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who had in dash air conditioning first ?


PONTIAC1953

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i have read that the 1954 nash had the first in dash, up front, factory air conditioning. but have never been informed as to what date did nash introduce their air conditioning system, i do know when the 1954 pontiac production started, and i do know when the harrison division of general motors sent to pontiac in 1953, the first ten air conditioning systems to be installed into 1954 pontiac starchief models. it is my strong belief, that pontiac, not nash, has the position of being the first american automobile with factory in dash air conditioning. please let me know if dated information about the 1954 nash air conditioning, thanks, charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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Guest bkazmer

The 1940 Packard system that introduced AC has dash controls (admittedly, very little was controlled, but the knob is right there with the others) but a cabin air inlet in the package shelf. I think the important postwar refinement in AC was temperature regulation (several methods) rather than where to run the ducting.

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Guest Skyking
it is my strong belief, that pontiac, not nash, has the position of being the first american automobile with factory in dash air conditioning. QUOTE]

Nash also had the best position to be the first due to being incorporated with Kelvinator. I can't find any info in my Nash books as to the date.

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Nash had so called "air conditioning" in 1940. But this was not the modern air conditioning, it was a heating and ventilating system integrated into the dash of the car as opposed to the old heater box under the dash.

Nash's next big advance was to integrate the modern type of air conditioning (refrigeration type) into the dash board and cowl area.

Until then all air conditioners went into the trunk. The controls were on the instrument panel and the pump and condenser were under the hood but the evaporator was in the trunk with ducts coming up thru the back package shelf.

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Here is a picture of the interior of my 1955 Pontiac Safari 2-door wagon, which had to be one of GM's early factory installed air conditioning systems.

If you look closely at the right side of the dash, you will see that the car came equipped with factory air - which had to be a rare option at the time. The previous owner changed the old air conditioning pump, etc. to "Vintage Air", yet used all of the existing outlets, thus preserving the original look from inside the car. This installation was very professionally installed and I appreciate the work that went into this changeover. The previous owner made a good choice, as it blows ice cold air without a problem.

Does anyone know if Pontiac had factory air prior to 1955, and if so, when? Also any idea of how many 1955 Pontiac Safaris were equipped with factory air? I was told that this option was very rare for my car.

Fred

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hi, packard did start offering air conditioning in 1940, in 1953, cadillac, buick, and oldsmobile all started the option of fridgeaire rear air conditioning, during 1953, harrison division of GM, decided to compete with fridgeaire. harrison had known robert critchfield long before he was promoted to the head of pontiac in 1952. harrison asked mr critchfield if he wanted pontiac to have the air conditioning system that didn't use any trunk space, he said yes, as this fell right into his plan to evevate the luxury of owning a pontiac, mr critchfield had already started this with the 1953 pontiacs having as options things like power steering, autronic eye, power brakes-late 1953, if oldsmobile and buick hadn't cried about the new pontiac V8 slated for introduction in 1953, making them likely to lose alot of customers. the 1953 pontiacs would have had the V8 then also. getting back to the up front, in dash, factory air conditioning topic, it's interesting that oldsmobile in 1955, buick in 1956, cadillac in 1957, moved to up front air. and the 1955 oldsmobiles used the same evaporator core as pontiac had used in 1954. to the 1955 safari owner, when i can find my notes on air conditioning production fiqures that i have from harrison, i'll post them here, i know that your air was a $431.00 option, in 1954, it was more than $600.00, and amounted to less than one percent of 1954 pontiac production, which was just over 257,000 cars. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor, poci.

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Packard was the first with refrigerated air conditioning, introduced in 1939 on the 1940 models, but this was not through the dash. Ducting was from the trunk through the package shelf as bkasmer points out. I believe the question revolves around 'in-dash' air conditioning.

The '53 Oldsmobile above looks like it has a factory air installation but I think it's also an in-trunk system. I believe I see air intakes at the rear of the car and what looks like one of those 'clear' plastic ducts coming from the package shelf.

Edited by JD in KC
adding comment re: '53 Oldsmobile (see edit history)
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Packard was the first with refrigerated air conditioning, introduced in 1939 on the 1940 models, but this was not through the dash. Ducting was from the trunk through the package shelf as bkasmer points out. I believe the question revolves around 'in-dash' air conditioning.

The '53 Oldsmobile above looks like it has a factory air installation but I think it's also an in-trunk system. I believe I see air intakes at the rear of the car and what looks like one of those 'clear' plastic ducts coming from the package shelf.

You are correct on both counts.

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Guest bkazmer

The AC design doesn't move from "in-trunk" to "in-dash." The mechanical components(compressor, evaporator, condensor) are either split between the trunk and engine compartment, or all in the engine compartment, not in the dash. The cool air is blown in through dash outlets in "in-dash" AC, to differentiate it from aftermarket AC which typically was not connected to the factory ducting. I think the important post war advances in AC had to do with regulating the air temperature.

