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Bhigdog

I thought I would puke

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I understand that but if I would ever attend the streetrod nationals again I dont want to look at post 49 vehicles,I can see all I want of the newer vehicles at the local shows.

And no one is forcing you to. Just walk on by.

I go to many shows where modern vehicles are being shown. Instead of moaning about the fact that they are there, I just ignore them. I don't even take photos of them, but I don't begrudge their right to be there if the show allows it.

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Since I started this thread let me clarify and yet again restate my reason for doing so. A rereading of my posts will show that at no time did I disparage "street rods" per se. And yes, I totally agree that someone can do whatever they want with a car they own. My post only expressed my revulsion at what was done to the two butchered (def: Butch-er. an unskilled or careless workman. Webster's 3rd international dictionary) cars I mentioned. As Dave made clear in his well expressed comments the post was not anti street rod.

I am not anti street rod. In fact when I was young and dumb I myself butchered two fine cars to make a personal statement, a 1954 Ford Vicky and a 1941 Merc convertable. Much like many of today's, shall we say "customizers", I swapped engines, nosed and decked, installed dual lake pipes, spinner hub caps, a custom interior, etc etc, all topped off with garish paint. It was only much later in life did I realize that the two fine cars I ruined to make my personal statement looked very much like everyone else's personal statement. It was merely a variation on a theme, much like todays "customs."

so to again re-re-state. I have nothing against street rods so why keep reading something into my post that is not there. Some folks seem spring loaded to the victim position. I would have been just as repulsed had those two fine cars been butchered for any other purpose. But Butchered they were and there just is no getting around that..............Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)

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..... My post only expressed my revulsion at what was done to the two butchered (def: Butch-er. an unskilled or careless workman. Webster's 3rd international dictionary) cars I mentioned. ..............Bob

And I for one understood that. And I feel the same way. I like to see a vehicle that looks classy. My mom was a wonderful artist in several mediums and styles and she knew how to put complimentary colors and designs together for a pleasing result. :) So I grew up around art most of my life. I have seen some BAD art in my life. :eek: And there are people that love BAD art. I don't happen to be one of them. So when I look at a vehicle that has been worked on in whatever style it was done, restored/modified/streed rodded/hot rodded, I want to see class. Not something that had the fruit bowl hurled at it and whatever stuck, stuck.

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I guess I am in the same boat as you in the AACA,you dont want to see hotrods in your shows and I dont want to see newer vehicles at NSRA events. I am beginning to stay away from the very large shows and attending the smaller ones,6500 plus are just too much to see in one day.

And no one is forcing you to. Just walk on by.

I go to many shows where modern vehicles are being shown. Instead of moaning about the fact that they are there, I just ignore them. I don't even take photos of them, but I don't begrudge their right to be there if the show allows it.

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Its just a body only with nothing else and if you would want to give big money for it I know he would sell it.

I'm sure with a $95,000-$150,000 car somebody could afford to restore it back to original. I just have to believe that.

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Remember this.... Just 'caus it's yours and you can do anything you want to with it, doesn't mean you should!!!...B

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Why?

Because some people want to do stupid things.

That's fine when they're fooling around in the middle of the night in their garage with a box of M-80s and an acetylene torch. Except for higher medical insurance premiums and deductibles (as things stand right now) it won't effect me or anyone else. Right now I have a good friend trying to find a decent post-war straight 8 Pontiac. It's been months now and he's having almost no luck at all, just one good lead that he was too late on. (@ Hershey there was one really nice 1951 HPOF car, period. None for sale.) If stock, once dirt-common cars like this are getting hard to find, what chance does the Hupmobile or Terraplane hopeful have (let alone a Willys or Marmon fan)? :confused:

Who's going to restore the last antique car?:confused:

Willful ignorance of a problem is not the same as addressing it.

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The world will run out of oil in 500+ years and there will be unrestored cars from 1910 still looking for a restorer.

Who's going to restore the last antique car?:confused:

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The world will run out of oil in 500+ years and there will be unrestored cars from 1910 still looking for a restorer.

That's an incredibly optimistic answer to what was a rhetorical question.:)

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I'm curious. How does the AACA feel about factory customs or customs done for manufacturers, like show cars? Could Harley Earl's creations not appear on your show field? Would they not have a place?

I don't bash anyone for cutting up anything. However, a tear frequently comes to my eye on cruise night. What's with all the punched louvers? Speed holes?

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I see this issue from both sides. I like some street rods. But I like stock cars better. When I see rare cars hot roded I hope they were in such bad shape before,that it would have cost too much to restore.

But what did upset me was a article in Street Rodder about a year ago or so. Showing a fully hot roded 1937 Lincoln conv. In the article the owner talks about how he brought the car fully restored, and how the guy he brought it from had spent 5 years restoring it. So when he brought the car, he told the owner what a great job he did and how he had been looking for a stock Lincoln for years. Paid for the car and then drove it right to the hot rod shop to have it rodded. The article made it seem like he had pulled the wool over this guys eyes and gotten away with a car, that the owner would not have sold to him had he know what he was going to do with it.

