Guest BarelyFit Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Finally got my Accumulator from Amazon. Paid less than $100 with shipping! I put a three foot pipe on my ratchet with a wrench on the tower and it came right off. Hand spun the new one on and gave it a little torque with the bar and voila.I am going to cut the old one in half to see what the heck goes on. Unless someone else has already done so. Is there a bladder in there or what. Edited July 4, 2009 by BarelyFit (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BarelyFit Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LouZ Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) CAREFUL, CAREFUL< CAREFUL, MAY CONTAIN 1900 LBS. PRESSURE NITROGEN Edited July 4, 2009 by LouZ (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LouZ Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 That was a little cheaper than I paid. What was the exact address you went to.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BarelyFit Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Lou:It seems the cost has gone up a bit. It was listed at $102 with free shipping but when I got to the checkout page they only charged me $99 with free shipping. I doubt this accumulator was holding much pressure as it took about 20 seconds to charge the system from a cold start, but thanks for the warning. I think I'll chuck it into a vice and take the band saw to it.Anyway here is the Amazon page I purchased the new one from:Amazon.com: ACDelco 25528382 Pressure Accumulator: Automotive3 seconds now from a cold start to the pump shutting off. My motor has already thanked me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BarelyFit Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I am going to flush the fluid Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest My TC Toy Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Like Lou said ""CAREFUL"". Personally, I think your morbid curiosity is going to cause you harm. Although it took some time to charge the old accumulator - this does NOT mean it is still not nitrogen charged. LOL, hope you gots lots of insurance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BarelyFit Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 For the lack of a better term I am 'dying' to learn how they contain/maintain that much hydraulic pressure. I deal with small volume high air pressure (4500psi) and am aware of the danger.Do you know how the pressure is maintained? Is there a bladder in the ball. That said I plan on chucking the accumulator in the big shop vice and take the electric hand held band saw to the seam on the side away from me, or better yet I'll get Rob to do it. That way I'll be able to take pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinCamFan Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Personally, I'd like to see what's inside the accumulators... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LouZ Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Alan, It's kinda one of those things. A little curious; but "EH"... Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest My TC Toy Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Simply put it works similarly to an X-trol tank on a well system. The top of the ball is charged with 1000 psi nitrogen and that is separated fron the hydraulic fluid (which anyone knows who has replaced one, is actually air, and the hydraulic fluid is in the shaft below) with a neoprene bladder. Quite simple but very effective. When the pump charges the systen to 2900 psi the resulting pressure is 'stored' by the nitrogen and blatter for multiple brake applications before the pump recharges the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BarelyFit Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I expected it to be wet with fluid when I took the old one off, but it was dry as toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest My TC Toy Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 The hydraulic fluid is in the cylinder below the shaft, once the system pressurizes the fluid rises in the shaft up to the accumulator and when the brake is applied the pressure in the accumulator pushes the fluid down the shaft. The most I would expect to see is a very small amount of fluid actually getting to the accumulator, most of the fluctuation of the fluid takes place in the shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCParts Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Be careful when purchasing those "cheap" accumulators from Amazon or GM Direct. If the box says "made in Germany, Federal Republic of" or "made in West Germany", that means it was made in West Germany PRIOR to 1990 and has been on the shelf for almost 20 years. Back in 2000, Ed Peters, one of the head engineers in Italy for the TC project, was the keynote speaker at the TC America national meet and warned of buying any accumulators from Chrysler as they were old stock and had been sitting around past the useful shelf life of 10 years. The cheap GM ones are now twice that old. The accumulators are designed for a life of 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first. These old stock units may last a while, but will ultimately cost more in the long run. The TC accumulators are similar to Citroen hydraulic "spheres" which need to be recharged every few years. The nitrogen leaks through the plastic bladder over time and ends up in the brake fluid, That is one of the many reasons the brake fluid needs to be flushed whenever an accumulator is replaced. In addition, with the loss of nitrogen pressure, the pressure pump in the ABS assembly has to run longer, creating premature wear and does not allow sufficient pressure for a full ABS activated panic stop.Remember, the TC ABS system is NOT the same as one in the Buick Reatta or other GM cars as some people assert. They share some similar mechanical parts but all of the electrical parts are different and not interchangeable. If you need specific advise about the TC brake system, these forums are not the place to make informed decisions regarding a part of your car that could determine life or death for you or a loved one. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive about this subject because a friend of mine just wrecked his TC after buying one of the cheap accumulators through Amazon because of the ill advise he received on this forum. His car will now be another resident in my TC boneyard.If you need general advise about the TC brake system the Reatta diagnosis pages are a good reference but are not completely applicable to the issues the TC brake systems have. If you care about your car, your family or yourself, consult Hemi Andersen or another competent mechanic about issues that affect the safety operation of your car, as diagnosis over the internet is not as accurate as having a real mechanic touch and feel the parts that may be defective, or ask questions specific to your cars operation. Similarly, if you want quality parts, not cheap, expired junk, it is best to go through Hemi, TC Parts or a dealer who has fresh stock that carry a warranty and assistance in installation. Truly, when it comes to safety parts you "get what your pay for".Far better advise is available though the TC America Newsletter. If you are not a club member I would encourage you to join the club and read the back issues which give significantly more accurate information than is currently available on the internet forums.Larry1964 Imperial1977 NYB1979 AMC Pacer1970 Citroen DS3 1972 Citroen D's1981 Imperial1982 Imperial1990 Imperial130 Chrysler TC by Maseratisand some newer stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest My TC Toy Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Larry,Perfectly correct. Advice on this thread, quite often, is best guess, and no substitute for hands-on diagnosis. I did not know, or would have even imagined, that the 'new' acumulators being sold were that old stock. I guess the old saying "buyer beweare" is truer than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LouZ Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Hi Larry, I need some help please. I do not doubt your info.; but I need help finding the differences. 