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You, too, are correct. The prewar air conditioners used a compressor that did not have a clutch. If the fan belt to the compressor was on, the air conditioner was on. The only way to turn off the air conditioner was to take off the belt. Which is why so many of the factory equipped prewar cars were often fitted with extra heaters. My car has an extra heater in the back, plus the Deluxe version in the front that also acted as a window defogger.

The original unit that was delivered in late 1939, early 1940, had an extra heater built into the evaporator box in the trunk. That was later deleted, and an extra heater was installed inside the car.

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Guest bkazmer

was that heater in the trunk box also meant to prevent icing of the evaporator? if the second heater is the usual Packard one under the front passenger's seat, it will help the cabin temp, but serve the icing.

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  • 1 year later...

when harrison design the first up front, in dash air conditioning during the year 1953, bkazmer, the design was changed from everyone else's layout of the major parts of a/c. nobody before harrison had design a driver controlled compressor clutch, in 1953 cadillacs, buicks, and oldsmobiles with factory a/c from frigidaire had a no clutch frigidaire rotary compressor, the compressor known in the a/c business as "the fat boy", 1953 buicks had the a/c controls built in the dash above the steering coluum, in between the two round instrumentation housing, as where cadillac and oldsmobile used a potmetal control bezel that mounted under the dash. olds went to in dash controls in 1955, cadillac not till 1957. so this all means that the 1954 pontiacs with factory a/c was first with built in dash outlets, evaporator core, housing, and blower motor up front. as stated before when it comes to factory up front, in dash air conditioning, 1954 pontiac was first, 1954 nash was second, 1955 oldsmobile was third, with 1955 chevy right on old's tail, buick switch to front a/c in 1956, cadillac in 1957. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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Nash - Kelvinator had what was called weather eye they swapped with GM heating system to create the true in dash AC wich was presented in 1952-53. First production on assembly line cars was in 1954. Find a Nash-Kelvinator engineer and he will veryfy it. Nash and Kelvenator merged in the early 1950s. This was well known in Kenosha Wi. were Nash were being built.

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hello 51dyno, please give more details about this "swapped", yes nash was using some GM parts, such as hydra-matic transmissions, but i can assure you, GM didn't use any nash parts at all. the nash factory air conditioning didn't come out untill the summer of 1954, AFTER the forming of american motors (the merging of nash and hudson) i have a copy of the 1954 nash a/c manual, it wasn't printed untill may of 1954. i can also assure you that both frigidaire and harrison didn't have anything to do with kelvinator. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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I should not have used the swapped:::the three worked together on the development on the new design.All three contributed to the end product .Sorry if you thougt that I ment nash built parts for gm. And remember nash was not doing so great at the time, my info came from people inside the plant who also taught at that time , we had evening voational shool.

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Who had the first in dash components like heater core/ evaporator, air distribution tubes and controls all at or behind the dash inside the car from the factory? When you say IN dash that is what I'm thinking.

Edited by helfen (see edit history)
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hi 51dyno, you said the three worked together, harrison, frigidaire, & kelvinator ?, that is not true at all, they were all competitors, trying to give the buying public a product that was better than the other's product. there was airtemp also (chrysler). hi helfen, to your question, the answer is the 1954 nash set up, since the 1954 pontiac set up still used the underseat heater set up for heating, a very good system cause it place the heater core in the center of the car's floorboard, and heated the car's interior evenly. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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Guest bkazmer

The only thing that moved "in-dash" was the cool air ducting. The controls were always there. The mechanical components still aren't. The operating principle is constant (same P-h and T-s cycles). The important changes were in control of the air temperature, not where it occurred, IMO

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well bkazmer, there you go again, being incorrect, more than just " the cool air ducting" was moved. the evaporator, the housing, the thermal expansion valve, the blower motors, the ducting, and the outlets were moved from the package tray/trunk area to the firewall and the dash. and bkazmer, in the 1953 cadillac there was a control knob back on the package tray a/c cover, so "the controls were always there" is incorrect also. so please bkazmer, stop being incorrect with your input in my postings about early automotive air conditioning. thank you, charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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Charles, are you saying that the 54 Pontiac had the evaporator inside the car. My 69 Pontiac /76 Olds has it outside plus the blower assy. In fact on many GM cars you must remove the rt. front fender to get to the blower.

I was just wondering who had the first A/C INSIDE the car so you would have the blower box attached to the evaporator box and the evaporator box attached to the heater box and from there to the distribution box for a/c vent/ heat blown air, and if you need to remove those components they would come out from under the dash.

