Looking for info re Lesabre Limited Collector's Edition

[LINC400]

Some details:

of 172,122 Electra's built in 1972, which include base models, custom models, and Limited models, 58% had cloth, 42 % vinyl - the breakdown as one would expect had a higher percentage of vinyl in the base and custom models than the Limited. I would assume that that number stayed somewhat consistant throughout the 70's, maybe leaning more toward cloth into the middle to later 70's as tastes changed.

Cloth seats alone do not make a plush interior. You could get cloth seats in a Pinto. I do not consider them plush. I would agree that the Electra interiors you showed from 75-76? with the consoles are plush. I would like to know how many of those were made. That is the interior I say only a handful of were made.

[Guest my3buicks]

That interior on the 75/76 that you refer to was the standard interior in the Park Avenues, all them had it, the console part was an option and one not usually found in big cars of any make.

So I give you some statistics and you change your tune, now it's cloth seats alone don't make it plush.(which I agree when looking at the green Lincolns spartan interior) I understand completely where you are blindly coming from now. We will continue enjoying the luxury our Buicks give us with a smile on our face knowing a big Buick can upstage many Lincolns both in the past and today with the new ones.

[Guest Tom]

I've been following this discussion with some interest as I used to work in a Lincoln Mercury dealership from the early 70's until the mid 80's. From when I was late in my teen's until my early 30's. I drove literally thousands of the 70's era Lincoln's, Town Cars, Mark IV's and V's in every possible configuration from base models to the Designer/Collectors Series. At the same time, my father had a series of Buick Electra's. He had a '72, '74 and '76. In fact I was with him at the Buick dealer in the fall of '75 when he ordered the '76 Electra Limited. It was very well loaded, and if my memory serves me right, the sticker price was right around $9600. Lincoln had a few options that were not available in the Buick, leather being one of them, but not many others.

Nothing I have said so far makes me an expert on either car, but just thought I'd give my thoughts since I was very familiar with both. In my opinion, the Buick Electra Limited with the cloth seats was everything that a comparably equipped Lincoln Town Car was with the upgraded cloth interior. Would I consider one to be better than the other? No. But you have to consider that the $9600 my dad paid for the '76 Electra Limited would have run him closer to $13,000 or $14,000 for the Lincoln Town Car. In my mind, it would have been hard to justify spending the additional money for not a lot more than being able to say you drove a Lincoln instead of a Buick.

[old-tank]

Cloth vs vinyl? Maybe vinyl was ordered for practical reasons like: a family with children or old folks with a 'control problem' :eek:

[Guest my3buicks]

Wow, that would have opened a whole new realm for advertising.

"In case your depends fail, "Depend on BUICK"

"We Got Your Back"

[LINC400]

The Park Ave was an interior trim package on the Electra in 1975-6, not a seperate model. So I cannot even find production figures on it. So as I said, probably a handful were made. So it is not exactly like all Park Ave's were a model that came with that interior standard. That interior was what made the Park Ave trim option. Regular Electras did not have that interior.

The green Lincoln interior is a bottom of the line Continental from 1975-79 with base interior. What does a bottom of the line Buick interior look like from 1975-76? How about a bottom of the line Cadillac? Not any more plush I'm sure. If you want to compare the bottom of the line Lincoln with probably 5%-15% of absolute top of the line Buicks, and claim that Buicks are better, have at it. If you compare the top of the line to bottom of the line anything, I would hope the top of the line would be better unless there was a huge difference such as Rolls Royce vs. Yugo. Otherwise why would anyone pay more for the premium models?

If you want to compare apples to apples, look up a 1976 Mark IV with Majestic Velour interior. It doesn't look any less plush to me than a Park Ave. I'd say it looks even more plush. As far as Lincoln costing more than Buick, so did Cadillac, and how much did they offer that you couldn't get on a Buick or top of the line Mercury? People paid more then to have the Cadillac or Lincoln nameplate sitting in their driveway to impress the neighbors. The same as they do now with Mercedes and BMW.

