm power' & retarding the cam (valves open later) provides more 'top rpm power'. FYI: Some (perhaps most) modern engines allow the computer to vary the valve timing based upon power requirements. This provides the best combination of performance & economy from smaller displacement engines.

Jayson: For many years after I removed the ILC & related plumbing, I used nothing to raise the idle when the A/C compressor engaged. To compensate for the increased load, I simply raised the curb idle speed a bit during the summer months. Several years ago, I added an Idle Stop Solenoid which has the exact same mounting bracket as the ILC. It is connected to the A/C compressor clutch feed wire (at the compressor). When the compressor clutch is energized, so is the solenoid. It's possible to finely adjust the 'A/C on' idle speed to match the 'A/C off' idle speed. Unfortunately, I don't have the Standard part # of this solenoid. I would try to find the Standard Motor Products solenoid. The attached picture shows mounting of the solenoid. It works really well & I'm glad to have it...

I agree with Tim regarding the replacement of the timing set on the 307 V8. My cam gear was pretty scary looking after about 150,000 miles. I wasn't too many miles away from the chain jumping a tooth or two! My mechanic told me that it lasted as long as it did because I changed the oil & filter at regular intervals. My interval is 3 month or 3000 miles / non-synthetic 10W-40 grade. And YES..., since everything is off & exposed, new water & fuel pumps make a lot of sense. Of course, I'm still wondering where all that nylon now lives. I guess it's found a new home at the bottom of the oil pan!

Paul

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  • 8 years later...

I have a problem when I put freon in my 1984 Riviera, it had the 307 Olds engine. The car was converted over to 134 before I bought it.   With my car warmed up & running smooth, when I put the freon in, the car dies.  We tried it again, with a person behind the wheel & revving up the motor the air will blow cold.  As soon as the accelerator is released, the car dies.  Is this a simple fix?  I have very little knowledge of carburetors.  

 

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

Thanks, LeeKANSAS

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                 Try setting the idle up higher using the base idle screw on the carburetor. If it still won't idle right and not die

if you set the idle up a little higher, the there is something wrong with your A/C system which is causing excessive head pressure

on the system high side which is loading the engine down more than normal.

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Yes, all those plastic teeth ended up in the oil pan. Bad part over a short period of time they ALL eventually get sucked up into the oil pickup screen.  This cuts down on the needed oil volume to the engine. Yes, you have oil pressure but no volume which is NEEDED not only for pressure but cooling the bearings & other associated oil lubricated parts. You NEED TO DROP THE PAN & CLEAN THEM OUT!!!!

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48 minutes ago, telriv said:

Yes, all those plastic teeth ended up in the oil pan. Bad part over a short period of time they ALL eventually get sucked up into the oil pickup screen.  This cuts down on the needed oil volume to the engine. Yes, you have oil pressure but no volume which is NEEDED not only for pressure but cooling the bearings & other associated oil lubricated parts. You NEED TO DROP THE PAN & CLEAN THEM OUT!!!!

What "plastic teeth" are you referring to? I am not familiar with what you are referring to in this response. I am not much of a carb/AC guy myself.

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  • 1 year later...

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