Scottish Engine in a Pierce-Arrow?

[Argyll]

I'm currently researching the Scottish vehicle manufacturer "Argyll", who was a significant player in the early 1900's motor industry in the UK with their excellent motor cars and light trucks.

Recently I've come across a single paragraph reference in a motoring historians extensive notes that -

"In 1913 an Argyll engine (single sleeve-valve) of the 25/50 HP type was sent over to the U.S.A. and was subject to extensive tests in a Pierce-Arrow lorry (truck), but does not seem to have been followed up."

May I ask please, is this something that's well known within P-A circles, or is it a relatively obscure fact?

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Argyll.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Argyll (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

I'm no Pierce Arrow expert but have been reading about antique cars extensively for 40 years and I never heard of it.

Pierce did build a few all aluminum engines and cars in the late 20s. An Englishman was behind that project but I don't remember the details.

Pierce's chief engineer was a Scot named Ferguson. Perhaps he had some connection to Argyll. This is purely speculative but might be worth looking into.

Pierce introduced an all new twin valve six cylinder engine in 1918. 1913 would be a logical time for them to be testing out new ideas.

[Ivan Saxton]

Pierce did build a few all aluminum engines and cars in the late 20s. An Englishman was behind that project but I don't remember the details.

The aluminium car project was a cooperative effort of Alcoa and Pierce Arrow, and the English engineer was the distinguished Laurence Pomeroy, designer of notable Vauxhalls including the "Prince Henry"and the 30/98.

Almost everything that could reasonably be made of aluminium alloy was. I think it is somewhere in my written references that there were both 4 and 6 cylinder prototypes, which were quite satisfactory though Pierce never commercialised the designs, probably because the increased material cost would have made them an unattractive buy. However the last of the 1927 Series 80 Pierce Arrows were sold with duralumin conrods and a slightly higher compression ratio aluminium head before these became standard on the re-designed Series 81. This would probably mean the project happened around 1926-7. I had a couple of late 1927 Series 80's, but they had steel conrods and cast iron head (one was serial# 8015835 and the other very close to that from memory; so the alteration must have been very late).

The single sleeve valve engine was invented simultaneously yet independantly by a Canadian and a Scottsman, Burt and McCollum. It may have been that P-A were persuaded to try out the design by the Canadian. These engines had a lot of substantial advantages as developed for aircraft leading up to WW2 by Bristol and Napier, and the Tempest fighter powered by the 24 H type Napier Sabre engine was able to overtake the German flying bombs and was capable of higher power output reliably that the racing versions of another English engine could sustain for only minutes.

[bruffsup]

Did Argyll then hold the patent for the single sleeve valve engine? I find this interesting as you are no doubt aware of Barr and Stroud who manufactured such engines for motorbikes right there in Glasgow. I know of a New Old Sock 1000cc vee twin Barr and Stroud engine and have been trying to pry it loose so I can build a replica Brough Superior as Brough did so many years ago.

[Argyll]

Apologies in the delay in replying Barry, I was on vacation in Florida checking out old Chevys.

Yes, Argyll held the full patent by 1912 having bought the rights of McCollums patent from him, a remarkable story in itself. That full patent however appears to have been under some form of supervisory control by Peter Burt as he went on to sell experimental and full manufacturing licences after Argyll's final liquidation in 1914. And as Ivor has correctly mentioned the SSV design make its way into a number of British military aircraft, also including the Wellington bomber, Beaufighter and Typhoon.

A Barr & Stroud SSV engine is a very rare item nowadays, so if it is a SSV type I wish you luck in your quest, certainly from my view it would be well worth owning just the engine itself.

And thank you to the other contributors in this thread, your input is much appreciated also.

[Rusty_OToole]

To add a little more to the story, chief engineer Ferguson published some information on how he came to design the Pierce Dual Valve engine. I read it about 30 years ago but never forgot it.

The inspiration for the design came from the first generation of V8 luxury cars from Cadillac and others that came on the market for 1915. They had nearly as much power as the Pierce six even though they were much smaller in displacement, not to mention size and weight.

Ferguson considered making a V8 but rejected the idea. At that stage of development, the V8 was not as smooth running as a six cylinder. The V8 had a 4 cylinder type secondary vibration and also had problems getting even carburetion and smooth low speed running. These problems were not solved until 1923, 10 years after the first V8s were put on the market.

So he took another look at the 6 cylinder. A straight six is inherently smooth. It has the smallest number of cylinders that have perfect primary and secondary balance, and overlapping power impulses. This is why so many luxury car makers stuck with the big 6 concept for so long.

Further analysis revealed that the V8s had a valve area very large in relation to their displacement. Not surprising as they had 16 valves where the six had only 12.

To get the same valve area in relation to displacement the Pierce would have required valves 3" in diameter. This was impracticable due to the excess weight, and cooling problems that would inevitably lead to burning and warping of the exhaust valve.

Next he considered 2 valves of 1 1/2" diameter. This would give the required breathing improvement and would not require a cam lift of over 3/8" which he considered the maximum consistent with silence and long life.

An experimental engine with the dual valves gave a 40% increase in power. Not only that but the small valves and accompanying light valve springs, made the valve action practically noiseless , and reduced friction and wear in the whole valve train.

The Dual Valve Six debuted in 1918 and powered the big Pierce Arrow for the next ten years. It earned a great reputation for unfailing power, silence and long life. It is said that rum runners used Pierce engines in their speed boats because nothing else could match them for power, reliability and silent running.

So Ferguson was definitely looking for a solution to the breathing problem, and the valve troubles that were an everyday fact of motoring life back then. He may well have considered the sleeve valve engine. The sleeve valve was something new on the market as of 1909 and had considerable vogue among European luxury car makers like the English Daimler and Belgian Minerva, Scottish Argyll and later the French Voisin among others. It would not be surprising if he bought a sleeve valve engine for evaluation purposes.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Argyll]

Thanks for this Rusty - interesting read, not to mention giving a excellent insight into the way things developed with P-A engines.

I would agree 100% with your final sentence as I was surprised just how many companies bought an "evaluation" engine or licence for these remarkable engines.

Argyll.