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Bhigdog

I thought I would puke

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And I feel the same way about those who feel compelled to continually start anti-street-rod threads. There have been a lot of those in this forum lately, and none have ended well.

More abuse of other people's words. I think Bob did not start this thread to complain about street rods. I don't think anyone EVER has. To my taste there has NEVER been an anti-street rod thread on this forum.

This thread, and (I believe) every one before it, exists to bemoan HOW people have made specific street rods. If people can get on here and complain about poorly restored cars, or cars that are poorly cared for, or cars that are incorrectly repaired/painted/restored/upholstered/etc....., why the he!! can't people complain about cars that are street rodded in a destructive manner?:confused: Particularly when non-destructive methods exists to make wonderful street rods?:confused::confused:

If judging what people do with their old cars is beneath the dignity of this organization, why do we have a manual in how to do it?

Edited by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

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That is true but I have seen plenty of field cars put back on the road and my friend with the Cord body has done a few,alot of people I know dont have 15,000 to buy a good car to start with and get what they can afford.

Any car that's too expensive to restore properly is likely just as relatively expensive to street rod. Long ago it was discovered that you can buy a restored $15K car, part out the "old" stuff for $10K, save another $10K in prep and materials cost, and get the same street rod on the cheap (with a little up-front money). Ditto for a $65K car or a $200K car.

Many of these "field cars" are now coming from a field that is just across the street to the west of the Orange Field, about a half mile away from the Giant Center.:mad:

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Bob, I am with you completely. Personally, I think most street rodding is destructive and am in the AACA because I understand it exists to promote authentic preservation and restoration. That is why street rods are not allowed to be displayed at AACA shows, yes? I am only interested in restored and preserved cars and thought that was the mission of the club. Of course we here are not all AACA members, but if we are not into restoration and preservation then why are we on this forum?

I do not generally get into these threads because they only cause arguments. It is always (correctly) pointed out that a guy can do what he wants with his property. It is also always (correctly) pointed out that the street rod world is growing and mine is shrinking. But that is still why I am here and not on a street rod forum, of which I guess there are many. Too bad we had to have another argument, but I am with you Bob,

PS--I do not want to see them on our own home page thumbnails either

Todd

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More abuse of other people's words. I think Bob did not start this thread to complain about street rods. I don't think anyone EVER has. To my taste there has NEVER been an anti-street rod thread on this forum.

This thread, and (I believe) every one before it, exists to bemoan HOW people have made specific street rods. If people can get on here and complain about poorly restored cars, or cars that are poorly cared for, or cars that are incorrectly repaired/painted/restored/upholstered/etc....., why the he!! can't people complain about cars that are street rodded in a destructive manner?:confused: Particularly when non-destructive methods exists to make wonderful street rods?:confused::confused:

If judging what people do with their old cars is beneath the dignity of this organization, why do we have a manual in how to do it?

At last! A thin ray of understading illuminates the gloom of knee jerk dogma.......Bob

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If everyone would like them all like me we would have no problems or arguments but I know this is a restoration website,I am itching for a period correct early 50s hotrod or custom with no late model parts and might be my next purchase if I can only sell some stuff to get the funds.

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Too bad we had to have another argument, but I am with you Bob,

PS--I do not want to see them on our own home page thumbnails either

Todd

Thanks Todd for your comment, But I see this as a discussion not an argument at all. By starting this thread I learned that there are Cord bodies fit only for the crusher or rodding, That good Cords are actually parted out for profit, and a few other interesting tid bits. I thought that was the purpose of this forum, to learn from or inform others. There always will be a few that substitute invective and bluster for informed comment but I usually just discount them..........Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)

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The diffacult at once the imposable next. My wife bought a 65 Skylark in 68, drove it untill 79 and gave it to her son. He sold it to a farmer for a parts car in1981. The Skylark sat in the mud behind a barn untill 1996 when it was found by my nephew and givin back to my wife AFTER numbers where checked and it was confirmed as the same car. I a retired person, with an income two nickles above poor, wheeled and dealed junk parts an labor for 10 years, but today that Skylark is a senior aaca car and was invited and attended a concours. Im with Bob. There is IMHO no GOOD reason to butcher a classic

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Bob, I am with you completely. Personally, I think most street rodding is destructive and am in the AACA because I understand it exists to promote authentic preservation and restoration. That is why street rods are not allowed to be displayed at AACA shows, yes? I am only interested in restored and preserved cars and thought that was the mission of the club. Of course we here are not all AACA members, but if we are not into restoration and preservation then why are we on this forum?

