Roadster90 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Should not have waited till the last minute to ask this question .Getting ready to do the FULL ATF/convertor (the F 14 procedure) fluid change. I have bee using the high mileage ATF 50,000 miles. Is it appropriate to to go back to conventional / normal ATF please?(reason for the switch is bacisallly cost....the darn high mileage ATF is $5.00 a quart or $50.00 for the fluid change where as Advance Brand ATF is 11.99 a gallon or $36.00. The car has 130,000 miles on the clock). Replies / opinions appreciated, and thanks for reading,Nic(correction: Advance ATF cost $11.19 gallon or $33.57) Edited November 7, 2009 by nic walker mistake in pricing :( (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Telco Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I see no reason why not, the only issue that I'd see would be if you were planning to use a synthetic trans fluid. I came here from the full size Chevy truck world, and from there found that GM RWD transmissions don't much care for synthetic fluid. No idea if the FWDs like it. Another way of looking at the cost though, the difference is 16 bucks. If the fluid you were using was working for you, does 16 bucks really make that much of a difference on a yearly type service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfair Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I would never recommend any other fluid but Dexron for your transmission. No synthetic, no universal, no long life, etc. When DexronVI is the recommended refill and one of the best for your transmission, why go with anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) After all my transmission problems last spring (Jasper rebuilt) (lets not go into that) my transmission man and others say Dextron III (Yes number 3) that is what is in your owners manual. Nothing else, stay away from 6 which is synthetic. No universal fluid. The only place I could find 3 was on Amazon. You can also locate it on ebay last time I looked. Edited November 8, 2009 by CHAS1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfair Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Contacted Petro Canada engineering, personally, who had a major hand in Dexron VI development. As a requirement by GM, it was to be backwards compatible to all previous fills. That condition was met.Researched a GM tech bulletin...stated that it was compatable for all GM Hydramatics back to 1949.Have used it with no problems, so what can I say? (specifically in 4t60's)Dexron III will surely be harder and harder to obtain with VI being the replacement.As far as specifications go, VI blows III out of the water in all areas.So, a person is free to fill with what they determine to fit the needs of their transmission, but probably in the future, there will be no option between III and VI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) I have 3 cases of Dexron III for my stash. After 5 transmissions last spring I am not looking for problems with my existing transmission. If would be a roll of the dice to change an older transmission over to Dexron VI in my opinion. (Why look for trouble)Amazon is the only place I could find it after checking all local sources. Also check ebay. Their was some Penzoil Dexron III ATF last time I looked.I do not want to rehash that Jasper Transmission mess BUT I proved to their senior management they were using OLD internal plunger seals that were not compatable with Dexron VI. Although they approved it.One picture is worth a thousand words. When they saw the picture 's of the swolen seals they sent me a 100% refund. Edited November 8, 2009 by CHAS1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard D Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) I would probably not use Advance Auto ATF under any circumstances unless I knew who made it and was sure it was GM approved. Same with my engine oil, I have had good luck with Penzoil so I will stick with them instead of using a generic store brand. Even if it makes no difference I feel better! Plus it is what, a buck a quart more? Edited November 9, 2009 by Richard D (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 At the present time, the only "approved" atf for GM vehicles is Dexron VI. Licenses for Dexron III have expired from GM, just as the Ford Type F license expired from Ford years ago. An expired "liscense" does not mean the fluid is not still being built, just that it will meet the particular brand's "version" of the prior liscened formulation, which might be better than the OEM-supplied item anyway.Dex VI is backwards compatible just as Dex III was backward compatible for prior Dexron versions and Type A. Dex VI is part-synthetic, not full synthetic. Same with the latest Mopar atf. Dex VI will last much longer than Dex III.Dex III IS still available, but now branded as something of a Universal atf, but if you read the back of the bottle, you'll find that Dex III is the main spec that fluid is supposed to meet. Castrol and others have it and WalMart sells it. KEY is to read the bottle's description of what's in it!The only thing the "50,000 Mile" fluid would have might be a tad more detergent additive plus a "seal softener" additive . . . both of which can be added to ANY fluid that is not marketed as "50,000+ mile fluid). If this particular fluid was stopping leaks, if you went back to normal fluid and some seeps started, then a bottle of additive should fix it. In reality, though, if the fluid is changed reasonably often and the trans is not been continually overheated, the internal seals and such should be in reasonably good condition . . . remember that "transmission flush" does not always mean the internal filters are changed when that happens, only "flushed", unless you specify that it be changed after the flush treatment is complete. Make sure, also, that the flush machine operator is experienced and the machine will automatically replenish the trans with fresh fluid as the old fluid is removed! Some machines require active operator monitoring and that monitoring is to ensure that the front pump does not want for fluid . . . which can cause more problems than the flush was supposed to prevent.Look around, you can find plenty of fluid for what you need. Dex III would be a default fluid, if that's what you want, just expect to have to read the back of the bottle to make sure that's the primary spec the newly-labeled fluid is