Personally I think if the Buick vinyl interiors were intended for those wearing Depends, it would have been more useful to have them in the last 20 years than in the 1970's.

Edited November 14, 2009 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[Rawja]

I'm really beginning to wonder about the cognitive abilities of my fellow hobbyists..... :eek:

[Bill Stoneberg]

Personally I think if the Buick vinyl interiors were intended for those wearing Depends, it would have been more useful to have them in the last 20 years than in the 1970's.

No, You dont see the point, the 70's were before Depends so that is when the vinyl seats were really needed.

How about this for a slogan "You can depend on Buicks to keep the interior looking nice".

Edited November 15, 2009 by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Well, it's too bad it's gotten to this point. There is certainly nothing to be gained from further discussion.

Vinyl is less desirable then clothe but has it's attributes. As my brother once said about his Torino, "this car has the rare hide of the Nauga"!

The bottom line is the hobby is large enough for all tastes. I can't think of one car I would slam if the person who brought it to the car show truly enjoys it's ownership as part of this hobby. Pintos, Vegas, four door sedans all inclusive.

And, I would personally never purchase a tagged car called a Collectors Edition etc. The car needs to stand on it's own merits. I think the Editions car of Lincoln were a "sizzle of the steak" ploy from Lee. LINC400, you know what I mean by that.

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Buick "outplushed" Lincoln?? In whose opinion besides yours?

Ummm.........mine. And considering that in the past Keith and I have disagreed on more than we agreed on , and that we both agree on this ought to tell you something. Ill put the interior of my 77 Limited up against the interior of any 70s Lincoln. And my interior is still original from 77. I dont think there are a whole lot of 70s Lincolns still sporting their factory installed interior. Also I would like to add that many of the 80s midsize Buicks were plusher than the Lincolns of the 70s. Hell man I had an 81 Skylark Limited compact that was incredibly plush and would have given any Lincoln a run for its money.

My car is NOT a Park Avenue edition it is a Limited. The Park was even plusher than the Limited. Now I dont have TOTAL production numbers in front of me for the Limited but what I can remember is that 33,000 of them were 2 doors like mine. But once again thats just the 2 door Limited , which does not give us numbers for the 4 door or the Estate Wagon. So I seriously doubt we are talking low numbers here for plush interiors

Of course this is a Buick board and you have to know that we are going to feel this way.

Dan

Edited November 16, 2009 by Dans 77 Limited (see edit history)

[LINC400]

Ummm.........mine. And considering that in the past Keith and I have disagreed on more than we agreed on , and that we both agree on this ought to tell you something. Ill put the interior of my 77 Limited up against the interior of any 70s Lincoln. And my interior is still original from 77. I dont think there are a whole lot of 70s Lincolns still sporting their factory installed interior. Also I would like to add that many of the 80s midsize Buicks were plusher than the Lincolns of the 70s. Hell man I had an 81 Skylark Limited compact that was incredibly plush and would have given any Lincoln a run for its money.

My car is NOT a Park Avenue edition it is a Limited. The Park was even plusher than the Limited. Now I dont have TOTAL production numbers in front of me for the Limited but what I can remember is that 33,000 of them were 2 doors like mine. But once again thats just the 2 door Limited , which does not give us numbers for the 4 door or the Estate Wagon. So I seriously doubt we are talking low numbers here for plush interiors

Of course this is a Buick board and you have to know that we are going to feel this way.

Dan

When GM downsized in 1977, they put plusher interiors in the cars to take the focus away from the smaller, boxier exteriors. In 1980, they made them even more plush. A 1985 LeSabre has a way plusher interior than a 1975 LeSabre. But they are 10 years apart, and more focus was put on the interior of the 1985. So it is hardly a fair comparison. Likewise, it does not make sense to compare a 1970's Lincoln to a 1985 Buick. However, I think they will compare a lot better. If you want to compare 1980's Buicks to a Lincoln, then compare them to the ultra plush 1980's Signature Series.

