Jump to content

Construction of a Continental Mark II model, scale 1:12


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

That's a good suggestion. Unfortunately I did not took that dimension and to drive 600 miles one way just for that is out of question! Anyway, even if that cross-member is not at the right place, once the back of the transmission is attached to it, who will care?

Anyway, the difference is  7mm (0.28") wich is rather large.

By looking and looking again at the various pictures I have (V-8 and V-16), I find sometimes answers to questions I have. Who knows, I will maybe find here too!

Edited by Roger Zimmermann (see edit history)
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Keith! As you know, the details are taking the most time, no matter is the car is mall or if it's a real one!

 

Some time ago, I wrote about rivets and my thinking that most cannot be real rivets, but only for show, mostly when the other side of the rivet was obstructed, like the upper and flanges from the frame.
The problem was the same for the running board's brackets. The rivets for those parts are smaller (at least I have this impression) than the ones used on the frame. I tried with the proper quickly done tools to rivet by using a rod diameter 0.8mm (0.03") from a very soft brass. The main issue is to have the proper length which I had after one try. Therefore, the first 8 rivets from that model are done with a decent head in front like in the rear of the part. The head I got is a tad larger than the initial diameter which is what I expected.

139 Small rivets.JPG

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mike! but you know, at this scale finally it's not so hard and no need to take the heaviest hammer from the house! In fact, I would not rely on those rivets for the construction's integrity: they are done for the eye. All elements which were riveted on the real chassis are soft soldered on the model.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

With the help from Johan located in the Netherlands (he is the man who restored the frame and Engine I saw in Germany), I could position the various body and running board supports. Indeed, those supports for the 143" V-16 wheelbase are located at the same place as for the 134" V-8 wheelbase.
When the ordered cooper rivets will come, there will be some hammering to do!
Now, I will do the rear support for the rear springs. A very complex casting.

140 Body supports.JPG

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks John! I responded a number of time at this question. The goal is to have a rolling frame and engine. If I'm still fit, I can add a grille, a hood, some fenders etc. As I will be 75 this year, who knows how many years I still do that?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

To help to understand the task I will do, I'm showing two pictures from that rear support, scale 1:1. You can see that taking dimensions is rather difficult as almost nothing is straight. From the shop manual, I have 2 dimensions: the axle distance to the axle from the front support for the springs and the distance from the top of the frame to the axle. I Germany, I took some dimensions which will help.  To have a better idea, I did a drawing scale 1:1 from that part, comparing the sketch to the many pictures I have. When I was more or less satisfied, I began to cut some brass. I did a major concept error: I did the holes for the axles and attempted to glue on the frame the flat piece I had. This method was indeed unpractical; I did the beginn of the part by screwing on the frame and then I could locate the hole. This is the next picture.
The next step was to add the rounded element on which the bearing will be silver soldered; this is the last picture.
In the meantime, I got the cooper rivets. They are good looking (like rivets!) and the material is very soft. The inconvenient: they are too long. I could shorten them with a file, but for more than 150 pieces, I will be mad long before all are ready. I will to a tool to insert the rivets from the back and put the tool into the lathe. This method should help to have a consistent length for all rivets. I just have to build that tool; this will be done after the supports for the rear springs are finished.

Arrière.JPG

Arrière4.JPG

141 end of frame.JPG

142 end of frame.JPG

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

The rear spring supports were continued by adding the pre-drilled flange on which the rear bumper will be attached and the flange on the side for the last cross member. I'm now fitting the bearing for the shackles.

143 End of frame.JPG

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Roger,
The last time I posted was in 2012. Sitting here at home tonight, and seeing a photo of a MKII someone posted on Facebook, I happened to think of you building this car, and had to check in. 
Aside from first being surprised I remembered my login credentials to this forum, I am pleasantly surprised you are still at it! 
 

Is there a part of me that expected to see the finished car? Naively the answer is yes. But believe me, I am not disappointed in the least!

Sincerely,

Dale

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dale! Thanks for posting again, even if it's after 8 years! You probably saw that the Mark II is indeed ready and I related some more adventures with scale models. The headline of the post is no more absolutely correct as I'm now with something different and from another time by doing a 1932 Cadillac V-16 frame and engine.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The supports for the rear springs and bumper are now done. These small parts are indeed an assembly by silver soldering of 8 distinct parts. The last to be added were the 3 ribs near the bearing. They were soldered once at the time and each time most of the soldering became liquid. Thank to the properties of the silver solder, nothing was shifted. Of course, soldering the various parts cannot be done with a rod but with the paste.
Now, I can play with the rivets!

 

144 End of frame.JPG

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

The last few days, I "installed" about 40 rivets. Finally, I used the method from Bruce to shorten the rivets, doing 9 each time. 2 rivets were lost when they escape from the tweezers, not to be found! I noticed that a too long rivet is more detrimental than a shorter one. Riveting at the flange is also possible with the appropriate "emboss". The rivets have an head a bit larger than what they should; the rivet is therefore inserted from the inside of the channel; what will be mostly visible has now a correct diameter.

I will now begin the fifth and last cross member It's shape is not too difficult but it will not be done in one piece as I cannot stamp it: it would require a very large tool, it makes no sense for just one part.