meeting.Enjoy!NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 Thanks to all for your replies - greatly appreciated .I have a quart of Advances ATF in front of me. he label in capital letters is "DEX III / M"Also fron lable reads: "Formulated for older model Ford and General Motors vehicles"."Suitable for transmissions requiring DEXRON - III and MERCON automatic transmission fluid""Compare to Castrol"There are not any "speccifications" per say on the back label, just a repeat of the front label.I just changed the fluid, filter, and used Black RTV for the gasket and everthing is dry after 3 to 400 miles. The quart bottle readings seem to fall in line with NTX5467 and Charlie's comments, and is almost 1/2 the cost of the "High Mileage" name brands. ****Since a "F14 flush" requires about 12 quarts, I was thinking about maybe using 8 quarts of the Advance ATF, and 4 quarts of one of the Name Brand High Mileage ATF just to have a little bit of the seal softener. Any comments on mixing the two please????Thanks,Nic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Nic,Wish you luck. You remember the dozen posts I had last spring when my transmission failed and had 5 Jasper units fail in a row on my 1989 Riviera. Thankfully I got a 100% refund. All my posts were removed at my requests because I was involved in a lawsuit. Jasper made a mistake by recommending VI in transnissions where plungers would swell up. Therefore I now have plenty of III for future service requirements. That is what in the owners manual and that is what I am using. GM may now recommend VI BUT YOU are the one that MAY have to deal with the problems. Others have changed to VI without a problem but I lost nearly the entire summer with my car.The costs to properly service a transmission is MOUSE NUTS compared to the costs to replace it.I was in for $2500 for Jasper. PLus paid another $2300 to get a independent rebuilder to get me back on the road while I waited refund check from Jasper. I also had my 1999 Riviera serviced with III as stated in the owners manual. Good LuckCharlie Edited November 10, 2009 by CHAS1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfair Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Nic, Jasper made a mistake by recommedding VI in transnissions where plungers would swell up. Good LuckCharlieCHAS1, now you have my curiosity piqued. Do you know if the swelling was a result of a non-oem replacement part re-acting with Dexron VI or was it a direct result of Dexron VI on original parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes. Their are 2 plunger seals that were not compatable with VI. Apparantly Jasper's supplier was using very old stock. Not sure what they did within their orgnization to correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Problem is that you do not know if the issue is because:1) III was the most current when the book was printedor2) It really needs III and not something elseFor example a Teves and DOT 5 fluid do not go well together, best to stick with DOT 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Problem is that you do not know if the issue is because:1) III was the most current when the book was printedor2) It really needs III and not something elseFor example a Teves and DOT 5 fluid do not go well together, best to stick with DOT 3.Well, DOT 5 brake fluid is silicon based, and should NEVER be used in our braking systems - Teves or otherwise. OTOH, DOT 4 is an upgrade to DOT 3. We just did the brake fluid in my Reatta and it now has DOT 4 in it. (ATE brand - just like the ABS. A better example is motor oil. Our books spec SG grade oil. But you would be hard pressed to find any. Everything at the car parts store is SL or SM grade. And last time I paid any attention, some of the "name brand" oil was still SL, and some of the "el-cheapo rock gut" was up to SM... Gotta look at those bottles carefully! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 All I know is I am using III As recommended by the man who built the transmission. May even grab another case of III for my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike_s Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) FWIW. It Seems that although GM say's VI is fully back compatable with III, there are some GM MANUAL transmissions which originally called for dexron III, for which gm is now recommending GM 88861800 - GM Manual Transmission & Transfer Case Fluid NOT Dexron VILS1GTO.com Forums - Dexron III vs. Dexron VI?Chas if you talk to your trans man, could you ask(edit) him what he's using these days or planning to use when dexron III labled fluids are no longer available. For instance, it looks like what was Chevron's Dexron III might now be Chevron MD-3. Edited November 11, 2009 by Mike_s spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfair Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 compatable for all GM Hydramatics back to 1949..The clue here is "Hydramatics" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfair Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Yes. Their are 2 plunger seals that were not compatable with VI. Apparantly Jasper's supplier was using very old stock. Not sure what they did within their orgnization to correct.Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) FWIW. It Seems that although GM say's VI is fully back compatable with III, there are some GM MANUAL transmissions which originally called for dexron III, for which gm is now recommending GM 88861800 - GM Manual Transmission & Transfer Case Fluid NOT Dexron VILS1GTO.com Forums - Dexron III vs. Dexron VI?Chas if you talk to your trans man, could you ask(edit) him what he's using these days or planning to use when dexron III labled fluids are no longer available. For instance, it looks like what was Chevron's Dexron III might now be Chevron MD-3.My transmission man was a OLD TIMER who owns a AAMCO franchise and is about ready to retire. He wants to service the transmission in the Spring of 2010.Perhaps AAMCO has a unlimited supply of III? I will be chatting with him at that time. I am Considering the Lifetime warranty. All I can say is he flipped out when he opened up the Jasper rebuilt and saw the swolen seals. He called me up and told me to come over with my camera. Pictures were FEDEX to CEO of Jasper and shortly after that I received a 100% refund. I am sure that Jasper will now be using the latest products available for rebuilts. At least in the 440T4. Their was a Independent