Guest stude8 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 (edited) This is a digital copy of a print owned by a good friend that we have been trying to positively identify the Native American man cranking what is thought to be a 1907? Pope-Toledo car. After spending many lunch hours browsing native American photo archives on line this image has never been located.From comparisons, I have arrived at this being a man known as "Iron Tail" who is most famous as the source of the facial image portrayed on the United States "Nickle" five cent piece coin. He later worked for William F. Cody Wild West Shows early in the last century. Cody was known to have a Pope-Toledo vehicle in that time frame. *See Pahaska post card image.Several years ago at Hershey a Pope-Toledo on display had the same image in a frame leaning against its front wheel.Can anyone confirm or correct my estimation?Stude8<!-- google_ad_section_end --> *Previously posted in Period Photo thread Edited February 8, 2010 by stude8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 The red Pope shown at Hershey may belong to Corky and/or Harold Coker, in Chattanooga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 The Pope-Toledo pictured at Hershey belongs to Don Boulton of Oklahoma City. Tim Ohlendorf restored the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldenguy Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I didn't notice earlier but Don is standing on the right side of the photo facing the camera. And Ohlendorfs do a super job on restorations!-Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsbob Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 In the Jan. - Feb. issue of V8 Times the same B & W picture as posted here is used with three other B & W photos of American Indians with/in cars in an article about a sculpture created by artist Dave McGary.The sculpture is American Indians in and next to a '32 Ford roadster.The article indicates that he got the inspiration for the sculpture while reviewing photos at the Smithsonian when he was commissioned to produce a monument of Chief Washakie a Shoshone War Chief that is on display in the nations capital.Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsbob Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Corky Coker is also in that photo...Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 TO MDSBOBThanks for the V8 Times and Smithsonian tips, I'll investigate them to hopefully find the source of the Pope-Toledo image. I found this link Smithsonian Images: Digital Photography, Printed Pictures, Historic Images, and E-Cardsthat has a large selection of images available on line, so many so I will have to go to town to the Hbg library that has DSL service, our Verizon dial up is pityfully slow when it comes to images in quantity.Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar BUYER Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I stayed at that very place a few years ago (Pahaska TeePee, east gate, Yellowstone Park, Wy) It was a camp where Buffalo Bill spend a lot of time. Simply a beautiful place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsbob Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Now available on Ebay:NATIVE INDIAN ? Vintage ? OLD CAR ? Automobile ? 16"RP - eBay (item 380327385590 end time Apr-01-11 14:46:39 PDT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Whoever he is he appears to have his thumb on the wrong side of the crank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 It look like his thumb is tucked in, but I thought that the idea of the thumb being broken, or even torn off had been debunked. If you re cranking clockwise and the car backfires, the crank would be pulled loose from your grip, causing little or no damage. The problem arises when the crank continues in a counter clockwise direction and cracks you on the forearm at a high rate of speed. Same with pushing down on the crank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I have a 10" scar on my right arm from crank starting a 1928 Autocar. 3 days in the hospital and a stainless steel plate fixed me right up. Exactly as you describe, the crank failed to disengage properly and continued around and smacked me. Hurt too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Now available on Ebay:NATIVE INDIAN ? Vintage ? OLD CAR ? Automobile ? 16"RP - eBay (item 380327385590 end time Apr-01-11 14:46:39 PDT)Who wants to pay a $25 starting bid plus $15 shipping when you could just download it on card stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsbob Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Who wants to pay a $25 starting bid plus $15 shipping when you could just download it on card stock?Maybe I should have clarified in my post that this is not my Ebay listing. I have nothing to do with the Ebay item.I just posted the link to the Ebay item since it was the same image as previously discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 To MDSBOB, thanks for the heads up about the Indian & Pope Toledo image, too bad the text overprint can't be detached after down loading. Also too bad the seller hasn't any clue about factual identification. They probably scanned another early print they found.Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Maybe I should have clarified in my post that this is not my Ebay listing. I have nothing to do with the Ebay item.I just posted the link to the Ebay item since it was the same image as previously discussed.I realiized that you weren't the poster, mdsbob. I was just wondering out loud how some people think they can find a pictire on the internet and sell as many copies for $25 or more as suckers can be found. Even the $15 shipping seems extreme to mail a card. I guess it's $13 for handling.I also noticed the overprint but there are plenty of clean pics on this site alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Lytle Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 I believe the date is approximately correct. My Great Grandfather raced Pope Toledo in the Vanderbilt Cup and in Europe up until 1907-8. In our family album, there are a series of similar photos which are numbered. Like the other photos by Nathan Lazarnick that we have, it would seem to me that these were Pope-Toledo promotional pictures. As to the name of of the Native American Indian, wish I could help.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Looks like something from Hollywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 I think that they were part of the "Wild West" show 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Appears someone is merging old and new related threads again? I sometimes have mixed feelings about that. However, certainly in this case, it is an appropriate merge. I do think think that a mention (along the lines of the "two months later" notations?) might also be appropriate? Regardless, Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) I've seen several photos in the past of the same automobile with Native Americans riding in it. Thought I read somewhere that Buffalo Bill gifted a car to Chief Sitting Bull and maybe Chief Geronimo? https://www.pinterest.com/pin/717972365572843293/ Also look Here. Scroll down to see Eskimo Automobile Transfer Company, Alaska, 1905. The auto looks like it could be the same. https://historicalhorizons.org/2015/12/18/what-do-we-see-in-a-picture-of-geronimo/ Also the same photo that you have via the library of congress. Dandy Dave! https://www.pinterest.com/pin/132856257744993696/ Edited May 21, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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