Where can we safely drive our cars?

[1957Birdman]

I'm sure all who read the story in the last issue of Antique Automobile of the man and his daughter killed while driving their Model A pickup share my sadness regarding this tragedy. If the story is accurate, they were driving on an interstate highway and were rear-ended at high speed, even though they had a slow moving vehicle sign on the back of the truck. They didn't have a chance.

It got me to thinking about basic rules of thumb for driving our cars safely. For example, my '57 T-Bird is quite capable of keeping up with modern traffic, but the problem is when I have to stop. The original brakes will stop the car, but not as well as a modern Honda, Toyota, etc.. Therefore, I always try to leave plenty of room between myself and the car in front.

Anyway, what in your opinion should the cutoff be for driving on the typical crowded interstate highway such as I-95 between New York and Miami? I'll start the discussion with the opinion that driving on any road where the average speed is 75 MPH (not the posted speed) or higher should be left to the newer cars. Probably anything from the mid-1960's and newer, especially ones that have disk brakes. Older cars should definitely stick to the less heavily traveled roads.

I understand that every situation is different and I am interested to see other opinions. My hope is that we never see another article like the one mentioned above in our club magazine.

[oldcarfudd]

I live in New Jersey. Ten years ago, when I had a Model A, I would occasionally drive it on an Interstate if I needed to cover ground. But not in the rush hour, not at night, and not in bad weather. I much preferred to putter on back roads.

I no longer have a Model A. My cars are all from the brass era. I drive them on AACA/Snappers tours (I had my 1913 Model T on the Kentucky tour written up in the latest magazine), Reliability tours (I drove my 1906 Buick at last year's Chattanooga tour), steam tours and HCCA tours. These tours specialize in back road driving; Interstates are a definite no-no except occasionally for one exit when they're the only way to cross a river. The world looks great at 25-35 mph!

Even so, there's no such thing as no risk. Two years ago on an HCCA tour, I was parked all the way off the driving lane on a back road when a jackass with a cellphone sent me and my one-cylinder Cadillac 30 feet down an embankment. It wasn't the car's fault; I could just as easily have been riding a bicycle or walking a dog. There's no vaccine for stupid!

I drive my old cars frequently, on back roads. I give lots of rides, and have taught several people of all ages to drive a Model T. I never tailgate, and I try always to remember that , if I have to slam on the brakes, there will be two skinny little skid marks in front of whatever I run into. If I had a newer antique, I would still prefer back roads, but I would be more willing to drive faster and on busier roads. After all, I routinely went 65+ mph in my dad's '57 Chevy and, later, in my own '61 VW. But I'd still keep in mind all the improvements in modern car safety that I wouldn't have.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Guest windjamer]

Lew, I share your concern. I also shead a tear on reading the original story,but please dont blame the old car or the inerstate. This happened because of human error and for no other reason. IMHO and only mine I think the driver of the vechicle that hit the model A was distracted or driving ability impaired or maby yacking on a ****** cell phone speeding possably all of the above.

Not to long ago,I followed a van with a woman driver on a 4 lane road. As I pulled along side of her I could see two kids in safty seats in the back. The mother ??? was holding the wheel with her knee as she looked in the mirror and applyed her make-up. Where I a cop I would have charged her with endangering the kids. Go to jail woman go stright to jail. DO NOT pass go.:mad:

[old car fan]

It is the lack of attention,not the old cars i was going to work this am,seen a gal smoking a cig,talking on a cell phone,drinking coffee,thats why bad things happen.Guys are just as guilty,not to be one sided.A slow lane on the highway is intended just for that,slower traffic.All the old cars still need to be driven,otherwise,they may come up with a new law,condeming it.

[Guest Skyking]

It's getting to the point of dangerous driving no matter what car you are in or what road you are on. People don't care anymore. They get behind the wheel and you are in their way. It's only going to get worst until the law makers view driving habits through cameras mounted at various points. If people start getting violations through the mail, things may change. There are many times when I can drive for miles in RI without ever seeing a cop. I witness more people going through red lights and stop signs than ever before. When I'm driving my old or newer cars I pay attention in all directions.