2 years ago I bought my first 2 Hi Mileage TCs. I then read about the need to change the accumulator & flush the fluid. I bought 2 Accumulators from you at slightly over $190.00 ea. I just recently bought 2 from GMDirect. they looked the same. the new ones came in a completely sealed plastic bag. There was no evidence of this bag having any pressure on it internally as I would expect to see if any high pressure nitrogen leaked out of the chamber. This caused me to check further. I found no visable difference between these I just bought and the ones I bought 2 years ago. Looking further and extremely carefully I found numbers stamped on the surface of the Sphere I just bought. These are: "A symbol 'A' with a couple of horizontal lines thru it, and something else I can't make out then a space followed by these #s. (looked like a mfg. logo)" 10.0514*9003.1 210.BAR/025L 1.025-4315-033-621/85 BF1628 ". I then checked the ones I got from you and altho all the letters & numbers are not legable the 2/3s I can read are exactly the same. Can you give me a clue what to look for. The box looked old but it had a torn Delco label on it, & I couldn't find any Mfg. date reference. Both spheres have white stickers say "Made in Germany". Thanks, Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCParts Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Lou,I'm not sure if you can tell by the numbers on the accumulators alone - I have never had the need to look at the numbers as I only use freshly manufactured product. I purchase mine along with a co-op of wholesale suppliers directly from the manufacturer in Germany - there is a minimum order of 100. We purchase the type that looks exactly like the GM ones and also the updated style that are slightly larger (which hold more fluid) but do not have the star tool removal assist port on top. The cheap ones on Amazon that are now being sold through GM direct or AC direct are in an AC/Delco box. No matter the build date, as far as I know they all should be in a sealed plastic bag. I do not know if nitrogen atoms can seep through the plastic bag, but that may be a reason why the bags do not inflate upon degradation of the bladder. On the exterior of the box along with the part number is says "Made in Germany, Federal Republic of". Any box that has that specific designation is over 20 years old. Once the box is gone (or if the seller removed the label) it would be difficult to determine if you have an old one or new one. I suppose there is a way to go through my personal cars and try to remember when I installed the accumulators and match the numbers, but it's far too hot to do that in Phoenix this time of year.I've had my Citroens for decades - they use accumulator spheres similar to those on the TC ABS system for braking, suspension and steering. Original spheres are rechargeable and can be separated so the plastic bladder can be replaced. Some older models were brake fluid cars but the newer ones are all green hydraulic fluid models. All Citroen owners know that they need periodic recharging and it is a typical past time at meets. About 10 years ago a more "modern" sphere was marketed that could not be split open, so although recharging is possible, the plastic bladder could not be replaced. Those of us who chose the newer style spheres are now going back to the old style, as the bladder's life is still 10 years or so and we are having to replace them. The Citroens have 5 spheres each, which as you can imagine can get pricey when sphere changes are necessary. Fortunately, there were more than a million Citroens sold world wide so there is a market great enough to have a large number of high quality mechanics to work on the cars, make appropriate recommendations to fellow owners and members of the various Citoren clubs as to the care of the hydraulic system. As a TC owner, I can use the knowledge from these folks to apply the same knowledge to the Teves system accumulator. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge no separable or rechargeable Teves accumulator spheres are are available at this time, so I have to go off of what the TC engineers said is specific to our cars regarding the shelf life of our accumulators. I obviously got a little off track here, but having fellow TC owners wasting money on parts that the TC engineers specifically warned us NOT to purchase, is not only a poor value but is potentially unsafe and ultimately will lead to the untimely elimination of more TCs than is necessary. I have passion for my cars and for the TC specifically and want to see them on the road for a very long time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LouZ Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Thanks Larry, Very enlightening. Can we take one of those hex stems with the straw inside drill & tap 1/4" npt and install a test gauge.????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCParts Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I have a pressure gauge and an ABS Miller tool I bring to TC America meets to assist owners with ABS problems. I've been doing that for a decade.... Rich and Sally Lane are experts at using the Miller Tool plugs to diagnose ABS sensor issues without having to lift the wheels off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LouZ Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I too have the Miller Tools box; but I've not been ably to find one of the original test gauge units. I'm sure there is a plentiful supply of the hex extension shafts/pipes. I'm just voicing a thought of making an adapter/test gauge using available raw materials.. Loup.s. I can't run over & borrow yours, we are on opposite coasts. That leaves no choice but to make my own. lz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest My TC Toy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Larry, before I knew you existed I purchased a replacement accumulator from Prior Reman and it was a slightly larger unit without the hex nut on top and with a wrench nut on the bottom. At least it is nice to know they the one I have is good quality.Thanks for your info, it is appreciated by all, I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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