When Did BCA Fees go to $50 per year?

[page2171]

I don't understand people leaving because of the modified cars. Oh the horror...people doing what they want to the cars that they own. :eek: Of course, I also don't get the fascination with 400 point judging.

[Guest windjamer]

Love when these non-BCA, or even appears to be non-Buick owners feel the need to stir the pot. One of the downsides to being attached to the hip of the AACA forum.

Attached at the hip??? Keith I made the statement that I did not join the BCA (though I wanted to) because the BCA dosent do anything in my aera. I did not mean to criticise your club,but only to point out I thought the BCA needed to be more active in order to gain new members. If I hurt your feelings I do apologize. With that said, the views I express on this forum are mine and mine alone, you have every right to disagree,but attack me, not the AACA. Have a good day, your fellow AACA member and 2 Buicks owner.

[Guest my3buicks]

Attached at the hip??? Keith I made the statement that I did not join the BCA (though I wanted to) because the BCA doesn't do anything in my area. I did not mean to criticise your club,but only to point out I thought the BCA needed to be more active in order to gain new members. If I hurt your feelings I do apologize. With that said, the views I express on this forum are mine and mine alone, you have every right to disagree,but attack me, not the AACA. Have a good day, your fellow AACA member and 2 Buick's owner.

Dick, I was referring to the post directly before mine - not yours. As far as the attached to the hip, i have long been opposed to the BCA forums being a sub group of the AACA forums, nothing new there. Many of the people that visit the Buick section do not even realize it is "supposed" to be the BCA forum thus it does not really promote the club.

Edited January 11, 2010 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[Guest windjamer]

Once again I apologize,my mistake. I believe we do better togather.

[NTX5467]

Nothing will solve the BCA's financial shortfall other than new members AND existing and prior members continuing to renew their memberships--period. Buick Enthusiasts of all types, not just those who prefer completely stock vehicles.

The addition of the modified division should have expanded the appeal of the club, just as having the Archival and Driver Classes were supposed to expand the appeal of driving one's Buick to BCA National Meets so there's something other than the 400 Point Judged vehicles on display . . . until some "rules" got in the way.

Considering that Buick engines were the engine of choice for many hot rods in prior times, NOT having modified Buicks in the BCA National Meets was one exclusion that didn't seem right to me, not to forget that many earlier Buicks lent their lines to some completely beautiful customized cars. It's all part of the Buick legacy and heritage, just as keeping some Buicks "as produced" or "over-restored" are necessary to have for historical reference vehicles.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[page2171]

I joined the BCA after being introduced to it and the Bugle at a car show probably nine years ago or so. Not really sure why I keep renewing my membership. The Bugle is OK, but I could survive without it. The Buick car shows I have been to I have felt so out of place at that I don't get real excited about going to another. Maybe that would be different if I was able to bring my Buick to one, since I haven't been able to bring my car to one yet. But, at the Buick car shows I have been to I seem to have been the youngest person there by at least a decade, and everybody seems to be part of a clique that I am intruding in. For now, I will probably keep my membership and hope I can somehow fit in, but it gets harder and harder each year.

[Restorer32]

I asked the question re the reaction to BCA showcasing modified cars. I did not offer a pro or con opinion. FYI, we have been a member of BCA for at least 10 years off and on and while I personally only own 1 Buick, a 1948 Estate Wagon, currently under restoration, we have restored 2 '53 Skylarks and are currently doing a '54 Skylark as well as a '37 Carved Side Hearse. I repeat my question. Did membership decrease or increase following the inclusion of modified cars? If it increased maybe the club needs to lean more in that direction to increase membership. If it decreased that tells us something also, does it not?

[38Buick 80C]

In response to your question, as a BOD member I see the renewal and new members numbers each month. As I recall things have been pretty consistent over the past 6 months with no noticeable blip in either direction due to the Bugle focusing on modifieds. Even if there was a blip it would be difficult to directly attribute it to the modified issue since there is no specific feedback process as to why people join, renew, or do not renew.

Also I know I have received no feedback as a BOD on the modified issue, which is a sign that it was well received. I personally prefer to keep cars like they came from the factory, but I have great respect for the craftsmen who build modified cars as it takes tremendous talent. I personally thought Pete did a fine job with the modified issue and found the content enjoyable to read.

