removal of rust in water jacket

[mikzjr@aol.com]

I have a 29 chrysler in removal of the water pump I noticed flakes of rust in the water jacket area so with a small magnet I went down along the cyl. removing the rust, don't want to remove the water jacket covers if possible bolts break off can't get the covers to seal ect. would it hurt to put iron out in the block and flush the rust out that way or bite the bullet and remove the covers.

[hchris]

The only way you will ever get the scale / rust out of the block is to have it dipped in a commercial cleaning bath. If you have been poking round in the block you will probably do more harm than good, as the scale you have disturbed will now be carried into the radiator. It might be wise to put a stocking in the upper radiator hose to capture any scale before you run the engine again; leave it there a 50 miles or so then remove and you may be surprised at whats in it.

[mikzjr@aol.com]

Thats for the tip

[Guest B1rdman]

i had the rust problem. mine is a 1927 Hupmobile

pulled the cylinder cover off on drivers side, careful bolts will break.

anyway you would not believe what i got out of that engine.

as far as i know i did not cause myself any problems

[Rusty_OToole]

I did this a while back on a flathead DeSoto six. The engine was full of antifreeze when I drained it, and the water jacket had an inch of mud in the bottom. It washed out easily with a pressure washer helped by an air hose.

If it is not practical to wash your engine out this way, you could try adding CLR calcium lime and rust remover to the cooling system. This will dissolve rust and scale but not hurt aluminum parts. You may need to drain and flush the cooling system several times until the water stays clean.

[mikzjr@aol.com]

Thanks for the advice Rusty, this weekend I went to the hardware store to try clr but it said not to use on aluminum so I scratched that idea I am going to pull the water jacket covers and cross my fingers.

[Rusty_OToole]

Sorry I thought CLR was safe for aluminum. Glad you pointed that out.

[MochetVelo]

I read that a transmission shop can clean an old engine block for you. Their washer won't harm the babbit. Also, if you want to neutralize rust in an engine, Evapo-Rust "Cooling System Cleaner" might work for you. According to the maker, it "Safely removes rust from engine blocks and cooling systems".

Phil

[hchris]

A word of caution, you are disturbing 70 years accumulation of buildup and corrosion.

If you are doing this with the engine in situ, no matter how hard you try, you will not clear all of it from the engine, so expect the residue to be circulating around the coolant system for months to come. Most of this will ultimately lodge in the radiator and before you know it you will have overheating problems.

To avoid this problem ensure you install a filter at the radiator inlet and ensure you clear it regularly ( one of her stockings will do ); you will be amazed how long this rubbish remains in circulation.

[Guest manitoba27stude]

Ford had a rust remover/cooling system cleaner that i find worked real well.a few years back it was primarily used at the dealership for an issue the taurus had.

[mikzjr@aol.com]

Thanks for the input, I want all the input I can get before I have to remove the water jackets.

[Guest 1968Deuce]

Am having a similar problem with a 1930 Model A.

Narrowed the overheating problem down to rust and crust in the block.

Have gone through and set the bearings, have had the radiator rebuilt, am running a six blade plastic fan, have a shroud, have converted to a pressurized system with a 7lb cap and a hot rod overflow tank, have replaced the waterpump with a modern unit, and have tried a 160 thermostat. Have also confirmed the timming is correct and that the carb is not running rich.

But to no avail. It still will run hot even if it's in the 30-40's outside with regular driving not pushing it hard at all! When pressure tested it will hold 15lbs forever and makes no pissing sounds.

Only thing I can think of is crud in the block. Am borrowing a bore scope to shove into the coolant passages to see if it will shed any light on what's going on.

Anyone have a similar problem with an A?

Anyone used CLR or other rust eaters with sucess and without finding a million holes?

Regards,

:confused:Pete

[Rusty_OToole]

My uncle told me to use CLR. He used it to cure an overheating 51 Ford flathead V8. Now some tell me it eats aluminum (not good).

The real perfect cure would be electrolysis but that's only for a bare block.

Those old engines were made with enough capacity to take a certain amount of mud and rust.

[Guest 1968Deuce]

No aluminum on my A. I think I'll Walmart it after work and pick some up.

If I find the block crudded up with the scope then I'll put it in and see if it will clean the problem.

Oh yea. My wife will be missing a stocking if I do this! Radiator cost some bucks so I'm not in the mood to clean it again.

I'll pressure wash it out back a forth a few times too for good measure.

