LennyDaVinci

Australian Dodges (history)

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Hi Ross, I went thru the mag within the link you posted above I thought in its entirety but could not find the text you posted below, what page is that to be found on ?

Page 9. Titled: "PAST EVENTS - Return to Tonslet Cruise"

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Looks like the guy on the right is gettin ready to make a pot of chili :)

Mmmmm......and I'm guessing thats not the 14 acre shed!!!

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TJ RICHARDS

I just stumbled across this info here: http://www.chrysler-restorers-sa.org.au/crcmag146.pdf . I'm not sure if this has been covered in this thread.

Opened in 1967 to meet Commonwealth government local content requirements, Chrysler signage can still be discerned on the building’s walls - even although it is today a Mitsubishi facility. By that year Chrysler had gained control of Rootes Group, acquiring its Port Melbourne plant, and was producing Hillman Minx, Gazelle and Imp cars, soon followed by the Hunter and (how many remember?) the Hustler - not to mention the

Humber Super Snipe..... "

I have not heared of the Hustler but I am very familiar with the Humber Super Snipe - lovely car. A bit off topic but you may remember The Hillman Hunter - it won the London to Sydney Marathon. :)

Ray.

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I have not heared of the Hustler but I am very familiar with the Humber Super Snipe - lovely car. A bit off topic but you may remember The Hillman Hunter - it won the London to Sydney Marathon. :)

Ray.

I do remember. IIRC a kid I went to schoolwith's mother had one. Body styling....maybe not the prettiest car ever made!

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The 1725 c.c. engine suffered with main bearing problems after a while - I remember my Dad working on one and not being over impressed. The slab sided design was quite 'with it' in the sixties; funny how tastes change!

Ray

Edited by R.White (see edit history)

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OK found the camera some pic's of T.J.Richards and Bud body numbers we have on our cars also included original delivery reciept from Harden and Johnson who were Dodge distributors in Oz. Note that the bumpers were considered as extra's also the colour ordered was Thorn Grey. As far as I am aware the locally produced Dodges followed the same colour schemes as your U.S. cars.

If someone can provide the exact location to look or a pic of the chassis number location I have 3 DA chassis and will search further for the elusive number.

Happy restoring,

Gary

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I received that book tonight from Lenny, he practically gave it to me when compared to what we have seen it advertised for when it can be found. It was appreciated very much, thanks again

post-48869-143138945615_thumb.jpg

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Dodgey,

Here are some pic's of T.J.Richards we are considering selling.

If Only I had the cash....

I don't really even have the cash to get stuck into mine at the moment. So far the cost has been a lot of internet bandwidth and one can of WD40!!!! (The vehicle came "free" with the property.)

Great pics though. Closest thing I've seen to my truck. I now know what the extra holes in the fuel tank cover are for and I'm glad to see you have the same cowl vent as me. I'm really struggling to visualise how the wooden body frame fits together. Any pics you could provide of the interior would be gold to me. Especially where the seat meets the "B" Pillar. Speaking of "B" pillars I notice yours is wide like mine and not narrow like all the other 4 door DA pics I've seen so far. I have another thread going where I am trying to address this fact but no love back yet so far.

Thanks again, Ross.

P.S. IOU works just fine for me.....;)

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This is the plate on my Australian 1927 Dodge Senior. Any idea who made the body?

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Hows this for a pic of Aussie Dodge Brothers history.

"Buckboards were made by replacing the rear of the body with a flat platform. These buckboards were a feauture of many Aussie farms well into the '60's. The particular car was owned by a fencing contractor, and was retired to the National Motor Museum in 1974. It has been kept in the same condition."

For more "buckboard" action go here: http://forums.aaca.org/f148/ultimate-thread-about-buckboards-327583.html

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While I would never pretend to be an authority on the subject, I have been a Dodge owner & enthusiast for about 45 years & I still own the 1933 Dodge DP 3 window Coupe that I bought in 1967. I have owned more than a few since then.