Right on Todd. What's really scary, and not much talked about, is that there are rumblings that the AACA should include rods & customs, much the same as the Buick Club and other marque clubs have done. The rationale is, since the club base is shrinking, inviting rods & customs will grow our ranks. If that's the only path to growth, I'd rather see the club contract and retain its mandate.

I've said before that's the reason I quit the BCA, and that the same would happen should the AACA accept those cars. If I want to see the other side, I'll go to a Good Guys show or a local cruise-in or suscribe to their forums. Since I want neither, I won't. Period.

In trying to be nicey-nice to all, it would seem the AACA is diluting its core constituency by kowtowing to a crowd that could care less about our founding principles. Given that there are AACA'ers who have both preserved/restored and rod/customs, I don't wish to offend them. I just don't want to see the latter at AACA shows.

Same for this Forum, and thankfully we usually only see rods here in cautionary roles...what not to do with your car. (It would be interesting to know how many DF'ers are actual dues-paying members of the club, as many club forums are restricted only to members in good standing).

Bob, I too feel your pain. To those who think restoration/preservation = rodding, I have to say, "Fat chance".

TG

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I have seen many threads about the hot rodding of very rare and sometimes Full Classic cars. I am always surprised how those of us who think this is an unfortunate thing to do are usually dismissed with the phrase "It's his car and he has the right to do what he wants to it." I am getting tired to hearing this. After all the AACA is dedicated to the historical preservation of antique automobiles. I know the statement is true (his car can do what he wants to it) but that doesn't mean I have to like it and approve of the butchering of Full Classics and other interesting cars. I don't have data but I think many nicely restored cars have been street rodded and it is not always cars that need a lot of work.

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I think I heard about period race cars being showed at AACA shows? and if thats true what are race cars, modified cars and with that being said how about period customs and hotrods that were done when they were just considered old cars that were cheap for the younger crowd of that era to tinker with. Streetrods have no place in a AACA show but customs and hotrods from the 40s and 50s would be a something to consider if they have all the period parts and I think they are welcome at Pebble Beach or other shows like that if they are correct.

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I have tried not to get involved in this thread but a couple of issues need to be addressed. This is a very emotional subject for many.

1. AACA is not shrinking! The challenge is there but so far we are vigorously trying to prevent that from happening by being progressive.

2. AACA has not changed their mission nor belief system.

3. This forum is sponsored by AACA for the good of the hobby but not all members of the forum are AACA memebers and do not speak for the board of directors

4. AACA tried to institute a class several years ago that would have allowed for the restoration of period, authenticated modified cars such as Pebble Beach and others now show. It is estimated there are less than 100 of these vehicles in existence. The class was not approved but if it had it would not have changed AACA's mission as the poster is correct, it is no different than the race car class.

5. The club has tried not to be anti but pro for perserving our history and our heritage

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I think I heard about period race cars being showed at AACA shows? and if thats true what are race cars, modified cars and with that being said how about period customs and hotrods that were done when they were just considered old cars that were cheap for the younger crowd of that era to tinker with. Streetrods have no place in a AACA show but customs and hotrods from the 40s and 50s would be a something to consider if they have all the period parts and I think they are welcome at Pebble Beach or other shows like that if they are correct.