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I'd like to see them on the show field, but I can't see them as a judged class. The louvered Hot Rods are just sporting a feature from days gone by when deck lids were louvered to allow air flow, the feature dates back to GP Bugatti and other race cars. :)

I'm curious. How does the AACA feel about factory customs or customs done for manufacturers, like show cars? Could Harley Earl's creations not appear on your show field? Would they not have a place?

I don't bash anyone for cutting up anything. However, a tear frequently comes to my eye on cruise night. What's with all the punched louvers? Speed holes?

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Remember this.... Just 'caus it's yours and you can do anything you want to with it, doesn't mean you should!!!...B

And if you do, commonsense says it may not be one of your better ideas to brag about it on a club's website that you know is devoted to the preservation of antique vehicles in stock form. Same commonsense mind-set applies with a purist posting on a website that they know is devoted to the cutting up and modifying of stock vehicles.

Two entirely different worlds and thought process in regards to who likes what in a vehicle. We can coexist but we don't have to do it in the same arena.

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The way I look at it is if you take a vehicle from a junkyard or field and get it back on the road (rodded or restored) it has been preserved but taking a perfectly good vehicle and cutting it up is a totally different matter.

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This controversy has been going on as long as I have been in the hobby and that was shortly after cars were invented, well...not quite. Anyway, I don't mind seeing a well done street rod or traditional hot rod from time to time. I personally prefer stock, original or well restored cars. I do see a trend however and that is as hot rodders have developed more spendable income over the years they begin a project with the best car they can find. I know of several cars that I saw on the show field at Hershey a few years ago that are now high priced street rods. Just as said by others above, the owner has the right to do what ever he wants with his property. He could bury the car in the backyard if he chooses. However, I fear that at some point future generations will not be able to view and enjoy a bone stock car out on the road as the bulk will have small block Chevy's and mag wheels, except at a museum. For history sake I hope a few cars are spared.

Thank goodness for AACA's pure stock policy for judging. Lets hope no future board approves even the little modifications such as mag wheels, non-correct white wall widths, hidden A/C.

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I attended a swap meet a few years back where sat a circa 1934 Packard touring sedan in a candy apple colour and looking very well restored. On closed inspection it proved to be chopped and channelled. Bucket seats and center consule in a colour to match A few questions qualified a Cadillac power train. James Ward would have been proud to see the more current version of his car.

I am a bit of a purist on cars, 21 & 31 Packards as original BUT

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QUOTE: The way I look at it is if you take a vehicle from a junkyard or field and get it back on the road (rodded or restored) it has been preserved but taking a perfectly good vehicle and cutting it up is a totally different matter. UNQUOTE

Even when you street rod one of these, it's like re-writing history. It's getting to a point now that at cruise-in's even older people don't know or remember what a real car looks like. They actually think it came that way. It's so sad, I can hardly stand to go to an old car event of that type anymore. The problem is, here in Central Florida, there is hardly any other kind, so for the most part my cars sit in the garage, or go for a ride, until I can load them into a trailer and go to a real car show. One of the few is a wonderful venue once yearly in Lakeland called the Lake Mirror Classic and it's a joy to go to. Problem is, there are 51 other weekends in the year.

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I understand that but they have not been crushed and made into cheap junk coming from China and someone is available to enjoy it and it did not get destroyed,in a few years people might think they came that way but what you going to do about it since people are getting dumber.

QUOTE: The way I look at it is if you take a vehicle from a junkyard or field and get it back on the road (rodded or restored) it has been preserved but taking a perfectly good vehicle and cutting it up is a totally different matter. UNQUOTE

Even when you street rod one of these, it's like re-writing history. It's getting to a point now that at cruise-in's even older people don't know or remember what a real car looks like. They actually think it came that way. It's so sad, I can hardly stand to go to an old car event of that type anymore. The problem is, here in Central Florida, there is hardly any other kind, so for the most part my cars sit in the garage, or go for a ride, until I can load them into a trailer and go to a real car show. One of the few is a wonderful venue once yearly in Lakeland called the Lake Mirror Classic and it's a joy to go to. Problem is, there are 51 other weekends in the year.

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in a few years people might think they came that way but what you going to do about it since people are getting dumber.

JJeff,

That's precisely the reason that the job of preservationists is as important now as it has ever been...to educate (or re-educate) folks to the way cars (or other antiquities) were in their original state.

It's like the finders of the Dead Sea Scrolls took a look at what they'd found and decided "improve" upon them with, say, colorization or other "enhancements." I'm not really comparing the DSS to a '57 Buick or '34 Packard, but I hope you get the idea.

How many episodes of the Antiques Roadshow does one have to see where the value of "a thing" is a fraction of what it would be if left alone, unaltered? Cut or shorten the legs of a rare piece of 18th-century furniture (to make it fit in your dining room or guest bath), and, "poof," much of it's value is lost, irreplaceably. Because it no longer exists in its orignal context.

