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1928 Studebaker brake parts, radiator and shell needed


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Thanks to this AACA forum area and old car friends willing to share experience and a bit of time. I now have a chassis that is no longer a "Mystery", per the "What is it" forum. However, I now have a name for this project. It will be the "Mystery 8 Special". Please look at the attached image closely. You will notice that the left front wheel brake cross shaft is missing the inner ball or pivot joint. Do any of you have spare parts that could help me make the pivot point complete. I suspect that maybe the 1928 and 1929 Studebakers may be the same. I am also looking for a radiator shell and radiator for a 1927-1930 Studebaker to use on this project. Please feel free to send me a private email.

Regards,

Al

425-864-3667 eves

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Allan

The Perrot brake linkage system was only used in 1928. I suspect they experienced field problems (when springs and shocks aged on a hard turn over a pot hole the cross shaft could disengage the ball joint due to wear and slop) and it was also expensive so a more reliable, economical linkage was devised. I had a damaged ball joint on my GB due to a small impact accident years ago. Luckily and friend in NY had parts from a 28 President he had parted out. The Perrot shaft was a differant length and some other minor variations could be seen. It did replace my GB parts OK. But I can say finding Perrot parts is going to be a task.

Attached are photos of the 28 LF brake detail and 1929-30 LF detail to show the changes. In the Perrot shafts photo the Green primered shaft is the replacement FB to replace the severly worn GB shaft at top.

There were other than Studebaker models that used Perrot, I'll have to reduce the file sizes of the scans I have from Chilton Brake literature and add it to forum later.

Stude8

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Below are the reduced resolution scans from 1937 Chilton Brake manual about the Bendix 3 shoe Perrot service, if they don't print out legible send me a PM and we can work out a full res set on CD. Stude8

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Hello Stude8,

Thanks once again for the information you have shared. I am hopeful that someone will have a parts car and be able to assist me with parts. I will check to see if the brake information will print in good order. Tell me, how good is this brake system. from a mechanical standpoint, and stopping a car? What size tire does a 1928 GB Commander use? I am starting to think of gearing etc.

Regards, Alan

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I used Denman 6.00 x 20 tires on my 28 GB which is a wood spoke wheel car.

The same size would apply to wire wheels also I believe.

Inflated to 45 PSI they measure 32-1/2" diameter at edge of tread maybe a little more at center line? *I just ran out and remeasured from flat concrete floor to C/L of front spindle = 15-3/4" that should be what you use for calculations assuming the vehicle weighs about what a Victoria Big Six does.

Stude8

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I guessed that the size was either 20 or 21", based upon the year. Gearing is an issue to resolve. As it is now, it is still a mystery. I am anxious to start on this project but need to get past our winter weather before I can get to the chassis.

Al

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Hello Stude8,

Your link was to another thread on hub pulling was good! Do you remember exactly what you cut your ID threads to? I will get started on a hub puller right away. I already have most of the stuff built, leftover from another puller I built. My design is somewhat similar to your design but a bit different.

Thanks,

Alan

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Hey Stude8,

Another question already. When you go back together with your rear hubs on the axle taper, do you put on an anti-seize or assemble dry? Do you put heat to your hub just before you install to get a good bite on the shaft and thus avoid some headache with a hub coming loose while going down the road, (or maybe going fast into a corner at a raceway?

Regards, Alan

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Hi Alan

Don't use any lubricant on the axle taper. Doing so can result in the hub splitting. I would hesitate to use heat for the same reason. Good to see that the chassis has been identified.

Terry

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Hello Terry,

I work in the power plant business where big equipment is the norm, we typically do use an anti-seize before mating a taper hub to a shaft, but then we also use a torque spec. so we don't over do the pull on. I know its bad to pull on to tight, but I have worked on old cars that have not had the hubs pulled on adequately and that is not nice either. You then get to replace hub, axle, brake parts, and maybe even body parts. :mad:

Regards,

Alan

PS it is nice to have this forum to help us share our knowledge and experience.

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First of all they didn't have definite torque values at that time to tighten axle nuts. I have seen comments in Chilton books about "150 LB man on 16" Stilson wrench".

After the efforts to get those hubs off I decided to use a very light glazing of Permatex #133A anti sieze compound in case it ever has to come off in the future. Then I carefully torqued the axle nut to the 150lbs range where the next cotter pin opening in the castle nut aligned with the axle passage hole. I feel the hub is tight enough to be bonded across the length of the taper so there will be no loosening or migration of the key.

My opinion of using too much anti sieze on the taper and then torquing to some big value is what can crack a hub because the lube effect helps the hub ride up the taper beyond the cracking point...a case of bad judgement. I don't think the end thrust experienced in driving is what leads to the hub cracking.

I'll report back if my theory is wrong.

Stude8

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Hello Stude8,

Your idea goes along closely with our mechanical practices at the power plant. Just a comment.... I have seen many more issues that involve a hub coming loose than a hub that was to tight. Ford, Dodge Bros. etc. none are allergic to having hubs come loose and causing damage. I have studied the front brakes on the Mystery Chassis and can see that both the frame brackets are either broken or missing. I may have a full set that I can use as a pattern if I need to build something and that is good. Thanks for your images above that show your brake parts.

Regards,

Alan

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Hi Alan

I concur with what Stude8 said. A very thin film of anti-seize compound and attention paid to the torque applied would likely do the job. As he said torque specs for cars of that age don't exist, so getting it right was more a case of luck than anything else. The service manual for my Dictator simply says to tighten it with a heavy wrench. (I think we've gone to the other extreme today. I don't think there is a screw, nut or bolt on a modern car that doesn't have a torque value applied to it.) Considering your line of work, I'm sure you're aware of this, but it bears mentioning that incorrectly installed axle keys can also cause cracked hubs and even broken axles, particularly if it is a tapered key.

Terry

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I would not use any lubrication on a tapered shaft.

Before putting the key in,I would apply some very fine grinding compound on the shaft and tun the hub,held on by the nut but still loose enough to turn the hub for a while

and after removing the hub again ,checking to see if there high spots.

Clean the shaft very good with solvent and assemble dry.

Robert Kapteyn

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Stude 8 .I read your very interesting post on the 1928 Studebaker Perrot brake system.

Bendix bought the rights for the Perrot system in 1924.

I can not find any references in the parts books other than a note on an update sheet

dated August 1928 that Studebaker does supply complete brake systems but to contact the Wahl Company in Chicago for individual parts.

I think that most earlier cars had 2 wheel brake systems and did not need the Perrot.

Studebaker designed a simpler system for later cars.

I saw a box at a swapmeet once that had a complete inventory of the individual parts

from Bendix for the Perrot system , used on a variety of cars.

Robert Kapteyn

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Hello RBK,

Thanks for your comments about brakes and you observations about lube or no lub between the hub and axle taper. I sure wish you could put a name to the fellow that had the box of spare brake parts. Better systems may be out there, but I would like to give a try to make the original system work before I toss in the towel and modify to something else. Do you have any loose Studebaker Radiator shells from 1927 to 1930?

Regards,

Alan

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