Hope that helps.

[NTX5467]

My gut suspicion is that when the Modified Division was formed, it probably brought existing BCA members "out of the woodwork" (who were already involved, at their local level, with modified Buicks). I seem to recall that it did motivate some modified Buick owners to be first-time BCA members, but I don't believe it was "in the hundreds" per se.

Unfortunately, there were already some street-rod/performance car clubs which were Buick-oriented plus other owners of customized Buicks had several multi-brand clubs they could belong to . . . but most probably nothing nearly as wide-spread as the BCA is, geographically. Therefore, the modified Buick owners already has "options" from other groups which embraced their vehicles.

I also recall some people leaving the BCA (and this forum) due to the formation of the Modified Division as a separate BCA entity. To them, only "correct for end of the assembly line" Buicks should be allowed, plus ONLY after they were 12+ years old. All in all, I suspect there might have been a small net gain once the Modified Division was fully operational.

We've discussed it in here before, that "cliqueishness" of some car club groups at weekend cruise events, or club events. I've seen it, as most of us have, and it just seems to be a part of the territory, unfortunately.

I've also observed that some people are so caught-up in their car(s), that if your car isn't like their car, it doesn't exist. Be that as it may . . . I've also found some car club members that would keep you all night talking about cars in general, including yours and theirs and others. "War stories", etc.

To me, going to a cruise is about seeing the cars and also seeing old friends I haven't seen in a while AND the cars they now have or are working on. To enjoy the cars and respectfully look at them, you don't need to be in a clique, just BE THERE. I suspect that if the owner sees you're interested, they'll probably be proud to tell you about their car and ask about yours . . . after which, hopefully, a friendly exchange of conversation might follow.

Hopefully, if you regularly attend these cruise events, somebody will recognize that you've been there before, which might make conversations easier to happen (with an acknowledged "something in common" now evident).

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Guest BJM]

All right. Here you go - putting my money where my, er mouth is. I requested a 03-01-2010 through 03-01-2011 membership period and I will just tuck money aside in an envelope for renewal.

I know that sounds silly but my world runs best on a budget, even for $50 renewals. Last time I looked, my paycheck had automatic deductions for helath, retirement, daughter's college, savings, stock option etc.

I look forward to helping at the National Meet in Ames and once the snow clears I will get the the Lincoln Highway tour guide completed.

Edited January 13, 2010 by BJM (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Well y'all got me for another three years, like it or not. I'm a member because I found this site and good old JohnD1956 twisted my arm to join up. ( It didn't take much twisting..) Also, signing up for three more years made the most economic sense. I could of waisted more in one night on dancin girls and booze.. LOL Actually, After seeing my 1915 Buick on the front cover in July of 08, I am sold for life. Dandy Dave!

Edited January 13, 2010 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Lapham3]

I don't feel that strongly one way or the other=a very casual member for a dozen years or so. I was never that enthused to find that the Twin Cities had 2 chapters spliting smallish member numbers-and I like to work on my cars and write few checks-most members are the other way-

[Dandy Dave]

I like to work on my cars and write few checks-most members are the other way-

I do all of my own work. :cool: Dandy Dave!

[Bhigdog]

I do all my own work so how come I still have to write those BIG checks?...............Bob

[Guest WEB 38]

I Also do all my own work, And how do I justify tryiing to recruit new members when here in northern Indiana the unemployment is at 15% and BCA has raised its dues over 40% in a little over two years. What do you think that this is doing to the local chapters that have to bit the bullet. Bill WEB 38

[Guest windjamer]

Honest to goodness I DONT want to start ww3,but I do wonder how many new members will sign up just to show at this years Nat.

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Well I thought my feelings on this were perfectly clear. But Ill try once again .

Raising dues is a bad idea.

It decreases membership

It upsets current members

Some of those current members wont renew

Higher dues makes recruiting new members even harder

Were raising dues because of declining membership

Does anybody see anything like a death spiral in the two statements made above

Am I the only one smart enough to make this connection ?

Its a BAD BAD BAD idea

This club will die going down this road.

Is anybody listening?

