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Not just a judging issue. The Hershey Region is talking ...


Siegfried
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Susan, this isn't actually related to headlights, or batteries, but since you mentioned dogs, well, get ready because Hershey Region has decided that dogs are allowed starting in 2009. As a region member, and NOT a dog hater, I am worried about how this is going to work out. Not only in the flea market, but especially on the show field. Dogs are great pets, but they sometimes just don't fit in........

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Semi, allowing the spectators to bring dogs is a BAD idea. I understand that vendors bring their pets but those animals are rarely out in with the rest of the public.

It is a lawsuit waiting to happen. They need to require that people leave their dogs in the kennel area under the stands at the old stadium.

Years ago I talked to my boss at the phone company that was also on the board of directors of our wonderful W. Va. Art and Craft Fair. I convinced him that they should ban dogs from the fair but provide a way for spectators that brought dogs with them to leave them in the care of trained animal caregivers for a small fee. It has worked great. No more piles of dog feces that owners never seem to want to pick up (which becomes "poop soup" when it rains sick.gif), no more kids in dog's faces or people stepping on tails and risking getting bitten.

I can just hear the screams of vendors and car owners the first time a male dogs lifts it's leg mad.gif, and they will. smirk.gif

Hershey Region needs to rethink this decision.

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Susan you got it EXACTLY correct. Allowing dogs at a car show is bad for the cars and bad for the dogs.

I've always had dogs and have 2 right now but I would never subject them and other people to the potential for harm that will exist.

We took them to a big flea market once and of course one promptly peed on a sellers guitar.........Bob

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our chocolate lab has been a regular in the flea market since he was a pup, 5 years, never has been a problem. Don't remember a Hershey where there wern't some dogs present. </div></div>

It's not your do, it's the 1% of people who can't control they dogs. I'm terribly afraid of the metal ends of leashes. I also have seen people of questionable upbringing bring dogs to a dog with a real chain as a leash. I vote that dogs should not be allowed in shows.

I once politely asked a lady to please watch her dog as the dog went under my car with the metal end of the leash when she was busy turned away. She insisted that her dog did no such thing. I replied that her dog was indeed under the car while she was not looking and pointed out the metal on the leash. My politeness was not rewarded. She then promptly called me some names. She actually was a participant in the show. I felt like going over and peeing on her tires shocked.gif I kept my cool and did complain to the organizer of the show afterwards. I also indicated bikes were being ridden between the cars. Next year bikes and dogs were banned from the show grounds.

Bikes are another one of my fears. In one show alone I had two people park their bikes right in front of my fender. Just a disaster waiting to happen. Then they have a surpirse look on their face whne I asked them to move the bikes. The only thing that should be around cars at car shows are people.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Semi, allowing the spectators to bring dogs is a BAD idea. I understand that vendors bring their pets but those animals are rarely out in with the rest of the public.

It is a lawsuit waiting to happen. They need to require that people leave their dogs in the kennel area under the stands at the old stadium.

I can just hear the screams of vendors and car owners the first time a male dogs lifts it's leg mad.gif, and they will. smirk.gif

Hershey Region needs to rethink this decision. </div></div>

Shop Rat I agree 1000%. Dogs have their place just NOT on a car SHOW FIELD.

I do not care how well behaved the animal is or how attentive the owner is.

Things happen in large crowds. Spectators do STEP ON dogs or TRIP OVER them and FALL into SHOW CARS.

Large crowds tend to stress out some breeds of dogs which is not good for the aniamal or those around them.

I have seen this happen WAY TO OFTEN at shows that allow dogs.

Bottom line is allowing dogs on a show car field is asking for a lawsuit.

Then all who attend the event end up paying when the event insurance rates are doubled or tripled or

worse yet coverage cannot be purchased at all.

I sure hope that Hershey Region has good event insurance.

As soon as a dog damages a show car, you can bet that the dog owner and Hershey Region will both

have legal headaches because of this new "policy".

BTW, one has to wonder if Hershey Region consulted their insurance carrier before making this decision?

Something tells me that they probably did not.

FYI, a few years ago I was the unfortunate victim of a "policy" at a car show.

The end result was DAMAGE to my show car which I ended up paying for in more wayds than one.

For those policymakers who say "awww that won't happen" don't kid yourself, it DOES.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt Hershey Region or the AACA would have any liability if a dog damaged your car while at the show. That's what your auto insurance is for. </div></div>

You may be correct that ultimately Hershey Region and the AACA may not be liable.

That would not prevent an injured party from naming Hershey Region, AACA National and HERCO in a lawsuit.

Then all three entities would have to lawyer up and get out their checkbooks to pay their lawyer fees.

I suppose that is what auto insurance is for.