As to this thread, I believe that, initially, Dodge cars were shipped to various state distributors as complete RHD export models. These State distributors would have set up their own dealer networks.

My own knowledge, such as it is, will be essentially confined to the state of New South Wales & the original Sydney based distributor was [i believe] Dalgetty & Co

It would appear that a large brass plate [dinner plate shaped] was provided by Dodge Bros to both the Sydney & Melbourne distributors in 1915 & I was fortunate enough to have secured the Sydney plate in trade for some 32 Ford stuff about 30 years ago.

This plate is essentially a 14" diameter replica of the Dodge radiator badge with the map of the world re-oriented to show Australia & the words "DODGE BROTHERS MOTOR CARS" appearing as a silver inlay around the flange of the plate.

The cities of Detroit, Sydney & Jerusalem are indicated by silver dots in the apprporiate places on the copper inlay that the map is made from, & they are named.

I believe that the other plate differs only in the substitution of Melbourne instead of Sydney.

The distributorship seems to passed to the hands of others quite early & it may have done so several times before residing with Harden & Jonstone in Sydney who remained as the state distributor untill the formation of Chrysler Australia after WW2 when they became the state distributor for Chrysler products generally.

It is my belief that the Australian government passed a law in about 1917 that said that 2/3rds of all imported cars must be fitted with an Australian manufactured body.

This would account for the Budd bodies on my 1915 & 1917 Dodge touring cars.

This law allowed for the importation of models that had very low demand & would otherwise have been uneconomic to manufacture.

During the 20's these body makers were turning out the popular Touring & Roadster bodies in quantity while closed car models were, initially, fully imported.

As closed car bodies became more popular from about 1930 they steadily became the staple of local production, however, for whatever reason some popular models have still shown up as fully imported cars, such as my 1933 DP [long wheelbase] Sedan.

Models in the 1920's that I have owned seem to have been equiped with bodies that were supplied by various contracted body manufacturers & in each case the radiator assembly, bonnet [hood] mudguards [fenders] & cowl were a of US manufacture.

When Chrysler acquired Dodge in 1928 the situation here changed as the Plymouth distributor was a competitor to the Dodge brand & as the depression bit it became necessary for the Dodge distributors, who must have been in close connexion to each othe to find ways to boost sales.

By 1932 TJ Richards was manufacturing bodies for Dodge & DeSoto distributors nationally while Chrysler & Plymouth bodies were made by Holden Body Builders P/L

In 1932 the bodies differed very little from their US bretherin but in 1933 ways that eased manufacture of these coachbuilt bodies [wood frame with metal skin] were implemented & the rounded lower corners of closed car windscreens are the most obvious.

By 1933 it had been decided that a lower cost model was necessary & this was achieved by fitting a 'poverty pack' version of the standard body to the HC Commercial Car chassis. These were quite popular & are the most frequently seen version of the 1933 model in Australia. The owners manual was the HC Commercial Car version.

This model was sold as the DQ & it differed in all but external appearance to the Canadian DQ which was simply a down spec'd version of the US & Canadian DP.

This theme was repeated for 1934 with an updated DP body [it had a ducktail like the DR on Sedans & a revised rear wheel arch shape to accomodate the slightly changed KC rear fender] on the KC Commercial Car chassis & without an unused model code to apply, these were marketed as the KCD. These were again the most popular models, outselling the 1934 DR by a substantial margin & they allowed the Dodge distributors & dealers to survive the worst of the depression.

The 1943 DS was not offered in Austrlia however one or two examples seem to have made it here anyway as the distributors could import any model for special customers or themselves if desired.

In 1933, in an effort to keep costs under control, it was decided to produce body styles that 'sold' in Australia rather than to rigidly duplicate the US range & this is the reason that Richards produced the low cost Roadster & the Tourer while the 3 window coupe design was adopted as it used a number of the 1932 model's pressings, particularly the rear of the roof & the doors which were modified at the leading edge to conform to the cowl/door opening & the rear hinge that was new for 1933.

