Original, Or Not?

[joeinbcs]

Hi All,

I'm considering doing a few things to my car, but don't want to look back wishing I hadn't. So, I'm soliciting the collective wisdom of anybody who cares to comment.

My car has 71K original miles, original paint and interior. The car is remarkably well preserved, and even the engine paint looks fresh, and the engine bay nearly new.

So, here's my dilemma. The interior, which is fawn beaumonde brocade is perfect except for some irreparable tears on the driver seat. I've tried to match the fabric, but I don't think any source can provide a perfect match for a 45-year old car. So, I'm considering replacing the entire interior. I'm not crazy about the brocade, and am having Clark's make me a set of vinyl custom seat covers in Fawn....a color that was used on the sides and backs, and on the door cards of my car, but was not offered as an option that year. I have seen Fawn vinyl in earlier cars, and don't know why they did not offer it in '65. Nevertheless, I think it will suit my taste better than the brocade and have the appearance of a stock interior, even though its not. Anybody think I'm making a mistake by not sticking with the original?

The other issue is the paint. From 20 feet the car looks great. Closer inspection reveals many chips and some very bad touch-up. Also, a close look ad the hood and trunk lid reveals some type of discoloration. So, I'm thinking of painting the car. Several guys in the local car club tell me I'm crazy to consider painting a car that is so presentable, so I'm thinking I might try getting it rubbed out or color sanded or something short of a re-spray.

Anyway, I'm interested in your thoughts on the value of originality.

Thanks, Joe

[RivNut]

Your original car was painted with acrylic lacquer which can be rubbed out and hopefully the colors will all blend together. I used to use a product called Meguires #7 seal and reseal glaze. It was very good at filling in microscopic cracks in the lacquer and made the paint very presentable. If you can find someone who will still paint lacquer and can do some color matching/blending, it might be worth looking into.

If you aren't sure of the fawn brocade material for your car, check out the custom '65 GS that belongs to Galen Shields; it's a real award winner. If you can't find any pictures of it, let me know and I'll send you a link. His GS was original white with the fawn brocade; he had Calvin make up a new set for him when he started customizing it.

Ed

[joeinbcs]

Thanks for the tips on the paint, Ed.

Problem with the brocade fabric is not identifying it. SMS has it and so does Clarks'. But...a combination of age and sun fading will, I think, make matching impossible. So, my thought process is...as long as I have to do the whole thing, I might as well do it in vinyl (or leather, if I could find it), which would be more to my taste. But, if I thought this deviation from original would have a dramatic effect on the value of the car, I might reconsider, and just buy a set of the "original" fabric/vinyl covers that Clarks' offers. I don't forsee selling the car, but still want to consider the impact of anything I do on its value.

[Mr Riviera]

As long as you stick to the colors and trim that was available for that year and model - wont have much effect on the value . You need to decide what you are going to do with the paint before you do the interior . Do it the way YOU want . Leather was not available in 65 . Clarks sells excellent products . Have fun ,

[Patrick91914]

I agree with Dick.

Although I'm a fan of original cars, if the car's finish is crappy, paint it the color you like (although I'd strongly suggest a color available in '65). I think my car's original color was Sahara Mist (a color I hate). I had it painted burgundy mist (a color I've grown to hate) and now have it disassembled and being prepped for Turquoise Mist over black cloth and I'm adding the vinyl top.

I don't care what the data plate says.

[JZRIV]

Joe,

Your choice of interior color and type should not hurt the value especially if the original appearance is maintained aside from color. It will probably help the value vs hurt. Sounds like what you are doing will look better than the original.

As far as the paint its all in what your budget is for a new paint job, how nice you want it to look, and most importantly what you plan to do with the car. If you want to compete and win in a show then a repaint is necessary. If you want to drive and enjoy the car and have little interest in winning a show and don't lay awake in bed at night worrying about its defects, leave it like it is.

Once you invest in a quality paint job, suddenly you become very particular about when and where you drive your car, at least for awhile afterwards. The way it is now, you can drive and enjoy without anguishing over a stone chip or ding and trust me there is something to be said for that. If the paint is original and still presentable there is some value in maintaining it from a purist point of view.

Having said that in my opinion paint is the most important factor relative to a cars curb appeal and attention getting potential therefore worth spending a few thousand dollars on to do it right in the right color. Thats what catches someones eye and what they look at first when walking up to a car......or buying on ebay for that matter. If the paint is not so nice, a person will tend to look at the rest of the car that way even if the interior or engine bay is excellent. If paint is stunning in an appealing color, people tend to not be so critical of other parts of the car. When they walk away on to the next car, they remember the paint and how nice the car looked despite other shortcomings it may have.

I personally could go either way in your situation with the paint so can't suggest one is better than the other. The above is some food for thought. In the end, most importantly do what makes YOU happy.

Edited July 17, 2009 by JZRIV
spelling (see edit history)

[jimtash]

The original and current color on my car is Diplomat Blue but it's not the original paint. The paint that's on there now has a metallic base added to it and honestly, I like it. Nor do I think the value has diminished because the rest of the car is solid and mostly original. Sure it might not be a show winner, but then again it's got a few rock chips from being driven like it should be. The next owner can worry about what they want to do it but for me, I'm going to enjoy it. Life is too short not to.