I did the head gasket last year as it was really bad, and now it seems to be even hotter. Been an adventure as all things automotive are!

Regards,

Pete

[JFranklin]

My 1967 auto shop teacher touted SANI-FLUSH, but don't think it is available to the public any longer. maybe a janitors supply house carries it. I wouldn't use it on aluminum tho.

[MCHinson]

1968 Deuce,

Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum.

Forgive me for multiple questions and statements in no particular order... Not trying to scare you off, but hopefully you will see something that you have not checked that might lead to a solution to your problem.

I have owned multiple Model A Fords. I would try putting it back like it was originally. The studies that I have read show that the two blade fan cools better than the aftermarket fans. A 1930 Model A would not have had a radiator shroud. Does your car have engine pans? They are part of the airflow design for the Model A. Your Model A should work better without a thermostat. It was not designed to run a pressurized radiator. Does the rebuilt radiator core have as much surface area as the original? In my experience, more problems are caused by aftermarket "improvements" than are fixed by them. Have you flow tested the radiator?

Original radiators generally work well unless they are blocked or the fins are too loose to conduct heat away from the core. Many aftermarket Model A Radiator cores are inadequately sized. You might have a slight headgasket leak leaking exhaust gasses into the cooling system causing your problems. Have you confirmed that your water pump is working correctly, a slipping impeller would cause overheating. If your fan belt is loose, it will cause overheating. Valve adjustment problems can cause overheating. A muffler obstruction can cause overheating.

There are several very simple problems that could have been overlooked and drive you crazy. A fresh look at everything while putting everything back to original will probably solve your problem.

[Guest 8Straight]

I came across this thread while doing a search for Evapo-Rust. I wanted to see what other people had to say about it. At the moment I have a rear lever shock soaking in it and it seems to be working quite well, even at below the recommended 60F. I can imagine it would help to safely clean out your block and cooling system. They claim it works by chelation. Described here... Evapo-Rust Rust Remover Home .

I'm certain it will remove any rust it can get to based on my lever shock results.It probably won't help with the calcium but it might loosen up some sludge if it has a high iron content.

Here's another source I came across... VCI Corrosion Protection Store Safe Rust Remover 5 Biodegradable Rust Remover .

[old car fan]

The best cure is to have it hot tanked at a machine shop,but the babbits will be history,in the car .who knows

[Guest stude8]

If you have access to drill any broken cap screws with the engine in the car then just face the problem and remove the water jacket plates and then you can flush all the stuff you are going to find inside besides the rust with a garden hose.

I have had several 1929-30 Studebaker straight 8's that have worlds worse water jacket plates, like 36ea 5/16-18 x 3/4" cap screws that go all the way into water cavity and all rust on inside tip area. With heat, penetrating oil and prayer you still break a dozen trying to get them out, a part of life.

What worked well is I made a small drill pilot cup tool to fit around the 6 HEX cap points to be able to drill them dead center with a #36 or so drill. Then if cap head breaks you can drill them size by size up the the tap drill size and chase the threads in the block to accept a new screw. Use stainless steel replacement screws so this only needs to be done once.

Stude8

Edited December 1, 2009 by stude8 (see edit history)

[Guest 8Straight]

Hey I like the pilot centering idea!

Also wondering if, given time, the rust removal would work at the bolt ends inside the jacket.

[MochetVelo]

I've used regular Evapo-Rust and like it. It does, indeed, remove rust. Just soak your parts molre or less according to how rusty they are, but it is quite forgiving. It will even leave paint intact, so it's good for preserving the original finish, if desired. I assume the engine formula will work similarly; just be sure to get all the loose rust out first.

Phil

[Guest stude8]

This is for "8straight", here are photos of the pilot drill tool I made to drill frozen 5/16" cap screws. The tool is 3/4" steel rod 1-1/4" long with the pilot drill hole .101 #38 drill; cavity to fit over 5/16" SAE hex head is .570 ID. You can hold it by hand or use a long bar clamp from opposite side on block over top to clamp the edge of tool while you drill the pilot. Stude8

[Guest 8Straight]

I'll be using this for sure. I was thinking you could also drive a plug into a hex socket and drill a pilot sized hole on a lathe. Was just removing the underseat heater from a parts car, the pan head phillips were rusted under the car and would only back out a turn or two. If I was going to re-use the floor, I would have turned them back in snug, drilled a pilot onto the center, drilled the head off, then they would probably wind right through the bottom as soon as I started to drill into them with a smaller drill.