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D11 vs D15 Engine


Guest dbnz

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Does anyone know the difference between a D11 and D15 Engine (the D15 is 25 1/2 inches long)?

There is potentially a reconditioned D15 engine for sale locally supposedly it has come from a 1955 car but according to the Dodge Story a D15 is a 1940 Canadian car the seller says that many Dodges had D15 engines.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

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Guest Bill-W
Does anyone know the difference between a D11 and D15 Engine (the D15 is 25 1/2 inches long)?

There is potentially a reconditioned D15 engine for sale locally supposedly it has come from a 1955 car but according to the Dodge Story a D15 is a 1940 Canadian car the seller says that many Dodges had D15 engines.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Yes, the D15 is a 1940 engine, but only model D15 cars used a "D15" engine.

The 1955 Dodge six (Plymouth-based) should be D54, which is either 228 (if mated to a manual transmission) or 251 (with Powerflite). The 251 engine had an "X" suffix on the engine number.

The D15 was a 218.1-cid engine, the same size used on Canadian-built 1940 D14 and D16 models as well as 1941 (D19, D20, D21), 1940-41 Plymouths and all 1942 to mid-1953 Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges.

The Canadian-built D11 also used a 218.1-cid engine, so the size would be correct for a D11.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

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Thanks Bill.

If anyone is interested the following in a link showing a D11 for sale here in NZ. It shows the interior leather, steering wheel etc which is typical of most D11's here.

I am not sure that the rear winged badge is correct and the dash has been painted.

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Guest Dodge Deluxe

Thank you for posting the link, quite interesting. It's fun to see the slight differences between the New Zealand car and my own '39 D11 here in the States. Such as the single tail light, lack of fender top mounted parking lights, and the obvious right hand drive.

Thanks again.

Regards;

Dan

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The seller of the engine said that the engine has a 3 7/16 bore.

Looking at the parts book I have it indicates the canadian built D11, d12 and D13 should have a 3 3/8 bore, US Built D12 -3/18bore and D11X-D12X 2 7/8 and standard engine D11 3 1/4.

Why so may eigines?

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Up until 1938 Canadian made Chrysler products used engines imported from the US. Starting in 1938, the Canadian Chrysler plant got its own engine facility.

This plant made only one engine, the flathead 6 cylinder used in US made Chryslers and DeSotos. In order to make engines suitable for all kinds of cars and trucks, they made the same block with 2 different cylinder bores, 3 3/8 and 3 7/16. Generally speaking the smaller bore engine went in Plymouth Dodge and Dodge trucks while the larger bore engine went in Chrysler and DeSoto cars.

By using a longer stroke crankshaft they could make the same engine in various sizes. If you compare the US made engines to the Canadian made ones, you will find they had practically the same displacement and horsepower model for model. For example the 217 cu in (US) and 218 cu in (Canadian) were a very popular size for Plymouths. Then there was a 228 (Canadian) and 230 (US) used by Dodge and later year Plymouths.

This disguised the fact that the American made Plymouth and Dodge had a completely different engine.

Most of the cars exported to British Commonwealth countries came from Canada because there was no import duties between Commonwealth countries.

So you are likely to find a lot of these odd Canadian engines. The easy way to tell them apart is by the length, Canadian engines and US made Chrysler and DeSoto engines measure 25 1/4 inches long at the head, while the US Plymouth and Dodge measure 23 inches.

Other than that they look remarkably similar.

Here are some common sizes gleaned from old service data books. Right now the info I have on hand only covers back to 1942. Before that I only have the US models. There may have been some other models made in the 1938 to 41 period for Canadian Plymouth and Dodge.

3 3/8 X 4 1/16 = 218 used in Plymouth 1940-59 small Dodge 40-59

3 3/8 X 4 1/4 = 228 used in DeSoto 37-41 large Dodge 40-59 some 54-59 Plymouths with automatic transmission

3 3/8X 4 1/2 = 241 used in Chrysler 38-41

3 7/16 X 4 1/4 = 237 used in DeSoto 42-50

3 7/16 X 4 1/2 = 251 used in Chrysler 42-51 DeSoto 51 also used in some Dodge trucks i

in the fifties and in military 3/4 ton Dodge 4 wheel drive Power

Wagons from the forties to 1972.

3 7/16 X 4 3/4 = 265 used in Chrysler 52-54 DeSoto 52-54 some Dodge 1 ton and larger trucks up to 1962 and Chrysler industrial and

marine to 1972. This was the biggest and best version with full flow

oil filter.

1959 was the last year for the flathead 6 in cars and pickup trucks, after that they got the OHV slant six.

The 251 and 265 were used in heavy trucks until 1962. Military Power Wagons used the 251 until 1968. Industrial and marine engines were made until 1972.

A lot of these were used by Massey in combines. So don't overlook abandoned farm machinery as a source of engines.

If you compare the Canadian cars to the American made equivalents the relationship will become clear.

You can see they only had 1 engine with 2 cylinder bores and 4 crankshafts. By juggling these in different combinations they made a variety of engines for different applications.