[tbird]

Lew, I'm pretty sure you probably know that last year, just before the CTCI national meet down in Florida, a fully restored '57 Thunderbird was rear ended at high speed by a trailer truck. Three people riding in the Bird were killed. I live in New Hampshire and can tell you the roads are much more user friendly for antique cars. We used to live in Massachusetts where it was quite worrisom to drive antique cars. New Hampshire has been quite a treet for us. However, even in my mid-south New Hampshire location, I still head north when touring.

Dennis Vieira / Auburn, New Hampshire

[1937hd45]

YEAR of manufacture has NOTHING to do with a CUTOFF. You can get a 1928 Model A Ford up to 200+MPH and equiped with good disk brakes and a drag shoot if need be. Just because a car looks old doesn't make it a slug.

[1957Birdman]

Dennis, You're right, I knew about the accident with the '57 T-Bird in Florida. In my opinion the driver of the truck should have been charged with negilgent homicide. For him to not see a yellow car and to clip it (causing it to flip) the way he did is more than a little hard to believe.

Obviously, all of our lives we take risks of one sort or another. A lot of people aren't getting the H1N1 Flu shot because of fear of complications. There is no driving that is risk free. It sounds like you are in a place where you can do some good cruising with minimal risk. I swallow hard every time I drive on the Capital Beltway because of all the nuts that I see on the road. I keep to the right and try to give myself plenty of stopping distance. My biggest concern is people weaving in and out of lanes and whether they would catch the back of my car as they go by. At least I have the capability of keeping up with traffic. I know one thing, if I owned a car from the early thirties it would be driven on local roads only.

[Guest Earl]

I almost got run over by the Highway patrol back in the late 70's in my 1946 Ford Pickup. It was after dark and he came flying over a hill going about 100 I would guess. I just drove that old Ford down into the ditch to keep from getting hit. Then that jerk did a U-turn and came back and made me go through a sobriety test! I was so shook up I couldn't get the truck started. I was about 17 then. Then he decided I must have drugs in the truck and so he started tearing the truck apart looking. Well, I had a jar full of spare bulbs under the seat and it was broken. I tried to tell him, but he reached beside the gas tank and got a nasty cut from the glass. Never did find out what he going going so fast for on a road that's posted 45. That truck would only go 38 mph and was a piece of junk. You could pull tree stumps with it though. I finally got it started and got it back up out of the ditch after that guy left. He was mad about the blood on his shirt and left in a rush and didn't bother to see if I could get out of there. It's a wonder I didn't roll the pickup over doing what I did, but it still would have been better than getting hit like that.... Would have been quite a lawsuit though wouldn't it? I had four tail lights on that thing so you could see it. It also had factory turn signals!

[1957Birdman]

1937hd45, point taken. I was making the assumption that we were talking about stock cars here, especially since that is what the club is all about. We all know our cars and their capabilities, at least most of us anyway. As Dirty Harry once said, "A man's got to know his limitations." The same thing applies to our cars as well.

[Guest mercman86]

I usually stick to side roads. I dont really have to drive on the interstate, but if i do i sitck to the far right and keep it around 60-65 so i dont run off the road by a semi doing 80. Even on local roads, the yuppies in my area dont like the fact that my 44 year old stick shift 6 cylinder Ranchero dosent accelerate as fast as their Lexus does. If theyre behind me at a red light i can see them in the mirror making faces because there gonna be stuck behind this stinky old car. As soon as the light turns green, they cut others off just to get around me. I change gears as fast as i can, but it seems its never fast enough! When I drive a Model A... forget about it, they blow me off like im standing still! I take it easy, and make sure i give myself lots of room for braking whenever I drive an antique. To me, you dont drive an antique just to hurry from point a to b, you drive just to enjoy the ride. Even if its only puttin around town!

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

I grew up in MD, near I-70 where the folks in the Model A were killed.

When I read about the tragedy in Baltimore Sunpaper, I was horrified to think about someone trying to drive on I-70 in a vehicle like a Model A Ford...

It's been my experience over the last 20 years or so, driving back & forth between NE Penna and my folks' home in Howard County, MD, mostly on I-81, I-83, and I-70, that the average driving speed seems to run 10 to 20 mph in excess of the posted limit.

So, for I-70 West of the Beltway, posted 65 mph becomes 75 to 85 mph.

And motorists have far more distractions these days, between cel-phones, GPS, etc...

It strikes me as way too risky to venture forth on a heavily travelled Interstate in any vehicle not capable of keeping-up with traffic, posted legal limit not withstanding.