Good point, Jeff. I'm not sure of the criteria the AACA uses to admit race cars but I think there has to be some kind of provinance or record of them being authentic period race cars rather than some current, cobbled together, race car or hot rod. Perhaps there is room for authentic hot rods of a proven and influential heritage in the AACA. At this years Meadow Brook concours they had a class of period drag racers. To my eye they looked totally out of place. At one point they fired up a few of them and blasted the show with straight pipe noise. There was a small group that seemed to like it but in the context of a Concours it seemed tacky and diminishing to the rest of the patrons so I think the AACA should be VERY careful with this.....Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)

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I have said this before, a rodder is no different than a concours restorer, both will want to start with as good of a car as they can afford. Unfortunately, that means that classic and desirable cars will be lost. I know of no way we can buy them all to prevent that from happening...

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My interest in old cars goes back nearly 50 years, and I have never seen the hobby so fractured.

There are many catagories of restorers and even more when it comes to rods.

Even the NSRA is in chaos now with expanding the age from pre 1949 to something in the 80's?

I was just talking with my son at a show yesterday. He said that out of his whole highschool with 1500 plus kids, only one or two kids show any interest in anything old. He claims kids today want "fast, new, and with a warantee"

...and here we sit, hoping the hobby will stay the same forever..

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I will probably never go to another NSRA event again with their 30 year deal,if I want to look at late 70s stuff I will attend the local cruise ins. Even though late 70s are over 30 years old I still consider them daily drivers

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I will probably never go to another NSRA event again with their 30 year deal,if I want to look at late 70s stuff I will attend the local cruise ins. Even though late 70s are over 30 years old I still consider them daily drivers

Did you ever stop to think that when the AACA was formed (1935), the majority of antiques in exisitance then were maybe 30 years old? Why is today so different.

I find the intolerance toward other hobbiests by some members of this club and forum to be very sad.

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I understand that but if I would ever attend the streetrod nationals again I dont want to look at post 49 vehicles,I can see all I want of the newer vehicles at the local shows.

Did you ever stop to think that when the AACA was formed (1935), the majority of antiques in exisitance then were maybe 30 years old? Why is today so different.

I find the intolerance toward other hobbiests by some members of this club and forum to be very sad.

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To TGRoadmaster, thanks for your comments earlier. You mention the BCA expanding their street rod membership; the same thing is happening with the Pontiac Oakland Club and I am on the verge of dropping out. The club officers indignantly deny it but it is obvious from the club magazine that street rods and drag racing are now their primary interest. There is now a splinter group of long time Pontiac Oakland members that started a new AACA chapter to cover those interested in authentic restoration and preservation.

As was said, it is thought that one must be more inclusive to grow and this is a problem with many car clubs. BCA and POCI look like two examples where the original mission is sacrificed for growth, but then the older, long time members are the ones who are alienated and leave, resulting in net shrinkage anyway. Apparently our street rod friendly readers like junkyardjeff even have similar issues with the NSRA and their new inclusion policy, who knew? I am glad the AACA has resisted this, and am glad that they resisted the vintage street rod issue a few years ago. I said at the time that the vintage race car people pushing this were a VERY limited few and would only open up a slippery slope of what to allow in a proposed street rod class. Note that I actually like 1950s era street rods, but the documentation of original feature cars would be a nightmare, "tribute" cars would be next, then pretty soon anything goes, I encourage Steve and company to not go down that road, it would end up a net loss. Thanks, Todd C

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You pretty much nailed it, Todd.............bob

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..... As was said, it is thought that one must be more inclusive to grow and this is a problem with many car clubs. BCA and POCI look like two examples where the original mission is sacrificed for growth, but then the older, long time members are the ones who are alienated and leave, resulting in net shrinkage anyway. Apparently our street rod friendly readers like junkyardjeff even have similar issues with the NSRA and their new inclusion policy, who knew? I am glad the AACA has resisted this, and am glad that they resisted the vintage street rod issue a few years ago. I said at the time that the vintage race car people pushing this were a VERY limited few and would only open up a slippery slope of what to allow in a proposed street rod class. Note that I actually like 1950s era street rods, but the documentation of original feature cars would be a nightmare, "tribute" cars would be next, then pretty soon anything goes, I encourage Steve and company to not go down that road, it would end up a net loss. Thanks, Todd C

I agree. All of the sudden we have folks coming on here wanting to post photos of their modified vehicles, talk about them and even ask how to further modify them. The AACA's mission to to preserve vehicles as they could have come from the factory. They are not an open club for all varities of vehicles.