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hi helfen, the 1954 pontiac evaporator housing was mounted on the backside of the right inner fender, right next to where you would see the lower bracket for the right hood hinge spring, then there is a 4 inch insulated hose that curved thru the cowl and came in through the rightside kick panel to a firewall mounted air distribution manifold, there was three hoses that went from the manifold to the three dash outlets. what had been the right fresh air vent, was removed, and a/c metal ducting was installed to allow the driver to adjust how much of the air would now be recirculated. the nash evaporator was actually mounted inside the car, mostly up under the dash, with an access panel. the nash unit was quite compact, so that air went through the heater core first before it went through the evaporator core, and then on to the two blower motors before getting to the two dash mounted outlet doors. the large pontiac a/c blower was mounted right behind the right headlight bucket, pushing alot of air through a metal tube toward the evaporator core inlet, but not before going through an air filter first. later in mid 1954, pontiac moved the filter to the radiator support panel, so the air was filtered now before going through the blower fan. and pontiac dealers were told to make sure every 1954 pontiac a/c buyer went home with an insect screen that covered the entire radiator grill openning, insuring that the condenser stay clear and free of bugs and leaves. i'll post some pictures to show you all that i talk about, thanks, charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

Edited by pontiac1953
correction to the flow of air in the nash system (see edit history)
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Thanks for the pictures Charles. I can see why some people say Nash is first IN dash, but I think the correct term they are looking for is first in consolidated components under the dash IN the cabin. Picture 3 shows what many cars are using today. I know all Datsun/Nissans have been that way since the first factory units in 1974. I can pull a Nissan/ Infiniti unit (evaporator) down in a fraction of the time than I can on my 69 Pontiac. One of the smallest, but biggest mistakes people have with the GM units like on my 69 Pontiac is when installing the evaporator they either kink or smash the small oil drainback tube.

Anyroad thanks Charles, your quite a historian!

Don

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Charles, I would be interested in seeing pictures of your 53's A/C install. Is your car up and running? I would also like to see that 287 in there. I'm curious about how it is mounted since until the 1959 model with the 389 engine, all 58 and earlier do not have block motor mount provision. Even though this is AACA I do think this proposition is intriguing.

Don

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hi don, you're right about the mounting being different than 59 and newer, pontiac and oldsmobile were the same, having one engine mount at the bottom of the timing cover, and two (left &right) bell housing mounts. no, my car isn't yet up and running, and my progress is slow. the 53-54 frames were design to accept the new 287 V8, but the holes weren't drilled in the frame for anything other than the straight eight and sixes. the pictures show the 287/hydra-matic i brought back from georgia in 1994, and after i started detailing it, then sitting in the 53's frame, and pictures of the 54 starchief in austin, texas that i got the air conditioning out of, showing the four inch hole where the insulated hose carried the air from the evaporator assembly to the air manifold inside the car. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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Thanks for sharing,

Looks like you settled for 57 valve covers finally. Guess your grateful Pontiac had already changed the chassis for the V-8. I was talking to a guy at our Saturday morning car get together who had a SBC in his 53 Chevy. He was showing me the modifications to the steering to get the engine to fit.

don

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hi don, yes those are 57 valve covers, you notice in the pictures showing the engine on my little trailer, it had chrome 389 valve covers, what it will have when i'm done is 55-56 valve covers that are chrome, nos, in original gm boxes, but i suspect they are cal custom made covers. i ended up having to move the generator closer to the A5 compressor, so the generator wouldn't hit the right inner fender, and using a double idler pulley to drive the generator. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

Edited by pontiac1953 (see edit history)
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hi don, yes those are 57 valve covers, you notice in the pictures showing the engine on my little trailer, it had chrome 389 valve covers, what it will have when i'm done is 55-56 valve covers that are chrome, nos, in original gm boxes, but i suspect they are cal custom made covers. i ended up having to move the generator closer to the A5 compressor, so the generator wouldn't hit the right inner fender, and using a double idler pulley to drive the generator. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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Charles, sorry to get a little off topic, What are cal custom valve covers? Do these covers have the aluminum plate spot welded to the cover saying " Pontiac Strato Streak V-8"?? I would love to buy the original type 55-56 and the 57 Pontiac script type. Wondering if they would fit a 67 "670" 428 head with a 1/4" aluminum cover spacer?

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hi don, cal custom is the short name for california custom company, which made aftermarket dress up engine and car parts. these chrome valve covers have no stratostreak name plate riveted to the covers like the stock 55-56 covers do. i'll send you the 57 covers i have that are still on the 287, and you can try them, if you want them, their your's to keep. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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hi don, cal custom is the short name for california custom company, which made aftermarket dress up engine and car parts. these chrome valve covers have no stratostreak name plate riveted to the covers like the stock 55-56 covers do. i'll send you the 57 covers i have that are still on the 287, and you can try them, if you want them, their your's to keep. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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Charles, Thank you for the offer, you are most generous! However I would prefer to pay you for them and shipping for the going rate of Pontiac VC's. PM me with a address to send to if you are willing.

Don

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