Buick produced 737,466 cars in 1976. Of those, 79,462 cars were Electra Limiteds 2 and 4 doors. So I guess we just ignore 658,004 cars for the Buicks had plusher interiors argument. Of the 79,462 approx half had vinyl according to My3Buicks. Even less had the Park Ave. option. So as I said, if you want to compare 5% or less of Buicks (apparently even less than my original estimate) to maybe 10%-15% of bottom of the line Lincolns, to claim that Buicks had better interiors, have at it. But wait, maybe I should claim that bottom of the line Lincolns don't count just like people here pretend that 658,000 Buicks for 1976 alone don't count.

If you regularly check Ebay for 1970's Lincolns like I do, you will see that not only do most Lincolns have the interior upgrades, but most of them also have the original interior in good condition. So I have no idea where the Lincolns do not have original interiors comment comes from. Obviously not any facts.

Personally, I see no point in further discussion of the whole Lincoln vs. Buick interiors discussion. The cars did not compete against each other, both are nice cars, and any comments you can make about Lincoln also apply to Cadillac, which did not have very impressive bottom of the line interiors for more money than a Buick either. And Buicks didn't have any plusher interiors than Oldsmobile for more money either.

Edited November 17, 2009 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[LINC400]

Well, it's too bad it's gotten to this point. There is certainly nothing to be gained from further discussion.

Vinyl is less desirable then clothe but has it's attributes. As my brother once said about his Torino, "this car has the rare hide of the Nauga"!

The bottom line is the hobby is large enough for all tastes. I can't think of one car I would slam if the person who brought it to the car show truly enjoys it's ownership as part of this hobby. Pintos, Vegas, four door sedans all inclusive.

And, I would personally never purchase a tagged car called a Collectors Edition etc. The car needs to stand on it's own merits. I think the Editions car of Lincoln were a "sizzle of the steak" ploy from Lee. LINC400, you know what I mean by that.

I would say a steak is good, and a steak with sizzle even better.

[Guest Daniel Kuczek]

I'm restoring a 2 door 85 Collector's Edition LeSabre. Surprised to see that there seems to be so little respect for this model, but it's the only "collector" car that my budget will allow right now (had to sell my '50 Super to help pay the divorce attorney:mad:). I still love it, I'm just going to work on it a little at a time have fun along the way.

Getting back to the original questions... The Collector Edition badging came on all '85 RWD LeSabres, no matter what the option/trim level. Badging is on the hood ornament, B-pillar, dash, and there are special keys and leather key fob as well as the before-mentioned portfolio. Everything else is pretty much the same as the 1984s.

My car is definitely not "plush"... only options are leather seats and cruise. Car has power seat on the driver side only, manual windows, locks & mirrors, no vinyl top, no vanity mirrors, no power trunk release, etc., etc. I'd also love to know the production figures if anybody's got them... since this was a half-year model, they can't be too high.

I've also been looking for the art prints that came with the portfolio... if anyone else is throwing these away, feel free to send them my way instead!!

Also looking for the plastic filler panel that goes below the license plate/gas filler, a nice set of OEM floor mats in tan, a rim or two, and the chrome moulding on the lower part of the front fender behind the wheel. No luck in the salvage yards around here either.

[Guest BJM]

I'm restoring a 2 door 85 Collector's Edition LeSabre. Surprised to see that there seems to be so little respect for this model, but it's the only "collector" car that my budget will allow right now (had to sell my '50 Super to help pay the divorce attorney:mad:). I still love it, I'm just going to work on it a little at a time have fun along the way.

I've also been looking for the art prints that came with the portfolio... if anyone else is throwing these away, feel free to send them my way instead!!

Also looking for the plastic filler panel that goes below the license plate/gas filler, a nice set of OEM floor mats in tan, a rim or two, and the chrome moulding on the lower part of the front fender behind the wheel. No luck in the salvage yards around here either.