Dont think I can make it any plainer than that

Edited January 18, 2010 by Dans 77 Limited (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Dan, What are you trying to say????

[1939_Buick]

When you consider inflation over the 25 years I have been a BCA member fees are not much different.

[Guest Skyking]

It's $50 this year, it will be $60 next year and it will be $100 the following year. Where does it end?

[Guest BJM]

I ponied up the $50, next I will join AACA in February then add memberships to the other car manufacturers I own or will own. This will stagger it.

It's weird but it feels good to be in the BCA again. I feel like I can represent.

[RICK YOUNG]

Well lot's of good fodder here.

I'd like to ad my 2 cents (as Paul would say).

For some it seems like it's members against the Buick Club of America or Buick Club of America against the members.

The BCA IS the members. All the Board Members stop by here often. They're doing their best to keep the thing going. They're spending hundreds of hours a year volunteering time to make decisions that effect us all.

The dues raise was not taken lightly and was highly scrutinized by each of them.

Bottom line (as John Force would say) there is not a majic money tree to take from if the finances turn upside down.

You can't please 8700 members all the time.

The harsh reality is our demographic are getting older.

We continue to look at differant ideas to make this Club continue and prosper.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

Constructive criticism welcome anytime.

Regards

[Lapham3]

Maybe somebody will come along and 'save the day'-I've seen this before with nonprofits-it may be the guy that has lots of perfect Buicks-likes the stadium named for him-or anonymous-whatever...

[gsjohnny]

I asked the question re the reaction to BCA showcasing modified cars. I did not offer a pro or con opinion. FYI, we have been a member of BCA for at least 10 years off and on and while I personally only own 1 Buick, a 1948 Estate Wagon, currently under restoration, we have restored 2 '53 Skylarks and are currently doing a '54 Skylark as well as a '37 Carved Side Hearse. I repeat my question. Did membership decrease or increase following the inclusion of modified cars? If it increased maybe the club needs to lean more in that direction to increase membership. If it decreased that tells us something also, does it not?

the bpg and the gs/gn club has advocated joining the bca for quite a while. i cant give you numbers, but they have joined since changes were made by the bca.

and i do bring stock, modified and race cars to the local bca shows. the kids(6 to 60) love the race car.

[gsjohnny]

one other note. i currently do not belong to the bca. i'm still waiting on the other thread concerning how/why the bca is going to recruit new membership.

[Guest BJM]

one other note. i currently do not belong to the bca. i'm still waiting on the other thread concerning how/why the bca is going to recruit new membership.

GSJohnny,

It's NOT the BCA's job to recruit new membership. The BCA puts a "product" out there - for sure - but is not in the business of "recruiting" new members.

If so, how would you suggest they do it?

To be sure, it's done by having FUN. We don't need old cars. FUN starts with being able to share your passion for Buicks with others of the same mind. That starts with a national organization which is clearly in place.

Next there are local chapters. There is a great magazine - the Bugle. There is this website and the BCA's own website. There are sub-groups like the GS club, the Reatta group and other groups that share a common bond - the ROA.

To ask the group to "recruit" new members beyond this is not accomplishable. We each can reach out to Buicks we see in local shows, which I do and did - and include our BCA # underneath our name - which I do.

By the way, I saved a bucket seat/console 1966 Skylark GS from being parted out because I put my BCA # under my name in a responsive email. Now, at the time I was NOT a BCA member but look further up this thread and you will see I rejoined. I chafe at the $50 but I want to participate.

But the guy that sold me the GS - said he wanted it to be saved and restored not parted out - and when he saw my BCA # under my name - he sold me the car.

Join the BCA today for personal reasons, don't wait for others. Send me your contact information by PM and I'll send you $50 cash. If you join, that will be 3 members I signed up in 3 weeks (including myself) If each of the 8500 members did this, we would be at roughly 24,000 members and my subscription cost would go down!

Edited January 20, 2010 by BJM (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

BJM, You Da Man!

I was just thinking that there isn't too many places that you can go for a day and not spend at least $50 for just gas and meals.

Hello out there, the 1900's are over. :eek: This is 2010. Welcome to the Twenty Second Century :cool: Dandy Dave!