I have even seen an industrial engine with 3 7/16 bore and 4 1/16 stroke for 225 cubic inches.

All these crankshafts will interchange in all blocks. The pistons are the same bore for bore, but you have to use the connecting rods that match the crankshaft as they are different lengths.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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Incidentally all these blocks used the same casting so you can rebore a 3 3/8 block the same as a 3 7/16.

Plus in those days they were generous with their cylinder wall thickness. Up to a 1/8 bore increase was within specs.

So you can bore any of these blocks to 3 9/16 if you wish. Combine this with the 4 3/4 stroke crankshaft and you get 284 cu in. Quite a power increase for your 218 Plymouth.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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Thanks for the reply.

I managed to pull my parts book apart, and copied the following which may help piece together the 39 info.

Let me know if anyone else wants anything copied, the book deals will all models and has a number of useful illustrations.

Regards Philip

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post-44765-143138153615_thumb.jpg

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Guest Bill-W

For a complete list of Chrysler of Canada flatheads, 25" block, used in cars -

3-3/8" bore

201.3 - 3-3/4" bore - 1938-39 Plymouth and small Dodge

218.1 - 4-1/16" bore - 1938-41 big Dodge and 1940-mid1953 Plymouth and small Dodge

228.1 - 4-1/4" bore - 1938-41 DeSoto, 1942-52 big Dodge and mid1953-1954 Plymouth and small Dodge

Also 1955 Plymouth and small Dodge with manual transmission

241.5 - 4-1/2" stroke - 1938-1941 Chrysler

3-7/16" bore :

236.6 - 4-1/4" stroke - 1942-1950 DeSoto

250.6 - 4-1/2" stroke - 1942-1951 Chrysler and 1951 DeSoto, 1955 Plymouth and small Dodge with Powerflite, 1956-1959 Plymouth and small Dodge

264.5 - 4-3/4" stroke - 1952-1954 DeSoto and Chrysler

All imported models, such as convertibles, used the same engines as in the U.S. Thus a Canadian-built 1953 Plymouth Cranbrook Belvedere hardtop had a 218-cid 25" block engine while the imported convertible had a 217-cid 23" block engine.

Straight eight engines were never built in Canada and neither were cars with straight eights after 1937.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

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I do know the tooling for the 1954 Plymouth wound up in Australia where it was used until the early 60s.They made sedans and utes badged as Plymouth Dodge or DeSoto. They came with the flathead 6 and later, the polysphere V8 (which Detroit said wouldn't fit).

Whether the engines were imported or made in Australia I do not remember.

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Guest Bill-W
I do know the tooling for the 1954 Plymouth wound up in Australia where it was used until the early 60s.They made sedans and utes badged as Plymouth Dodge or DeSoto. They came with the flathead 6 and later, the polysphere V8 (which Detroit said wouldn't fit).

Whether the engines were imported or made in Australia I do not remember.

The long block flatheads usually came from Canada, as did the poly V8 engines, while the short block flatheads came from England (Kew).

The 1953-56 Plymouths were sold in Australia as Plymouths, Dodges and DeSotos, with the appropriate 1953 / 54 grille. From 1957 to 1962 they were sold as Chrysler Royal, which was the 1953-54 body with 1956 Plymouth front clip, rear fenders and a larger wraparound rear window.

The V8 engine fit as the American Dodge hardtop and convertible were built on the Plymouth chassis. As well, the front clip of the 114" wheelbase U.S. Dodge was used on the Dodge Kingsway and Canadian Dodge. So, if a Coronet hardtop could be had with a V8, there was no reason why any 114" wheelbase 1953-54 Mopar car could not have a V8 engine.

The engineering excuse was one of dodging the questions as to why Plymouth did not get a V8 engine in 1953 or 1954.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

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There was a magazine article on the Australian Chryslers a while back. One of the engineers interviewed said the V8 did not fit without modification. They had to change the steering and do other changes under the hood. So Detroit was right that the V8 did not fit, they had to alter the car to make it fit.

I was referring to the original question which said the engine was a 1955, this could would only make sense if the engine were Australian made and they had their own numbering system. But if the engines were imported this theory is disproved.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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Guest elmo39

the aussies used the US or Candian engines up till they introduced the 3 7/16 engine late in 1958, up till then they used the same engine id as canada and the US . when the 3 7/16 long block first came out it was as a KEW. later models up to 1960 when i think they stopped production of the 54 style were either PE1 OR PE2 . or if you had the V8 it was a L-V OR M-V which was a 313. this information comes from a 1957-1960 Australian parts book that i have , plus ealier aussie manuals that i have access to.

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  • 11 years later...
  • 3 months later...
On 6/13/2021 at 8:00 AM, David Alex said:

Dear Sirs

I have a straight 6 cylinders and I want to know, which brand (Chrysler, Dodge or Plymouth?) and year could be the engine. I find a number: 0L01383 on the block (front/left) and casting number: 2202772 on the head

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Can you share a picture of the casting numbers found under the distributor next to the breather? With that information I should be able to narrow down what you have.

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