rebuilder on another board called Transman who was very helpful and prefers III over VI for these transmissions. GM can recommend anything they think is suitable and 99.9% of the time it may work BUT you may be the one where it does not. Charlie Edited November 11, 2009 by CHAS1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I would bet the Jasper rebuilder failed to get all the cleaning solvent out of the transmission during the rebuilding process causing the rubber parts to swell. The solvent will stay in nooks and crannies if care is not taken to blow it out with air. The swelling probably occurred before the fluid was added to the transmission. I have used Dextron IV in my Reatta transmission for almost 3 years now with no problems. I'm not recommending IV over III. I would have used III if it had been available at my friend's parts store. He told me either one should work fine.There is also the possibility that Jasper used a cheap seal with rubber that didn't meet factory specs to save money and they had a reaction to Dex IV. (I'm not saying they did... I'm just saying they could have.) Sometimes high volume rebuilders buy items like that in bulk from the lowest bidder to save money without considering the consequences.My transmission man was a OLD TIMER who owns a AAMCO franchise and is about ready to retire. He wants to service the transmission in the Spring of 2010.Perhaps AAMCO has a unlimited supply of III? I will be chatting with him at that time. I am Considering the Lifetime warranty. All I can say is he flipped out when he opened up the Jasper rebuilt and saw the swolen seals. He called me up and told me to come over with my camera. Pictures were FEDEX to CEO of Jasper and shortly after that I received a 100% refund. I am sure that Jasper will now be using the latest products available for rebuilts. At least in the 440T4. Their was a Independent rebuilder on another board called Transman who was very helpful and prefers III over VI for these transmissions. GM can recommend anything they think is suitable and 99.9% of the time it may work BUT you may be the one where it does not. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) I would bet the Jasper rebuilder failed to get all the cleaning solvent out of the transmission during the rebuilding process causing the rubber parts to swell. The solvent will stay in nooks and crannies if care is not taken to blow it out with air. The swelling probably occurred before the fluid was added to the transmission. I have used Dextron IV in my Reatta transmission for almost 3 years now with no problems. I'm not recommending IV over III. I would have used III if it had been available at my friend's parts store. He told me either one should work fine.There is also the possibility that Jasper used a cheap seal with rubber that didn't meet factory specs to save money and they had a reaction to Dex IV. (I'm not saying they did... I'm just saying they could have.) Sometimes high volume rebuilders buy items like that in bulk from the lowest bidder to save money without considering the consequences Lots of "Could have's". BUT I had to deal with FIVE transmissions and the threat of a lawsuit to get my money back and lay out additional money to get it back on the road,with no guarantee of a refund. Thanks,I will stay with IIII know lots of other people who changed to VI without a problem. Edited November 11, 2009 by CHAS1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If I were in your shoes I would have done the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfair Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Chas1: Do not blame you. I followed your posts and marveled at the patience you displayed. Also, Transman knows his stuff! Dexron III works and you know it does.But, and there is always a but, I think that Ronnie's explanation makes the most logical sense. I believe that the truth is somewhere in there. Will we ever find out? Hmmm, sure would like to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 In closing the ironic part is I have my original transmission back in the car now. In the cycle of 5 transmissions being rebuilt and shipped back and forth between Jasper indiana and Fairless Hills Pa. I now have my original transmission back in the car. Most of all is it shifts great. I have between now and next August to decide on the Lifetime warranty. Taking into consideration my age I may pass on the Lifetime warranty.Costs is $700.Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Yours or theirs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike_s Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) FWIW After some digging on the web it appears Allison recommended Dexron III in some of it's light truck transmissions prior to 2006 for which they now do NOT recommend Dexron VI as it has some hardening issues with VITON seals. For those transmissions it looks like Allision recommends an ATF which meets Allisions TES-389 standard which seems to be a Dexron 3 equivlant. ATF fluid options: detailed information - Diesel Place Edited November 13, 2009 by Mike_s removed extra "on" and spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handmedownreatta Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 dextron 6?was there a 4 and 5?just wondering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Try WikopediaIIE AND III than VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike_s Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I think IIIh was the last III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handmedownreatta Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 oh ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Never really thought about it (other than ATF is about 20 wt and makes a good hand cleaner). blue gallon jug I get at the mart by the walle says SuperTech: Dextron III/Mercon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89REATTAJIM Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Congrats on 8k+ posts. Does this change your "Many Carpets" status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Hadn't noticed. Still have one too many pets and refuse to become attached to the Gold Fiero, I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard D Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Padgett, speaking of the gold Fiero.... I will send you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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