I'll see if I can't get you the collectors edition portfolio. Remember, the basic premise that all of us agree to on here is that the 85 LeSabre 2 doors are nice looking cars, it's just not that we believe the Collectors Edition badging adds any cache or value to the model.

[gungeey]

The 85 Lesabre came as 4 models. LeSabre Coupe and Sedan. Limited Coupe and Sedan.

Only the Limited's were Collector Editions.

Collector Editions included:

50/50 Notchback seats with 6 way power drivers seat

Electroluminescent instrument panel

Belt reveal mouldings

Painted Accent stripes

Limited Steering wheel

Woodgrain trim on doors

Wide Rocker moulding panels (stainless)

Also standard on the CE's were tinted glass, chimes for headlights on,seat belt chime, ignition key warning chime.

OP, I hope this is not repeated,, I couldn't spend all day sifting through the endless pages of gibberish...Steve

[Guest Daniel Kuczek]

Thanks for the info, everyone.

Paul, Thanks for the lead on the bumper fillers, I'm getting ready to replace the rear bumper anyway so I'll order the fillers and do it all at once. I totally agree with you on this particular era in GM styling... my favorite is the 80-85 Seville, but all the E/K bodies including your Toronado had such classic lines. I've had several Cadillacs from this era and they were all great cars. You're also right on about the 307... underpowered, yes, but pretty much indestructible. Will look into the Olds trim also to to see if it's the same.

Steve, my CE has several differences from your list. I have the standard instrument panel, no electroluminescent lighting... I'm positive about this, because almost none of the panel lights were working when I got the car. When I got it apart I found that all the lighting used the standard 168 incandescent bulbs. Also, the steering wheel is identical to the standard one used in 1984/85. I also don't have the headlight or seat belt chimes, just the ignition one. I got the car from the original owner and with complete literature and documentation (except for those art prints) so I know nothing has been changed from original. I wonder if GM was trying to use up leftover parts, or ran out of some parts since they knew the line was ending, resulting in these kind of variations.

[LINC400]

I like the 1980-85 Full size GM's, and except for the 1991-96 Caprice/Roadmaster/Brougham, consider them to be the last "real" cars from GM. However, 1970's cars (except for muscle cars) still do not get the respect they deserve. Many people on here claim that they are not worth anything and are not good enough to be called antiques. Usually this comes from old timers that demanded recognition for the cars they like when they were 20 years old, but now a 35 year old car is not good enough for them. With that being the case, it will take even longer for the 1980's cars to command any respect and increase in value. However, that means that you can buy a car that needs nothing or very little inexpensively and enjoy it.

Also I drive my car, and I like creature comforts. 1970's- 1980's cars will generally be much better equipped with these. There is some perverse pleasure in going on a driving tour with "money is never a problem" people and watching them sweat on a hot August day in their V-16 Cadillac closed coupe or open Duesenberg while I have the A/C on full blast with my 8-tracks blaring away.

Edited November 20, 2009 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Hello Daniel:

As I've owned an '84 Olds Toronado since it was new, I like this era of 'body on frame' GM iron with tasteful styling (IMHO)...

Good Luck,

Paul

Paul, very nice car. does not look like a 190,000 mile car.

[Flowtek]

On 10/27/2009 at 10:05 AM, buzzflood said:

Hi Jake,

Thanks very much for the super-quick reply. Not that I'm very familiar with the details of the Lesabre, but I didn't see anything that made the car special. I only knew it was a 'Collector's Edition' because of the insignia on the dashboard. It's hard to believe that Buick would throw the CE label on a car with such insignificant distinctions. Thanks again!

I had the 79 collectors lesabre. Was a great car; it's more aerodynamic body than other versions and the rear bumper wasfactory stamped engraved with "collectors edition" which was distinctive and still haven't seen another with it.