1933 & 1934 Two Door Sedans, Convertible Coupes, Broughams, & Closed Cab commercial bodies that duplicated the US types were not made in Australia.

Pickups were also not made but a similar Australian design, the Roadster Utility, was available on the Commercial Car chassis with an open car cowl & mid length doors. [Roadster, Utility, Touring, longest to shortest doors.]

The Touring body must have been a slow seller & stocks of body panels must have remained at the factory as the Touring was still available on the Commercial chassis for several years & an example with the 1935/36 commercial cowl [front hinges] has been recently recovered with an early DP tub section.

It is my understanding that by about 1934, TJ Richards became owned, in part at least, by Chrysler Corp & from 1935 they manufactured all of the Airstream bodies that were used on the four main Chrysler Corp brands from then onwards.

Again, the limited sale models like the Airflow & the expensive Chrysler models were fully imported.

Richard continued to manufacture bodies for others such as Studebaker untill at least the outbreak of WW2 in late 1939 & for all I know, for a few years after.

Hopefully this long winded tome has added a few snippets of knowledge to the overall fund of knowledge that this thread was created for.

Edited by DP_3Window
Correction of spelling error (see edit history)

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For those that are curious, two 1933 Dodge Model DQ 3 window coupes.

The stock example at rear is a business model with a 'boot' [trunk] while the red car is a rumble seat version.

My DP uses an identical body but it came with a bigger 6 cylinder engine [201 cid vs 189 cid] & more features.

post-86385-143139073761_thumb.jpg

Thanks to my friend Dirk for the picture which was shot not all that far from the old TJ Richards factory.

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While I would never pretend to be an authority on the subject, I have been a Dodge owner & enthusiast for about 45 years & I still own the 1933 Dodge DP 3 window Coupe that I bought in 1967. I have owned more than a few since then.

As to this thread, I believe that, initially, Dodge cars were shipped to various state distributors as complete RHD export models. These State distributors would have set up their own dealer networks.

My own knowledge, such as it is, will be essentially confined to the state of New South Wales & the original Sydney based distributor was [i believe] Dalgetty & Co

It would appear that a large brass plate [dinner plate shaped] was provided by Dodge Bros to both the Sydney & Melbourne distributors in 1915 & I was fortunate enough to have secured the Sydney plate in trade for some 32 Ford stuff about 30 years ago.

This plate is essentially a 14" diameter replica of the Dodge radiator badge with the map of the world re-oriented to show Australia & the words "DODGE BROTHERS MOTOR CARS" appearing as a silver inlay around the flange of the plate.

The cities of Detroit, Sydney & Jerusalem are indicated by silver dots in the apprporiate places on the copper inlay that the map is made from, & they are named.

I believe that the other plate differs only in the substitution of Melbourne instead of Sydney.

The distributorship seems to passed to the hands of others quite early & it may have done so several times before residing with Harden & Jonstone in Sydney who remained as the state distributor untill the formation of Chrysler Australia after WW2 when they became the state distributor for Chrysler products generally.

It is my belief that the Australian government passed a law in about 1917 that said that 2/3rds of all imported cars must be fitted with an Australian manufactured body.

This would account for the Budd bodies on my 1915 & 1917 Dodge touring cars.

This law allowed for the importation of models that had very low demand & would otherwise have been uneconomic to manufacture.

During the 20's these body makers were turning out the popular Touring & Roadster bodies in quantity while closed car models were, initially, fully imported.

As closed car bodies became more popular from about 1930 they steadily became the staple of local production, however, for whatever reason some popular models have still shown up as fully imported cars, such as my 1933 DP [long wheelbase] Sedan.

Models in the 1920's that I have owned seem to have been equiped with bodies that were supplied by various contracted body manufacturers & in each case the radiator assembly, bonnet [hood] mudguards [fenders] & cowl were a of US manufacture.