Restored cars don't exactly follow that rule, because before most of us were born, groups of people got together to ensure that future generations could enjoy, interpret, and drive the automotive history that was vanishing before their very eyes. Thus the clubs were born, with their members following rules and standards that continually adapt to the times. Take HPOF and DPC, for example. Or the Racing Class recently adopted; all historic vehicles with provenance (and continued certification) required for their inclusion.

Personally, I could see a custom like the Hirohata Merc or rods like the Lakers or important period one-off cars having a place on the show field. But Bubba's plastic rat rod T-bucket, and the '34 Buick Series 90 Victoria (with SMC-power, Mustang II front end, and GM B-body tilt wheel) need to go elsewhere.

Since I have the power to include/exclude neither, I'll stick to the rules (subject to change) and adhere to my core values, knowing that I won't have to avoid certain vehicle types at an AACA show, 'cause they won't be there in the first place. Happy that, with the thousands of shows (AACA, et al.) on a global scale, there are plenty of venues to satisfy my desires. And, thankful for a Forum such as this to seek out others with similar interests, content, noting that those values and desires are not mine alone.

Intolerance? I don't think so, but at the end of the day,

"Make it original (or restored to original), or make it go away."

TG

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I find it interesting that this topic mirrors what you would find when discussing politics. Two sides can and will not compromise and see no value in what the other might represent. In addition, passionate terms (i.e. "butchered") are used to describe what others have done.

I am not a rodder, though I own a '64 Studebaker Commander 4 door with a Chevy 305 and late model seats (only because it was cheap). I guess putting headers on my '74 CJ-5 25 years ago can be forgiven....

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I find it interesting that this topic mirrors what you would find when discussing politics. Two sides can and will not compromise and see no value in what the other might represent. In addition, passionate terms (i.e. "butchered") are used to describe what others have done.

I am not a rodder, though I own a '64 Studebaker Commander 4 door with a Chevy 305 and late model seats (only because it was cheap). I guess putting headers on my '74 CJ-5 25 years ago can be forgiven....

Again...........Read the posts. The automobiles in question were "butchered". Read the definition straight from Webster's. Nothing passionate about it. If I wanted passionate I would have used another definition, i.e. "to destroy without compunction in a wanton manner" instead of merely unskillfull.

But you are correct. All we're doing here is flapping our gums to no great effect. The flip side is that as long as everyone is respectfull it makes for an interesting thread, as you yourself said in your first sentence. So far, other than a few snarky early posts it's been very civil. I myself see no harm. It might even convince me to "rod" one of my cars. I'm thinking maybe a big blower protruding through the hood, louvers, velour buckets, and a really nice pink and green flame job. Yeah that's the ticket...............Bob

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I will be honest and say that non of my vehicles are 100 percent original,I dont have the money to buy a real nice one and end up with abandoned projects or vehicles that are very incomplete and I use what I can find to get it running. For example the 53 Olds 88 I had for years,I bought it with a blown motor and found a 59 dynamic 88 for 50 dollars so the motor and trans from the 59 went in the 53 and after going through the brakes it was on the road and then I found a under dash a/c out of a 62 and it went in too. The only one I had that was original was my 50 chrysler windsor 8 pass sedan since it came with a 50 parts car and my 37 chevy p/u did not have a motor and came up with a 57 235 cheap so guess what it went in and drove it for 8 years before adding a overdrive trans so I can go on the highway. I build the junkers I get to drive and since I do not have a trailer they have to be able to go at highway speeds so none of mine are 100 percent original,I like keeping the original motors but adapting modern trans and rear ends so I can enjoy them and I do know thats not what really is liked on here but I dont butcher them so they cant be returned to original if I sold it.

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My point is that terms such as "butchered" are ones of passion that are utilized to sway the opinions of others. While I have not seen the car nor the workmanship in question, it could have also been described as "altered" or "modified". However, my observation is that like politics, people tend to take sides and do not write from a neutral point of view but rather attempt to sway others to their point of view.

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Hi Gary, your ideas above on the politics of taking sides occurred to me during this discussion too, and I considered if we are not having a "two party" line of distinction here.

I think most of us could agree that in a Democrat/Republican disgreement both parties disagree but both think their opinion is the best for the country. They may think the other side is wrong, but generally not that the other side is being deliberately destructive. Speaking for myself I think the street rodder IS being destructive, and that he would often gleefully AGREE. We have all seen the popular T shirt "Anyone can restore a car, it takes a real man to cut one up." We also know the street rodder will lie to an old car seller knowing if he reveals his destructive intentions he will not acquire the car. Then the whole rationale seems to be to change as much as possible then brag about it, possibly to show what a "rebel" he is and how much he resists confirmity (as he creates a small block powered vehicle to impress others with similar cars).

It looks to me like it is considered a badge of honor to street rod a nice original car and then be as in-your-face as possible to those who would prefer authentic restoration and preservation. With that I do not know that we can see this as a harmless difference of opinion. So do both sides just co-exist? Of course. Do we become "tolerant"? I guess we can just hope that popular opinion swings our way again (unlikely) and make it known that authenticity is more rewarding to us. It is to me.

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