145 Riveting.JPG

146 Riveting.JPG

147 Riveting.JPG

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

The last cross-member is similar to the rear support for the suspension: difficult to measure, and far from easy to fabricate. When I had draw the profile with the main dimensions, I had a long time to decide which way to begin.
A picture from the original element is attached to the report; it's looking so easy to do! There was already some rationalization at that time: the last cross-member had a provision to attach a spare wheel at the back, or a luggage carrier, depending of the body. It has also a single bracket in the middle to attach the fuel tank: the cross-member #4 has the two other brackets for the tank.

I'm also adding a picture from my part, it's temporarily attached by screws to the frame. This part is indeed an assembly from two elements, silver soldered. It's easy to understand that the cross-member is not yet ready.

crossmember5.jpg

148 Last cross member.JPG

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

The fifth cross member is almost ready; it's not perfect in every aspect, but it reflects the design of the original part. Why almost ready? I have to add and riveting the central support for the gas tank. Next to that, there is one bracket at each chassis end which will get riveted to that fifth cross member. I don't have the exact dimensions for the tank bracket; it will be more or less a guess, allowing to shape the tank "between" the front and rear supports.

149 Cross member ready.JPG

150 Cross member ready.JPG

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

The rear tank support is now completed, riveted to the cross member. Now, I will do the small brackets connecting the lower frame rail to the cross member. A picture from Johan in the Netherland is showing it.

151 Tank support.JPG

Arrière17.JPG

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

The small side brackets are now done. I had to do them with 2 parts assembled by silver soldering. For the moment, all is attached to the side rails with screws. When I will assemble definitively the cross members to the rails, the 5th cross member will be attached first, riveted, and then the small brackets will be added and riveted. A different way of assembly would prevent to insert rivets at 4 places.
I'm going now to the 4th cross member, a simple stamped part just there to support the exhaust tubes and gas tank as I doubt it can add much stability to the frame.

152 brackets.JPG

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4th cross member is ready. I could do it in one piece, taking care to not forget the cutout for the rear axle, getting that way enough space between the differential and the cross member.
Some remarks about that element: the large elements riveted at both ends of the cross member are the supports for the exhaust tubes. Yes, they are rigidly attached to the frame, which was probably usual at that time. The smaller brackets are the ones to attach the fuel tank. I noticed from the pictures that the brackets are indeed done with two pieces of steel. They were probably spot welded together to facilitate the installation. Was it a measure to avoid a sudden dangerous situation in case a bracket made with just one thicker piece of steel would break?

What is the continuation? Well, logically I would do the third cross member, but I could do the first one which is rather complicated. Which one would you see now? I'm adding pictures from the first and from the third cross member.

153 4th cross member.JPG

154 4th cross member.JPG

crossmember.JPG

crossmember.JPG

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

As I wanted to let some time for the people decide if I should do now the first or the third cross member, I was not inactive: I did the small reinforcements for the rubber bumper over the rear axle and the one for the shock absorbers which are the lever type of course.
From the 4 forums I'm publishing this build, only 3 people told me what they would like to see, one for the front crossmember and two for the third one. therefore, the third one is now in the work.
 

155 reinforcements.JPG

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I'm good with whatever crossmember you choose to do, but I think I would like to see the first one. The chassis is looking great.

 

EDIT: Oh well, I guess I was late in replying, third crossmember it is LOL 😉

Edited by Paulie9fingers (see edit history)
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2020 at 11:25 AM, Roger Zimmermann said:

From the 4 forums I'm publishing this build,

 

Roger, do you mind letting us know the other forums you publish on? Best regards Mike

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not a secret: the Cadillac LaSalle forum, the Mark II forum (I related there the construction of the Mark II and got a lot of help from their members; I'm publishing this new construction there just for entertainment) and a scale model forum: www.scalemotorcars.com

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

That third cross member seems easy to do, but it has also his difficulties. For once, I did a scale drawing, scale 1:6 to understand the upper stamping. When the drawing was more or less similar to the various pictures, I continue that project with the die set for the upper end stampings. A good picture from an original frame will avoid tedious explanation. Than the picture of my drawing and the die set at the left (I did only the half to simplify), the part as stamped, but not yet ready and a stamped sample.
I'm still unsure how to do the lower part...
 

Chassis drive train done (16).jpg

156 third cross member.JPG

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Paulie! No, the stamping is different, simpler. However, the curved area is making the reproduction more difficult; I will have to do the lower part with several parts silver soldered together.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

To continue with the lower part from the third cross member, I assembled temporarily the trimmed upper part on the frame. I added a flange at the cross member as it's riveted at the upper, lower and at the sides of the frame rails, 10 rivets each side!

157 Third cross member.JPG

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks very good in there, 10 rivets is a lot of rivets in that small area, I'm sure you've already been thinking through the installation process and accessibility.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some will be accessible from the back side, some will not be. They will be dummy rivets! Anyway, the cross members are soft soldered on the rails; the rivets are more for the show!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

If the upper half was requiring some tooling, it was more economical with silver soldering: only the end flanges to be riveted at the side of the rail were added. It was a different matter with the lower part: no tooling, but the parts is an assembly of 9 pieces. The pictures are attached showing the various steps.
The lower "legs" were adjusted by removing excess material until the frame rails were square. This cross member is very rigid, adding a lot of strength to the frame.
Logically I would now do the second cross member, but I will do indeed the first one. The reason is that when the first cross member is ready, it will be easier to locate the second one as I have the length of the engine and transmission. The second cross bar is indeed the support for the transmission, it must be positioned correctly!

158 Third cross member.JPG

159 Continue the cross member.JPG

160 Continue the cross member.JPG

161 Cross member ready.JPG

162 Cross member ready.JPG

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...