I am NOT against those vehicles or their owners. Bill and I go to open shows and street rod/hot rod/modified shows to see and enjoy the vehicles and talk to the owners.

What I am against is the AACA forums being taken over by folks that do not truly share our version of the hobby. Their version of the hobby is fine. We have long time members here that have those kinds of vehicles in addition to vehicles that meed the standards set by the AACA. They do not post photos of the ones that do not meet AACA standards or openly talk about them because it basically is against the rules to do so.

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I agree. All of the sudden we have folks coming on here wanting to post photos of their modified vehicles, talk about them and even ask how to further modify them. The AACA's mission to to preserve vehicles as they could have come from the factory. They are not an open club for all varities of vehicles. QUOTE]

Yup, looks that way Susan and that is not what the AACA is for. I do, however, think that lots of first time readers honestly do not realize that (and our recent use of thumbnails of modifed cars on the home page does not help!)

What I mean to say is that I think we get lots of casual car fans who's involvement in old cars is only at the local cruise night, not Hershey or AACA meets. They like old cars and maybe even have one, but they do not differentiate between authentic and modified, they just see an old car and want to join in the fun. Unfortunately their hometown old car friends are all about modifying and this person is unlikely to have any positive influences to keep it stock. They see the forum, ask a naive rookie question, and we can only hope a crusty old timer does not insult them and send them back to the "inclusive" modified crowd, never to return to stock again. We should be able to recognize a regular and a newcomer and be careful to be helpful. BUT we still need to emphasize what we are about and gently but firmly make it clear that we are not street rodders and there are other places to support that, not here.

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What I am against is the AACA forums being taken over by folks that do not truly share our version of the hobby. Their version of the hobby is fine. We have long time members here that have those kinds of vehicles in addition to vehicles that meed the standards set by the AACA. They do not post photos of the ones that do not meet AACA standards or openly talk about them because it basically is against the rules to do so.

Susan,

You are completely correct, and that position is obviously consistent with the intent of the organization (although it IS a slippery slope). When street rodders post questions in the various forums, they are usually ignored. Again, that is not only fine but appropriate for an AACA forum (though apparently there is no issue with discussing swapping a later model overdrive automatic into a 1960s vintage auto...).

I have to wonder why the anti-street rod segment thinks that it is necessary to continually start threads about "butchered cars", however. Again, these are not cars that were featured in anything connected to AACA nor were they brought up here except by the detractors.

As the stated mission of the AACA is preservation, precluding street rod discussions is appropriate. That should apply to ALL street rod discussions.

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I think I've seen that Cord at Ormand Beach in Florida. I certainly hope there is only ONE! It is disgusting to see these great old cars ruined and lost forever --- the Olds included. What can we do? Nothing really. Boycotting their cruise-in's doesn't really help, because they don't appreciate an original car anyway. We can try to keep from selling a car to one of them, but they lie and you never really know. I've already had that happen to me, he lied. Later I found out who he was and what he was really into. Fortunately, he never got around to it and sold it to a dealer in Orlando who sold it to somebody in Spain. I hate to think of it going out of the country, but if it stayed original it was worth it.

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I do know someone who has a Cord 4 door body that will end up the same way but its incomplete and would cost way more then its worth to put back original,at least it will live on and did not get crushed so dont get too upset when you see a modified vehicle as some could have been closed to being turned into crap coming from China.

I'm sure with a $95,000-$150,000 car somebody could afford to restore it back to original. I just have to believe that.

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I have to wonder why the anti-street rod segment thinks that it is necessary to continually start threads about "butchered cars", however. Again, these are not cars that were featured in anything connected to AACA nor were they brought up here except by the detractors.

As the stated mission of the AACA is preservation, precluding street rod discussions is appropriate. That should apply to ALL street rod discussions.

Agree 100%.

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