I'm becoming uncomfortable driving my '61 Rambler on I-81 between Scranton & Wilkes-Barre; the car starts sounding unhappy over 60 MPH... average speed seems to be 75-80 MPH... (posted limit is 55)... the WPA roads are looking much more attractive.

That said, I did drive the Rambler home to Scranton from Chicago this August, interstates all the way, and did fine... there were some anxious moments in rush-hour traffic getting out of Chicagoland... but for the most part, stayed in the right-lane of I-80, observing the speed limit, and letting the rest of the world roll on by.

I have seen the occasional Model A chugging up I-81 around here... the notion still scares me.

[keiser31]

We can drive them safely anywhere we want. We just have to be alert and aware of the "idiots wrapped in morons" who will take a life to get wherever they are going in such a hurry.

[charlier]

Personally, I think it is not only a matter of "Where" we can safely drive our cars but also "When".

For the last few years I have noticed that where I live in Eastern Pennsylvania more and more Antique and classic car owners are "exercising" their vehicles EARLY on a Sunday morning. I too have been doing this for the last few years myself. Just before Sunrise I take at least one of my vehicles out on a 30 mile loop. At that time of the day there are not many vehicles on the 4 lane limited access highway I use.

This road is posted at 65mph but at that time of day I can drive 55mph since hardly anyone is one the road with me.

Usually by 8:30 or 9 o'clock the distracted drivers are out and about and I have my vehicles back home by then.

It is sad that people have to be concerned about situations like this but that is the price we pay if we want to drive our vehicles on the public roads with so many other distracted, careless and inexperienced drivers.

[R Walling]

I live in Ma. and drive a 38 Buick that looks like you just took it out from under a maple tree where it sat for 30 years. I have found that the cars next to me at a light do not pass me by, but they like to look in wonder that it still runs. At an intersection where I am taking a left turn, they usually wait until made my turn before going into the intersection.

On the highway, I do just the speed limit, not that I am afraid of getting a ticket, but its fun. Cars usually slow down as they pass and look in admiration before hitting the gas.

[LINC400]

I was driving my 1979 Mark V home on a Fri eve. when an uninsured idiot rear ended and totaled it. It did not matter that it has no problems keeping up with modern traffic accelerating, braking, handling, top speed etc. It was stopped in traffic when it was hit. It could just as easily have been my daily driver Buick that I was driving that day as well. It does not matter around here what roads or when you drive. It is the other idiots on cell phones, eating, putting on makeup, looking at GPS or files on the seat etc. that are the problem.

Also old cars used to get extra respect on the street. People would allow more room for braking and maneuvering. Now they just want you out of the way, assuming your old car must be slow even if it is a Hemi 'Cuda. It's old. It can't be fast or any good. They also think nothing of cutting off a 5,000 lb. Lincoln and then slamming on the brakes in their Honda or Focus. Fortunately the Lincoln has very good brakes. Some old cars don't.

[Guest billybird]

LINC400: Amen and Amen! In addition to all that you said; people on the road now seem to be eaten up with the "ME syndrome" "ME first" Where I'M going is more important than where you are going" I can't count the times I've had someone pull out in front of me and I immediately look in the rearview and don't see a car within two miles. It's pretty bad when people can't even wait one second! At a red light one day, someone blew the horn at me before I could even get my foot from the brake to the gas and let the clutch take hold. I fully understand road rage. Many times I could have been a participant

[Guest Earl]

I had a guy a few weeks ago do that to me when I was in my UPS truck going back in for the night. He was blowing his horn before the light was all the way green! I set the parking brake and went back to the guy to apologize for not having his package and explained that he would have to go to the UPS center to get his package as it must be with a different driver as my truck was empty. He could follow me in if he wanted to. His wife wanted to crawl under the seat of the car. I'm a big guy, so he thanked me for my time. Meanwhile, he sat through another light or two. I doubt he will do that again for a long time. I totally understand being in a rush, especially with my job and all, but does all of that really get you there that much faster?

[Dynaflash8]

Certainly not in Florida where all the cross country east-west highways except I-4 are 60-65 mph two lane roads filled with tractor trailer trucks. And I-4 is a death-trap road for new cars! Not every old car collector can live in Virginia's Northern Neck, and I'm too old to move back there.