WHY however should the animals, people and show cars be put at RISK in the FIRST PLACE?

What happens if the dog is injured or killed? What about a dog biting a spectator, show car owner or meet staffer?

You can bet your Antique Car that a lawsuit will result and that the Hershey Region, AACA Hational and HERCO (among others) will be named in that lawsuit as well.

The bottom line comes down to the question of potential risk to the animal, show cars and people at the event and how allowing dogs on the show field increases the risk of an incident versus not allowing the dogs to be there.

The CJE seesion at Gettysburg on "Judging Etiquette" covered the necessity to make the show car owners feel WELCOME and COMFORTABLE. Without show cars there is no show. Allowing dogs on the show field could very well make some show car owners Uncomfortable and fell less than Welcome. Before a Region or Chapter makes policy on pets on their show fields maybe they should remember this and attend this CJE.

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I was in the same CJE with charlier, by the way it was good to meet him, and Bookreader was the instructor. We do need to make everyone feel welcome. However, the AACA shouldn't put anyone at risk of a dog bite or damage to property by allowing dogs.

Too many dog owners think that their precious little dog won't bite, won't use the bathroom where they shouldn't and will promise to clean it up. Yeah, right. shocked.gif

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Guest imported_Bookreader

Goodness me, I am always finding one more situation to add to the Etiquette In Judging Seminar and this is certainly an interesting one to handle. I will think on this; both from the angle of the pet owner and the side of the vehicle owner.

It certyainly presents a problem for both sides.

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Just a question pertaining to the T-3 headlights repro's that now have the DOT approval on them. How can a deduction be made if the current repro's have to meet current federal standards? If that is the case, then current repro tires should get pointed for having the DOT serial numbers on them for safety!

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Hello Bookreader,

It is difficult for both sides. I am a dog owner as you can see from my AVATAR. I understand how some people take their dogs everywhere they go. I have been places where dogs are allowed and have seen first hand how bad it can be.

I just don't think that mixing dogs with lots of people, including young children that are at face height with the dog, and vehicles that are valued by their owners no matter the level of the car and restoration, is the best idea.

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That is a great question Resq302 !! What say Judges?

There was concern of the trickle effect for safety after the fatality wreck of the Nova owner. Yet we want to search the world for old technology T-3s.

I'll stick with the repo's in my most drivable car. SAFETY FIRST.

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Darn, am I ever glad that I mentioned the dog decision for the Fall Meet at Hershey.

Folks, let AACA national know how you feel, and let Hershey Region know. They might listen to you all, because they sure aren't listening to concerned region memebers. Imagine that?? Guess I'll have to join the region ruling class.

Tell them Semi- sent you.

Hershey Region - AACA

ATTN: Fall Meet Chairman

Box 305

Hershey, Pa 17033-0305

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I attended the Historic Fredericksburg Region's annual show today in old town Fredericksburg, Virginia. As my youngest son backed the Oldsmobile into the side street, I helped him unload the chairs and other cleaning products onto the sidewalk. About that time A fellow with a yellow Lab on a lease came along admiring the Olds. The dog immediately tried to jump into my trunk. Evidently he has done this many times before when his master opens the family car trunk. Naturally, the dog hasn't been trained to avoid this behavior while in public. I had to wipe the wet paw prints off my bumper. Now, we were in the downtown area, so there can't be regulations against this. But, this could have been serious if it had happened to a more expensive automobile.

Wayne

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Our point exactly Wayne.

A scratch on a vehicle is bad. Worst yet is a child bitten in the face. I have photos of me when I was bitten in the face by a neighbor's dog. Dogs can inflict a lot of damage in just one bite.

It is irresponsible of Hershey, where they control who gets in, to allow spectators to bring dogs to the flea market area (ignoring the obvious joke here) and show field.

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... about letting spectators bring dogs to Fall Hershey this year. Lots of us think it is a bad idea for a lot of reasons.

Check it out on the Judging Forum under the heading T-3 headlamps vs. crappy batteries.

This affects every person, and even the dogs people want to bring, not just judges.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nearchoclatetown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This shows JUST how much you people pay attension. Dogs have been allowed at Hershey because HERCO owns the property and Hershey region doesn't make the rules. This is NOTHING new. </div></div>

So, has Hershey Region actually questioned this policy very strongly in recent years or simply put their tail between their legs and accepted it without a meaningful discussion? I am sure I am not the only AACA Member what wonders about that.

Hey, no problem. I am sure after someone is INJURED by a dog, or has their car DAMAGED by a dog or has their DOG INJURED their lawyers will put HERCO's name FIRST on the LAWSUIT. They will surely add Hershey Region, AACA National and then the other parties involved.

No matter how this sitution is spun allowing dogs on the show field is a VERY BAD DECISION regardless of WHO is responible for it.

