Sign in to follow this  
Frenchy32

Lincoln Zephyr starter pictures needed

Recommended Posts

Would someone post pictures of early and late starters. I know that there is a difference between certain years. Which will fit in early oil pan vs later oil pan. The difference on the early oil pan is the depth of the colar at the rear of the pan to accept a certain starter. The later oil pan have less depth which can make the difference on which starter you are going to use.

Thanks

Frenchy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lincolns used Ford starters up until '47. The '47-'48 starters had a longer out put shaft and used a "new" starter" drive which was smaller in diameter. The starter cover on the '47-'48 oil pans were longer to accomodater the extra length. It does get a bit more complicated. The ( flexible) flywheels used on the '47-'48 cars would not clear the starter drive on the regular Ford starter so they are unique. The (flexible) flywheels used on the '42 and '46 cars were uncut slightly to clear the regular Ford starter drive. The solid flywheels used on the '41 and older engines cannot be used on the '42 to '48 engines due to the protruding hub on the '42 to '48 crankshafts. Early oil pans can be used with the late style starter by cutting off the end cap of the starter drive housing and installing an extension housing, a Hersey's Chocolate syrup can is a perfect fit ( painted black of course).

Here's a pic of the 5EL starter used on the '47-'48 V12. It's the one in the foreground the other is a starter used on a flathead V8 lincoln and use the same drive. The "balanced " design of the drive was supposed to give a more "pleasing" sound to the starter.

post-31684-143138127741_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The "balanced " design of the drive was supposed to give a more "pleasing" sound to the starter.

Just reading that brought a smile to my face..... and though I've never thought of it specifically, I guess I do find it pleasing everytime my lincoln starts up...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peecher I appreciate you helping me by posting this picture. On my 1948 Block I use the early flywheel and had the end of the flywheel turned down for it to fit over the end of the crankshaft as well as the inside of the flywheel. So I use the starter at the top. The problem I am having now is at times the starter is getting hung up on the flywheel so I have to loosen up the starter and than put it back in place for it to turn over and start the motor.

Thanks

Frenchy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Starters in flat head Fords and Lincoln V-12's sometimes jammed and would make the engine seem as though it was seized. The problem could be alleviated as you describe, Frenchy, or sometimes you could rock the car back and forth while in high gear and the starter would break loose. There is supposed to be a small bracket that connects the forward end of the starter to the crankcase - the jamming problem may be a result of the bracket being missing and allowing the startef to flex.

Norm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Norm

I do have the small bracket at the front of the starter to help support it as it is a heavy piece. I have tried to rock the car back and forth with no luck. Not a big deal just that you have to remove the starter a bit and re install it and everything is ok.

Frenchy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

those starters in the photo have the same, prewar style bendix! not the late 48 longer recoil

design..look..they are the same..with different endplate..and maybe internals..but recheck

your stuff Mr Peecher... I dont have one handy to photo..but I can..shaft and bendix are same

Hey Phil, get the camera out..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff, the bendix springs are very similar for both the Ford and 5EH drives but are slightly different and do have different p/ns.

Frenchy, Are you trying to use a '47-'48 starter with the solid flywheel? Not sure if the crankshaft flange on the post-war crank would locate the ring gear on the solid flywheel the same as the pre-war crank? If the flange on the crank is in the same location as the pre-war crank the regular Ford starter should work for your set up. Just guessing but if there is some mis-match as far as locating the starter drive to the ring gear, a "shim" between the starter and oil pan mount might be in order to correct any overtravel of the starter drive?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frenchy, Here's a pic of the 2 starters used on the 12's.The one at the top is the regular Ford used on cars up to early '47. The lower one is the 5EH used on late '47-'48 cars. As you can see the out put shaft is a little longer on the 5EH starter. note: The "ridge" at the rear of the engaging gear on the regular Ford starter will interfer with the area behind the ring gear on the later '47-'48 flexible flywheel. You shouldn't have this problem with the solid flywheel.

post-31684-143138128206_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are a few pictures of my starter and another starter to be use in one of the motor I am building for a customer. The starter with the chrome metal band at the top is the one from my motor. You can see that the only difference I can see is that from the gear to the collar there is a variable of 1/4 inch to close to the flywheel the other starter gear is about 1/4 futher out. This is possibly my problem with the gear been to close to the flywheel. You can also see a picture of the small bracket that need to be use to support the starter at the front.

Thanks

Frenchy

post-60218-143138128723_thumb.jpg

post-60218-143138128725_thumb.jpg

post-60218-143138128727_thumb.jpg

post-60218-143138128729_thumb.jpg

post-60218-14313812873_thumb.jpg

post-60218-143138128732_thumb.jpg

post-60218-143138128734_thumb.jpg

Edited by toyopet (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frenchy, the starter drive on the starter for your engine does not look right? It is not only closer to the flywheel but it doesn't look like it has any guide acme threads for the engaging gear? That starter drive might be the problem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peecher

Under the gear on my starter there is a spiral like the other one which you cannot see. But I was concern about how close it is to the flywheel otherwise the other starter has more spacing than mine has.

Thanks

Frenchy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did some checking and evidently you have the so-called "improved" original style starter drive used on Fords. I just took a look at another rebuilt starter I have for a friends engine and it too has this new style drive. I haven't tried this starter on his engine yet so I can't report if it works ok. I wonder if the short "throw/travel" of the gear might be causing it to jam? A rebuilt 12 is pretty stiff. Did you try the other starter on your engine?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peecher

I did not try the other starter yet but I am planning to buy a new starter for my motor. That is what I tought my problem is the short distance from the gear to the edge of the flywheel causing it to jam. Hope this will help anyone trying to fit a starter like the pictures I have displayed.

Thanks

Frenchy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peecher is it possible to change only the end of the shaft like the other style without having to change the entire starter I should be able to modify this one what do you think.

Frenchy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IT MUST BE, CAUS PEECH HAS BOTH STYLE MOTORS IN FIRST PIC, BOTH WITH MODERN REPLACEMENT OLD STYLE..ON BOTH .. CHK GREEN BOOK, SEE IF ARMATURE IS DIFFERENT, I BET IT IS LONGER

ORIGINAL BENDIX USED RECOIL SPRING AS A "CUSHION" AT THE END OF GEAR TRAVEL..

5EH STYLE HAD MODERN ERA STYLE SPRING TENSION TO RETURN GEAR TO IDLE POSTION..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frenchy, Yes, you should be able to change the drive unit. The "improved" drive is a replacement for the original Ford. The 5EH starter does have a longer armature/output shaft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I decided to drill a small hole at the bottom of the oil pan directly in line with the started drive gear this way next time the starter wants to hang up on me all I have to do is to release the gear with a screw driver and put a rubber plug to cover up the hole made. I will be looking for an other starter that will work better but for now this would be an easy fix.

Thanks

Frenchy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will have to look for a Lincoln style starter which is a bit longer than the one I have. I figure in the mean time this should work.

Frenchy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this