[Guest windjamer]

:mad: I agree with all of the previous comments with one exception. Unless there is a law I dont know about that says no model a fords on this road that Father and daughter had just as much right on that road as any vechicle.It is the responsiabilty of every driver regardless of the vechicle to have that vechicle under control. How about our PA.Amish with ther horse drawn buggys? should we tell them they cant drive on the road? Blame them if they are involved in an accident? Yes there are roads MARKED where they can not take there buggys, but I dont think the highway in question had a sign no old cars. The driver of that vechicle will live with what he caused for the rest of his life,hopefully part of that life will be behind bars. Now hide my soap box.:mad:

[Guest Skyking]

I had a guy a few weeks ago do that to me when I was in my UPS truck going back in for the night. He was blowing his horn before the light was all the way green! I set the parking brake and went back to the guy to apologize for not having his package and explained that he would have to go to the UPS center to get his package as it must be with a different driver as my truck was empty. He could follow me in if he wanted to. His wife wanted to crawl under the seat of the car. I'm a big guy, so he thanked me for my time. Meanwhile, he sat through another light or two. I doubt he will do that again for a long time. I totally understand being in a rush, especially with my job and all, but does all of that really get you there that much faster?

Good story Earl...........It reminds me of the day I had this girl tailgating me for a few miles. I stopped at the next red light, got out of my truck, opened the tailgate and told her to drive right up into the pickup bed. .............. She stayed off my tail after that!

[tbirdman]

Two years ago I got hit in my 64 T-Bird stopped waiting to turn out of the parking lot. I bet the lady was on a cell phone, but she never admitted anything. I drive my 32 Packard on al the highways at 50-55, but things are slower out in Oregon. I just stay in the right lane.

[MCHinson]

My two cents worth... Maybe I am lucky to live in Southeastern North Carolina. With the exception of the Interstates, I can drive my Model A Ford about anywhere that I might want to. We have sufficient streets and roads that enable me to drive at 55 mph in relative safety.

There will always be traffic crashes. There will always be inconsiderate drivers. There will always be distratcted drivers.

As long as I use good defensive driving techniques, my chance of being involved in a traffic crash is relatively low. It can happen, but it is not something for me to worry about. I am much more likely to be involved in a traffic crash in my unmarked police car, which I drive 5 days a week, than I am in my Model A Ford.

They were made to be driven, I intend to keep driving!

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

Mathew,

I hear you loud and clear, and agree that our vehicles were made to be driven...

I get my greatest joy from this hobby from driving my cars, whether it's my "cream-puff" Rambler, or one of my tired jalopies.

I guess we need to use our own good judgement when deciding which route to take, giving honest consideration to the vehicle in question, its limitations (acceleration, cruising speed, braking, safety lighting, "crash protection", etc.), and the traffic volume / driving habits in the given vicinity.

In my own case, most of my "antique driving" takes place between and around two modest urban areas - Wilkes-Barre (pop. 35,000) and Scranton (pop. 85,000) PA. There are at least three parallel routes between the two cities, ranging from I-81, to a 1950's state highway, to the "milk route" through all the little burgs in between.

I-81 is a nasty piece of highway around here: just two-lanes each way, and over-crowded... lots of through-traffic from Canada & New England, tractor-trailers and other folks in a big hurry, median speed running around 75 mph (posted limit is 55). North of Scranton and south of Wilkes-Barre, things ease-up a bit in terms of volume, but the posted limit goes to 65, and the average speed increases to about 80 mph.

If traffic is light, I will consider taking the '41 De Soto on the interstate, but I'm limited to a max cruising speed of 60 mph, and the OEM safety lighting in the rear is marginal (small ruby glass lenses). I have fought it out with rush-hour traffic, but it's just not fun. (And that's why I took the De Soto in the first-place, wasn't it ?)

I am in the process of getting a Model A ('28 Special Coupe)... I will probably get it out on the interstate or Turnpike extension at least once, just to "stretch its legs", but I plan on sticking to the WPA roads & milk routes with that car.

It seems like a deathwish to take a vehicle like that out on the Interstate in high-volume, high-speed traffic.

An empty highway might be another story...

I enjoy the ride more when I don't have double-semis screaming down on me from 80 mph...