Time for Hershey Region and AACA National to MAN UP and have a meaningful discussion about this policy with HERCO.

Both Hershey Region & AACA National, no doubt, have legal counsel on retainer.

Sooner or later they are going to need those legal services if this policy is allowed to continue.

It is only a matter of time.

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Everybody has to have a cause. Gettysburg had a "pet friendly" hotel policy. I paid the $20 sur charge and had a good time with both pet and car. With the leash laws that are already on the books, I think the libility is covered. As for not cleaning up any pet messes, there are some people that shouldn't have pets or cars for that matter. Don't let one bad apple ruin a good time.

Now for my cause.

I fear that the AACA could be on the losing side with letting handi-cap people run all over the field. Gettysburg was one such example. Myself and two other men had to rescue a man that was on oxygen that was stuck in the mud with his handi-cap scooter. Other show fields like Hershey are too rough for any handi-cap vehicle.

The only point I'm trying to make here is we don't live in a perfect world. Lets just make the best of it and have a good time.

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AACA has no control whatsoever over handicap vehicles. If a person has a legitimate "Handicapped" Placard they have the same rights as every other person at the event and they nor their mode of transport can be questioned. I also believe it is illegal under federal law to question their handicapped status. If AACA really wants a lawsuit see what happens if they deny access to someone with a golf cart and a "Handicapped" placard. In PA the Department of Labor and Industry will fight that battle on behalf of the individual at no cost.

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Regarding D-Day: Yes, it is way too easy to forget what out elders suffered so we could have the freedom to complain about mud at a car show. My Uncle turned 83 on June 6th. He turned 18 on board a landing craft during the Normandy invasion. His ship hit a mine and was split in two. He was one of the lucky ones. The ship beside theirs lanched 16 smaller landing craft onto Omaha Beach, only 4 returned. He never spoke much of his ordeal and only agreed to accept the Purple Heart to which he was entitled when he turned 80. Talking to these older citizens certainly puts things in perspective.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What a bunch of loosers........yesterday was D-Day and you deside to [censored] about dogs?</div></div>

We're not all losers.....a lot of us displayed our flag to commemorate our men and women of the services. Yes, some folks have no control over their dogs (or kids for that matter). If I had a nickel for every kid I have seen at a car show hopping up onto the running board of a nicely restored car (with their parent watching and doing nothing about it), I would be driving an L29 Cord and not a Dodge.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob Giles</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Don't let one bad apple ruin a good time.

</div></div>

Sadly it isn't just one bad apple. And the folks that do what is right when they take their dogs places are the minority in my experience. Sure, there have always been s few dogs at Hershey. But most of them are with car owners or vendors that have respect for each others property. Spectators most of the time don't have a clue. And they are <span style="font-weight: bold">deeply offended </span>if you ask them to not let their kids or dogs get too close to their vehicles or items for sale.

I have been nearly run down by a guy on a bike, had to get out of the way of golf carts and handicapped scooters that do not have the authorization sticker or tag to be on the fields and are going too fast, and have had to get after kids on skateboards to stop them from crashing into people last year. We don't need another hazard to look out for.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only point I'm trying to make here is we don't live in a perfect world. Lets just make the best of it and have a good time. </div></div>

No we don't live in a perfect world. But let's not make it more dangerous than it has to be.

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I raised and trained labs for Guiding Eyes for the blind for almost 10 years. Part of there training requres they socialise with people at resturaunts stores and any place you might go. With this in mind I thought a cruse-in would be a good training exericse. WRONG. With the exception of trained service animals dogs do not belong on a car show. Yes I have dogs and yes they get treated better than some people,they still dont go to a car show.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I raised and trained labs for Guiding Eyes for the blind for almost 10 years</div></div>I didn't know that. That's pretty cool.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the exception of trained service animals dogs do not belong on a car show</div></div>Here's an idea..... No dogs allowed on the showfield unless they've been to judging school!!

Here's how you can train them....

The dogs can be chassis judges!!

1 Bark - Rust present.

2 Barks - Grease present.

3 Barks - non authentic parts.

4 Barks - car is disqualified.

Dog urinates on the tires - absence of a fire extinguisher..

Tail Wag - feed me a treat and I'll ignore the deficiency..

laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

.....I don't agree with dogs at a car show either, but thought I'd add a little humor grin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gif

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .....I don't agree with dogs at a car show either, but thought I'd add a little humor grin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gif </div></div>

**shaking my head and laughing** laugh.gif

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Somebody needs to check this fellow's judging credits (CJE). I believe he missed a couple of those classes!</div></div>I couldn't think of an appropriate deduction for a dog licking himself without getting banned from the thread, so I left it out. laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

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