230 & 367 MPG

[Guest DagoRed]

These are the non certified MPG claims for the Chevy Volt ($40K) and the Nissan Leaf ($28K) respectively. Boon or boondoggle...??

[Packard enthus.]

What are the COMBINED ecological issues ? Let's discuss a car that gets, say 20 mpg by burning gasoline. Now we compare it with the so called "hi-breds" and/or full electric cars.

Is it correct to assume it takes energy to move mass thru time and space ? If that is correct, dosn't the hi-bred and/or full electric car use the same amount of energy for a comporable vehicle ? If that assumption is correct, where does 1) the energy to move the hi-bred and/or full electric car come from ? How is it generated ? Are there energy loss consequences in supply energy to, and using it in electric motors ? 2) are there ecology consequences in creating the components of these hi-breds and/or full electric cars - for example, what about the batteries and sophisticated control mechanisms ? Dosnt creating them involve some ecology issues ?

Is this another "mommie...the emperor dosn't have any clothes on"....situation...?

[Reatta Man]

It depends......

I haven't seen the speed at which these cars can travel for the claimed maximum range. For example, if it will do up to 60 MPH for up to 100 miles on all or nearly all electric (battery) power, this is quite an accomplishment. Getting 230 MPG is not a big deal if you can only go 30-40 miles without a manditory plug-in for a recharge.

Anything less in terms of top speed or range will severly limit the car's appeal to the widest possible potential pool of buyers.

Of course, the other problems are appearing to be promised availability. With only a few thousand cars available per month spread over several thousand dealers, you also have to factor in dealer greed, which means some or most dealers will be trying to sell the cars for several thousands of dollars over MSRP. And, some dealers may not embrace the car at all, because that means they will have to have the equipment and trained techs on hand to service the cars. (I've actually had a Mercury dealer try to talk me OUT of considering a Mariner hybrid because he didn't want to have to work on it!)

And, you must factor in the cost of gas at the time the car goes on sale. At $2.50 per gallon as it is now in most of the country at a $40,000 list with dealers adding several thousands of dollars for overinflated 'sealant' and 'fabric protection' packages, it will land on dealer lots with little more than a thud, a little media curiosity and bought up by those with LOTS of disposable income who just must have the latest gadget. But, at $4-5 per gallon, you have a totally new ball game, with people signing up on a waiting list and gladly paying over sticker price for the car.

Add to that initial reliability and consumer reviews. With Detroit's spotty reputation for new car introductions and technology, if the car is not spot-on perfect from day 1, the reviews can severly hurt the car.

The bottom line is this: we're witnessing a whole new area for GM; if they get it right, they win. If they don't deliver on every promise the car could be a dud and die off in only a few years after coming on the market.

Joe

[joe_padavano]

My first reaction is that GM is setting themselves up for another fall. These numbers may come from the EPA rating guidelines, but I suspect that in the real world the average driver will get substantially lower mileage. When that happens, the internet will be filled with the wrath of owners scorned. Think Vega and Olds diesel.

Then again, maybe GM intends to do for plug-in hybrids what it did for diesel engines...