When Chrysler acquired Dodge in 1928 the situation here changed as the Plymouth distributor was a competitor to the Dodge brand & as the depression bit it became necessary for the Dodge distributors, who must have been in close connexion to each othe to find ways to boost sales.

By 1932 TJ Richards was manufacturing bodies for Dodge & DeSoto distributors nationally while Chrysler & Plymouth bodies were made by Holden Body Builders P/L

In 1932 the bodies differed very little from their US bretherin but in 1933 ways that eased manufacture of these coachbuilt bodies [wood frame with metal skin] were implemented & the rounded lower corners of closed car windscreens are the most obvious.

By 1933 it had been decided that a lower cost model was necessary & this was achieved by fitting a 'poverty pack' version of the standard body to the HC Commercial Car chassis. These were quite popular & are the most frequently seen version of the 1933 model in Australia. The owners manual was the HC Commercial Car version.

This model was sold as the DQ & it differed in all but external appearance to the Canadian DQ which was simply a down spec'd version of the US & Canadian DP.

This theme was repeated for 1934 with an updated DP body [it had a ducktail like the DR on Sedans & a revised rear wheel arch shape to accomodate the slightly changed KC rear fender] on the KC Commercial Car chassis & without an unused model code to apply, these were marketed as the KCD. These were again the most popular models, outselling the 1934 DR by a substantial margin & they allowed the Dodge distributors & dealers to survive the worst of the depression.

The 1943 DS was not offered in Austrlia however one or two examples seem to have made it here anyway as the distributors could import any model for special customers or themselves if desired.

In 1933, in an effort to keep costs under control, it was decided to produce body styles that 'sold' in Australia rather than to rigidly duplicate the US range & this is the reason that Richards produced the low cost Roadster & the Tourer while the 3 window coupe design was adopted as it used a number of the 1932 model's pressings, particularly the rear of the roof & the doors which were modified at the leading edge to conform to the cowl/door opening & the rear hinge that was new for 1933.

1933 & 1934 Two Door Sedans, Convertible Coupes, Broughams, & Closed Cab commercial bodies that duplicated the US types were not made in Australia.

Pickups were also not made but a similar Australian design, the Roadster Utility, was available on the Commercial Car chassis with an open car cowl & mid length doors. [Roadster, Utility, Touring, longest to shortest doors.]

The Touring body must have been a slow seller & stocks of body panels must have remained at the factory as the Touring was still available on the Commercial chassis for several years & an example with the 1935/36 commercial cowl [front hinges] has been recently recovered with an early DP tub section.

It is my understanding that by about 1934, TJ Richards became owned, in part at least, by Chrysler Corp & from 1935 they manufactured all of the Airstream bodies that were used on the four main Chrysler Corp brands from then onwards.

Again, the limited sale models like the Airflow & the expensive Chrysler models were fully imported.

Richard continued to manufacture bodies for others such as Studebaker untill at least the outbreak of WW2 in late 1939 & for all I know, for a few years after.

Hopefully this long winded tome has added a few snippets of knowledge to the overall fund of knowledge that this thread was created for.

Thanks for adding to this thread, alot of great info, would it be possible to post a picture of the platter ( if you do not know how than send them to jhason2@yahoo.com and I can either post them here or enjoy them privately, your prefrence ) and also I would like a better picture of your avatar, is that you as young boy?

I do enjoy these pictures

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DP_3 Window that is some great info. Would you happen to have any knowledge of chassis/frame numbers on vehicles imported into Australia? I have talked to a few people, and myself included, that don't seem to have one stamped on their chassis. Mine is a '29 DA TJR body and I'm wondering if there were some chassis that were not marked for some reason.

Thanks :)

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1930.

it might be a little while to get a picture of the plate as it is in another house with my ex but I will endeavour to retrieve it ASAP. It is in storage in the study.