Edited November 21, 2009 by DeSoto Frank (see edit history)

[Guest Skyking]

In this mornings paper, (auto-section - Test Drive) they were advertising a 2010 Mazdaspeed3. It features an intercooled tubocharged engine, claiming 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. Top speed 153...........................Why is the government allowing this from manufacturers when the posted speed limits are 65, at least in my neck of the woods.............are we becoming our own enemy?

Weren't the big 3 controled in the late 60's and early 70's..........?

One has to wonder.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

"...are we becoming our own enemy? "

Always have been.

The great cartoonist Walt Kelly ( "Pogo" ) put it simply:

"We have met the enemy and they is us."

" In this mornings paper, (auto-section - Test Drive) they were advertising a 2010 Mazdaspeed3. It features an intercooled tubocharged engine, claiming 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. Top speed 153...........................Why is the government allowing this from manufacturers when the posted speed limits are 65, at least in my neck of the woods. "

That's the great paradox of "American Democracy" - our "right" or "privilege" to have such toys.

Trouble is folks easily & quickly forget that along with "rights" and "privileges" come great RESPONSIBILITY...

Ingore "Responsibility" and you will have to face the CONSEQUENCES.

"RESPONSIBILITY" and "CONSEQUENCES" are two concepts severly lacking in today's Western culture.

[Guest Skyking]

Well stated Frank.............

[Jim Bollman]

I also enjoy driving my cars and luckily have many roads that I can safely do that. My Crosleys are a bit on the small side for lots of driving so I try to have at least one larger vehicle for longer drives I went from a 58 Willys FC170 Truck to a 66 Ranchero. The FC was a bit much for driving regular because of the stiff 4WD 1 ton suspension, the 66 turned out to be to modern, comfortable but not enough old car feel. Now I have bought a 1950 F1 Ford 1/2 ton pickup, I hope that is the right compromise for comfort and old car feel.

We are never completely safe even in our modern vehicles so we just have to use some common sense and have fun. The miles we drive our old cars is small in comparison to our total miles traveled so our exposure is lower.

[Guest quadfins]

"...are we becoming our own enemy? "

" In this mornings paper, (auto-section - Test Drive) they were advertising a 2010 Mazdaspeed3. It features an intercooled tubocharged engine, claiming 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. Top speed 153

I agree completely with the previous comments and observances. The horror stories I could relate would only be repetitions...

I willonly state another observance...

We have the right to purchase and drive these modern road rockets, but we don't have to prove that we have the level of responsiblility to operate them in the presence of other drivers. That is where the problem lies, I think. The drivers of such vehicles have an overinflated opinion of their own driving ablilities, and lack basic ourtesy and consideration for others on the road.

But then, even on this very forum, we read the rants of those who don't want 'da Gob'ment" to intrude and regulate our lives.

Can't have it both ways, Bubba...

rant over, flame-proofing in place.

[Guest Skyking]

But then, even on this very forum, we read the rants of those who don't want 'da Gob'ment" to intrude and regulate our lives.

Can't have it both ways, Bubba...

This isn't gov. intrusion................they made the speed limit rule, not the car manufacturers. I'd prefer the speed limit returned to 55 for two reasons..........save fuel & lives.

Maybe I'm different. When I plan on going somewhere, I leave early and am always on time. If I tell someone I'll pick them up at 5, I'm there..........not a minute before or a minute late...............why can't others? What's the hurry 100% of the time...........???

People's lives are at stake!

Edited November 21, 2009 by Skyking
spel (see edit history)

[Guest sdzaiser]

I have two old cars - a 66 Imperial and a 79 MG Midget. The Chrysler, I drive like I drive my parents' modern cars. I've been hit before in it, denting the modern car and leaving mine unscratched. I feel very safe. The car will do 100 mph all day and the breaks, though drums would stop a tractor trailer.

The Midget though is a different story. It's only thirty years old, but much like a prewar car, I don't feel very comfortable at much over 55 or 60 and drive accordingly. It has a four speed without overdrive. I feel like, if just about anything hit me, they might not even notice.

When I need to go somewhere in the Midget, I either print google maps directions for walking, which will give you directions to stay off the four lanes, or tell the GPS to avoid highways. That said, I have a couple of times had to keep up with 75 mile an hour traffic in the MG. It was scary as hell and I'd prefer never to do it again.