Edited January 20, 2010 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[jscheib]

Well said Dave. I have not loked at this thread for some time, for fear some of the comments would raised my BP.

Cars are fun. enjoy and join the BCA, I say. $50. is well worth it, in my opinion.

John

[sligermachine]

On 12/31/2009 at 7:50 AM, MrEarl said:

thoughts on the Bugle would be helpful.

ok lets do that.-kyle

[MCHinson]

On 12/23/2009 at 9:18 AM, Barney Eaton said:

Bill Stoneberg gave a financial presentation at both the general membership meeting and the Board meeting. He was able to show where the BCA would be financially by changing various entries in the budget. The most interesting items are the membership numbers and dues.

We have very close to a $330,000 budget. Simple math indicates that 9,000 members divided into that number = $37 each. We no longer have 9,000 members, we have 8,500 and falling, that is a $20,000 income shortfall. At $40 membership we had a $17,000 cushion (5% of the budget). There was and is no indication that membership will stop sliding and the members that attended the general membership meeting and the Board meeting made it clear that they did not want the Bugle downgraded.

The Board had looked at several cost reductions to the Bugle (which represents 70% of the budget) the number of pages could be reduced, the number of color pages could be reduced, the paper could be changed, all of these came with a dollar figure and various combinations of these reductions could have put us on track.....at least for a while.

The Board also delayed printing and distrubution of the Roster to move funds to next year.

The Board looked at raising the dues to $45 per year......after much discussion (in an open meeting) there were a couple of facts that caused the dues to be increased to $50.

(1) There was/is no end in site for the decline in membership....both the Board members and the audience speculated why this is happening.

(2) We know from past history that when the dues are increased, more people feel they can no longer scrape up the extra change per month.........so we would loose people with any increase, that being a given, the decision was to make the increase from $40 to $50 and build in a cushion.

In the June 2009 issue of the Bugle (page 12) I wrote an open letter to the BCA membership telling everyone that read it that we were in a financial bind. I spelled out the information above and gave the membership the option to solve the problem. More members reduce the cost to everyone. If we had 10,000 member and the same budget, the per member cost would be $33. we could lower membership to $35/$40 dollars and everyone would be happy.

The BCA is not the exclusive property of the Board members or the BCA office. This club belongs to the membership and the Board is there to guide and listen to their input. Sometimes the two inputs get cloudy.......but remember, this is your club and throwing up your hands and saying it is out of control, cost too much is self defeating.........get out there and get more members and the cost to everyone goes down.

Buicks have been made for over 100 years, Buicks is the oldest American car brand. The BCA club should have 30,000 members, someone is not doing their job in recruting.

 

 

This old discussion got bumped to the top by a recent post. I joined the BCA long after this discussion and had never read it. I need to do some more reading to try to better understand the issues at that time but it sounds like nearly a decade later, a lot of the same issues seem to still be of interest to people. This post says that at the time (2009) the club had "8,500 members and falling". I am really curious about how many members are in BCA now? What is the budget now? Is it possible to get some data on membership by year for the past 10 years or so? Actual club expenses for the past 10 years or so? I think that an analysis of the trend over time would be interesting. 

[NTX5467]

(I just looked at the last page, this time . . .)

 

Interesting that these discussions never really seem to diminish OR generate different orientations of what is what.  Operating costs increase, so "best use of funds" becomes more important with each passing year.  You can also put "continuous improvement" into the mix too, to hopefully amplify any better ways of doing things.  

 

If there is a concern about future dues increases, then purchase a multi-year membership.  That might give you a better yearly cost.  THEN start saving for the next membership payment in the future.

 

NTX5467

[Bill Stoneberg]

1 hour ago, MCHinson said:

This post says that at the time (2009) the club had "8,500 members and falling". I am really curious about how many members are in BCA now? What is the budget now?

 

The member last month were 6877 members.  We have lost 314 members since the beginning of our fiscal year (July 1, 2017).  Our budget was $ 354,000 income and 348,000 expenses.  Luckily we will hit our income but we won't spend as much as was projected.

 

Our cost per member is right around $50 / year / member.  We are much better financially now then we were in 2009. But Barney is correct in saying that more members are better.