I am not particularly new to online forums so I should not have any problems posting a picture once I get to snaping the photo.

The avatar picture was taken in about November 1967 at a girlfriends house & I had owned the car for a few months. I was 18 years old at the time & yes, I still have the car. I am now fast heading for my 63rd birthday & I am preparing to install the sixth engine, .... a 1957 Dodge 325 Hemi.

Dodgy6.

My 1939 Dodge Master Parts book covers all models from 1929 to 1939 & it shows ALL the serial numbers for those years including the Canadian export models.

Additionally my copy of Grace Bringhams book "Early Car Serial Numbers, 1910 to 1942" lists not only the serials but also their location so I will need to dig that one out of storage & see if I can get back with that info.

In the last 45 years I have been able to account for not more than 37 of the 1933 [DQ & DP] & 1934 [KCD] 3 window Coupes & I watched two of them destroyed on the speedway back in 1967. Since then a few of this number seem to have vanished from the face of the earth

Additionally, two partial bodies along with the right rear quarter of a KCD roadster were combined to make one Coupe body so the number of survivors is not particularly high.

Once I get a new power supply into my desktop computer I will be able to access my stash of images & I will be able to present an image of a 1943 KCD 'Composite Coupe'.

If it had been a Ford it would have been called a Sport Coupe & like the Ford it had a fixed [non folding] roof [top]

Unlike the Ford it was not fitted with the dummy Landau irons as this was a basic low cost model for commercial travelers & the like. It was available with a boot [trunk] or Rumble Seat.

I also have the only known copy of an Australian 1933 Dodge sales brochure. It's in poor condition but with some luck I will be able to get it reproduced. Strangely, the front page illustration is a rear 3/4 view of a Convertible Coupe with the top down. It was a model not sold in Australia & apparently photographs were not suitable for use in brochures so illustrators were used as they could "enhance" whatever features the advertising department wanted.

These days they use photoshop.

EDIT

The Composite Coupe refered to above is a 1934 KCD, ...... not 1943

Thanks for the help TJ

Edited by DP_3Window
Correction of typo (see edit history)

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Fascinating thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. I'm in the process of buying a '24 that originally went to Oz.

rgds, Richard

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Fascinating thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. I'm in the process of buying a '24 that originally went to Oz.

rgds, Richard

Have any pictures?

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Hi Richard - I have replied to your Email.

Hi Jason, I think Richard will be posting photos here when the car arrives shortly.

Ray.

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[ATTACH=CONFIG]144030[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]144031[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]144032[/ATTACH]

Here is a very nice Short Wheel Base Australian 1933 Dodge 3 window Coupe, photos were taken at the Bay to Birdwood run.

I would LOVE to see more photos of the maroon '36 Dodge Rumble Seat Convertible Coupe next to this lovely green '33! Don't see those over here!

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I would LOVE to see more photos of the maroon '36 Dodge Rumble Seat Convertible Coupe next to this lovely green '33! Don't see those over here!

Looks like a 1937 to me.....the grille bars are horizontal.

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Just as good! Either way photos would be cool!

Ho!y crap John! You have some good eyes!

Yea, the hood side trim is '37 and interestingly, the doors have three hinges! Must be a Convertible Coupe feature.

(I gotta blow these photos up more often! There are all kinds of neat things you can see!)

Edited by 1936 D2 (see edit history)

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Hi all,

My Dodge was delivered yesterday (seen below at the vendor's storage site prior to delivery). Overall it seems in good order, the water pump is leaking as is the manifold/exhaust downpipe joint (and possibly where it bolts to the engine), and some of the wiring to the lights needs investigation. It looks like an older restoration, so has a few scuffs and scars which kind of suits it I think. The plate on the dash is for the Waymouth Motor Company Limited of Adelaide, presumably the supplying dealer? Can anyone shed light on who might have done the body on it?

thanks, Richard.

dodgecar1.jpg

dodgecar2.jpg

Edited by occrj (see edit history)

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