Edited July 17, 2009 by jimtash (see edit history)

[bob71GS]

Last week I attended a program"Preservation Vs Restoration" that was done by the Crawford Auto Museum in Cleveland,OH. The speaker was David Schultz who is the executive director of the Glenmoor Gathering of Significant Automobiles show and where I was the chief judge of this show for 6 years. Mr. Schultz has also been a judge at Pebble Beach.

It is Mr. Schultz's professional opinion that if you own an all original car, you should preserve it in a functional running and driving condition no matter what the current condition it is in.

As an example, Mr. Schultz owns an all original Locomobile. The paint is worn down in some places to the primer and the rest is severely dull, the top has some holes in it and the upholestery is cracked due to it not having side windows.

He absolutely will not restore this car, choosing to only keep it functional and in running condition. He stated that the hobby needs to preserve more all original cars as a "benchmark" for those wishing to restore one in the future.

Our Riviera's were painted in acrylic lacquer paint, which is no longer available. The new modern paints will not give the same look.

Mr. Schultz went on to say that many car shows are now recognizing the importance of all original cars and now have a separate class for them. He also stated that serious car collectors are now paying more money for an all original car with all it's flaws than one that has been perfectly restored.

Robert Bonto

ROA # 277

Technical Advisor 71-73:)

[Patrick91914]

Last week I attended a program"Preservation Vs Restoration" that was done by the Crawford Auto Museum in Cleveland,OH. The speaker was David Schultz who is the executive director of the Glenmoor Gathering of Significant Automobiles show and where I was the chief judge of this show for 6 years. Mr. Schultz has also been a judge at Pebble Beach.

It is Mr. Schultz's professional opinion that if you own an all original car, you should preserve it in a functional running and driving condition no matter what the current condition it is in.

As an example, Mr. Schultz owns an all original Locomobile. The paint is worn down in some places to the primer and the rest is severely dull, the top has some holes in it and the upholestery is cracked due to it not having side windows.

He absolutely will not restore this car, choosing to only keep it functional and in running condition. He stated that the hobby needs to preserve more all original cars as a "benchmark" for those wishing to restore one in the future.

Our Riviera's were painted in acrylic lacquer paint, which is no longer available. The new modern paints will not give the same look.

Mr. Schultz went on to say that many car shows are now recognizing the importance of all original cars and now have a separate class for them. He also stated that serious car collectors are now paying more money for an all original car with all it's flaws than one that has been perfectly restored.

Robert Bonto

ROA # 277

Technical Advisor 71-73:)

Although I appreciate and agree with David Schultz's position, I want a car that I can enjoy AND that looks nice. I'm ALL for originality to the extent that it looks new or close to it. I've gone to great lengths to ensue that my car will look original, but I also want it to appear shiny and new as when it drove off the showroom floor. I'll leave that patina cars to those who want to stay original no matter what.

The only customization that I'm doing on my car is that I've added vacuum door locks from a '65 Electra, polished the aluminum valve covers, mounted an under hood light that I found on a '65 Olds, and I will probably cover the plastic armrest bases in vinyl.

I have found that between the service and illustrated parts manuals, catalogs, trim books, and the huge amount of quality repro vendors, there's enough resources to get me close to having a very good car. But that's just me.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Patrick91914 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Patrick,

If you owned a Locomobile, I'd encourage you to leave it as is - it would probably be cost prohibitive or very difficult to find parts for anyhow. If you choose to leave your car sit in a garage all its life and perhaps bring it out everyonce in a while for a show, all original might be the way to go. But only if it were extremely rare and was a good source for information in its original condintion.

If, however, you choose to drive it and enjoy it, by all means make it like you want it. I think there are probably enough original or restored to original '65 Rivieras out there that by your doing some custom things to yours, the world will not be cheated.

I hear you say one thing that really pleases me and that is "I intend to drive it."

Ed

[toomuchvinyl]

I about fell off of my chair when I saw Joe's post. A few days ago, I started to write one just about like it regarding my "64. I decided that it was really just a matter of opinion and what the owner wants to do. I have (according to my Body and Paint man) about 75 - 80% original paint after some ding repairs made quite some time ago, and my car too is a bona fide "20 footer".

I'm still really undecided as to what I want to do with my Riv in the future. One part of me would love to have the Bronze Mist paint all new and the chrome gleaming again and another is so impressed with it as a survivor that it almost seems an insult to try to tart it up. Kind of like Joan Rivers, too smooth for it's age and experiences.

Only time will tell in my case, and everyone has their own preferences. Bone stock or Mild/Wild Custom. Strictly by the build plate or the colors and accessories you like the most. It's great to have a stunning example of your model that could bring record setting prices but it seems like it's better to have a driver that is just the way you want it.

Keith

[Bill Stoneberg]

I too have a 64 that I dug out of the garage after sitting and being used as a Christmas decoration repository and shelving unit for way too many years.

Needless to say it has chips and faded paint. Living by chemical plants will do that for you.

I spent a year getting it to run good and then took off from Houston to Seattle for the Nationals. On the way home we went to Yellowstone and Mt. Rushmore. 5275 miles total.

I love to drive my Riviera and while it is not the best looking car on the road, when you open up the 4 bbl and cruise it cant be beat.

I am going to keep it running good and if I ever get tired of the faded paint I may have it repainted. I just finished a car though and at the moment dont want to know if I want to do another one.