[MCHinson]

NTX5467,

That was not my point at all. As a still relatively new BCA member, I read though it and it sounds like the organization has been basically doing the same thing for nearly a decade with the same discussion over and over and during that time while membership has apparently continued to decline. Lower membership means fewer magazines have to be printed and mailed, which reduces costs, but at some time, continuing this same trend will become unsubstainable. Reading the membership numbers quoted in the old posts sounds like the trend has continued. I was only attempting to get some facts for analysis.

[60FlatTop]

Two Buick owners got ahold of a penny and invented copper wire. I just give my Wife the renewal and tell her to send it, raised it way back the; who'd of thunk.

[MCHinson]

Bill,

 

Thanks, we were typing at the same time. Can you provide a decade or so of membership numbers and income and expense numbers for those same years? Some nice raw data over time makes it a lot easier to assess the past and present and plan for the future.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Matt ,

 

Maybe when I get back from the Denver meet.

 

Bill

[NTX5467]

Matt, I meant no ill will in my comments, just an observation that we tend to hear the same comments about "dues increases" from different members every time a dues increase is hinted at.  This has been happening since I've been in the BCA (which pre-dates the current server of our forum hosts).  The one exception was at the last CO meet when the increase was to fund "The Bugle" in a better manner.  To allow it to continue in the great manner which Pete put it on.  Which was approved by the membership.

 

I suspect the BOD is making good financial decisions for the BCA, as it should.  With declining membership income, some expenses will be relatively constant as others can vary one way or the other.  Be that as it may.

 

NTX5467

[MCHinson]

47 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

Matt, I meant no ill will in my comments, just an observation that we tend to hear the same comments about "dues increases" from different members every time a dues increase is hinted at.  This has been happening since I've been in the BCA (which pre-dates the current server of our forum hosts).  The one exception was at the last CO meet when the increase was to fund "The Bugle" in a better manner.  To allow it to continue in the great manner which Pete put it on.  Which was approved by the membership.

 

I suspect the BOD is making good financial decisions for the BCA, as it should.  With declining membership income, some expenses will be relatively constant as others can vary one way or the other.  Be that as it may.

 

NTX5467

 

From this nearly decade old discussion, it looks like there has not been a dues increase in a long time. Obviously with the club having the highest dues (due primarily to the monthly Bugle publishing schedule) any discussion of an increase in dues would probably be met with resistance just as it obviously was when the dues were first increased to the current rate. I have seen nor heard of any mention of any potential dues increase but by reading the board minutes whenever they are published, it is clear that there are some significant differences of opinion among the board members about the financial operation of the club. I am simply seeking facts to be able to intrepret the board's actions after having read the published minutes of recent board meetings. 

 

Bill's most recent post makes me wonder about the source(s) of BCA income other than member dues. The math makes it clear that there must be some other income somewhere. Based on Bill's budgeted income being met and the amout of dues generated by 6,877 members, obviously there is other income equal to about $1.50 per member annually. ($354,000- $343,850=$10,150) 

[1939_Buick]

5 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

Bill's most recent post makes me wonder about the source(s) of BCA income other than member dues. The math makes it clear that there must be some other income somewhere. Based on Bill's budgeted income being met and the amount of dues generated by 6,877 members, obviously there is other income equal to about $1.50 per member annually. ($354,000- $343,850=$10,150) 

Those of us who do not live in USA pay higher dues.

If you pay for 3 years (as I have done since ~1982) the income will be recorded in that year, but the Bugle expense is over 3 years.

I guess the Bugle has some income from advertising.  But where does that really go? (Been an interesting post on that topic, that needs investigation)

Not just as simple as dividing income by number of members

 

 

[MCHinson]

You are correct. It is not simple to figure out anything from the very limited information that I have been able to find during the last few years that I have been a member of the club. The math was simply comparing the two numbers that I had available to see that there is obviously much more detailed information is needed to judge the finances of the club. I guess that might be part of the reason some members of the board have recently expressed a desire for the financial statements to be published in the Bugle as called for in the club's bylaws. When it is hard to find out any answers to financial questions, you get interested in what else you don't know about the subject. The more you learn, I guess the more you want to know.