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Engines vs Motors


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Several times there have been slightly sharp replies made when I have been so bold as to suggest that internal combustion engines run on gas or diesel and motors run on electricity.

Perhaps I was slightly hasty in my comments because I find that the latest English dictionary (English your and my language) suggests that a second meaning for motor is internal combustion. So be it. According to the dictionary I was wrong.

However, how much attention have you been taking regarding the latest hybrid technology. All of the manufacturers refer to engines when using traditional fuel and motors when using battery power.

Is the circle just coming around or our manufacturers better at english (than they are at runing a business) than the dictionary composers???

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Tinindian, does it realy matter, i have several shop manuals , depending on what part

of the world you live in both names are used for the internal combustion engine,I have ben known to call them either, it also comes down to where you you live in your interpretation of the english language.

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From Wikipedia:

"An engine is a mechanical device that produces some form of output from a given input.

An engine whose purpose is to produce kinetic energy output from a fuel source is called a prime mover; alternatively, a motor is a device which produces kinetic energy from other forms of energy (such as electricity, a flow of hydraulic fluid or compressed air).

A motor car (automobile) has a starter motor and motors to drive pumps (fuel, power steering, etc) – but the power plant that propels the car is called an engine. The term 'motor' was originally used to distinguish the new internal combustion engine -powered vehicles from earlier vehicles powered by a steam engine (as in steam roller and motor roller).

Military engines included siege engines, large catapults, trebuchets and battering rams."

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1DandyDaves</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why a "Motors Manual"....? wink.gif Dandy Dave! </div></div>

General Motors, American Motors, The Ford Motor Co.

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Bhigdog I like your comment (My car is a Pontiac and hers is a Chev) but I am not going to express that opinion to my wife of 44 years (I learned a thing or two 42 years ago).

This thread was just started to have some discussion.

The only problem with the misuse of a word (especially when people are not face to face with the object) is misunderstanding. People on forums ask for help and many times it takes five or six replys before we know what the person really is asking.

I just wonder how the younger folks are going to find out how to pull a full floating, semi floating or three-quarter floating axle on a vehicle when all of us old (read experienced) guys are not around to help. I have several friends that read their shop manuals, look at the illustrations and don't know wether to crawl under the car or to open the hood. One of them (a very good computer tech) has been unable in three years to master clockwise and counterclockwise (verbally or written) for turning a bolt. However he now has completed a truck restoration with hands on direction. So I guess ther is still hope.

Thank you West Peterson.

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I agree that it doesn't matter.. If it is so wrong to say "motor" instead of "engine", then why were there so many "motor" car companies instead of "engine" companies? It seams that many old car companies were infact motor cars. Example...American Motor Car Company...Simplex Motor Company...Crosley Motors, INC..... Look through old car manufactures names, you will see that the biggest majority were MOTOR companies, not ENGINE companies.. Our forefathers should have looked in the dictionary, and figured it out...My 2 cents.. but it doesn't matter to me..

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds to me like this is a "dinner" or "supper" kind of issue. smirk.gif </div></div>

It was. Language is a dynamic thing. It changes over time dramatically. Most of us are old enough that we would've been complemented as children if one of our father's friends refered to us as his "gay son". While it's hardly an insult today, in a matter of less than a generation that term became something entirely different.

The simple point to be made is if I take my Prius in and tell them the motor isn't working, they'll diagnose the problem. If I tell them the same thing about the engine, they'll have to send a tow truck.

When you're driving a hybrid (<span style="font-style: italic">and you will be if you're driving a new car 10 years from now, for certain</span>), it'll matter to you.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> When you're driving a hybrid (and you will be if you're driving a new car 10 years from now, for certain), </div></div>

Ah yes, for certain! I just love a prediction for 10 years hence made with unbridled certitude seasoned with just a whiff of arrogance.

It kind of reminds me of the automotive headlines back in the 70's that documented the last American V-8 that would ever be produced. After all, Oil would NEVER be cheap again.

Oh yes, lets also not forget the last convertable that was to ever roll off of an American line. Air conditioning would see to that.

Then of course who could forget the experts predicting that nuke plants would make electicity so cheap it wouldn't even be metered. Let the good times roll.

Lastly, lets not forget the experts wringing their hands about global cooling and the coming ice age.

Yes indeed.......It's for certain. HAW HAW HAW......Bob

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yes indeed.......It's for certain. HAW HAW HAW......Bob

</div></div>

The last time I pointed this out one of the moderators decided it was political and pulled the thread. We'll see if it lasts this time.

By 2019 Corporate Average Fuel Economy Standards are set to be 35 mpg <span style="text-decoration: underline">fleetwide</span> by manufacturer, as required by the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007. (This means light trucks are included, unlike the C.A.F.E we're currently living with which gives them a break [22.2 mpg vs. 27.5 mpg].) This is the same Act that outlaws incandescent lightbulbs by 2019. There are discussions currently ongoing about how to implement these new standards, but the standards themselves are set in law.

On Jan. 26 of this year the US-DOT was ordered to do a review of the relevant legal, technological, and scientific considerations associated with establishing more stringent fuel economy standards. So, if anything, those standards will be revised upwards. As of now the combined C.A.F.E. standard for 2010 is set at 25.3 mpg, and for 2011 it is 27.3 mpg. Similar increases can be expected every year for next decade or so (at least).

So yes, if you're drving a new car in 2019 it <span style="text-decoration: underline">will</span> be a hybrid, or not gasoline/diesel powered at all. It's likely that very point is what's driving the language question that started this thread.

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In engineering terms a motor is a device that turns energy into motion. An engine is a shortened phrase for heat engine and refers to devices that turn heat energy into motion. Thus an internal combustion engine or a steam engine or any other engine is a special kind of motor, but an electric motor or a hydraulic motor or a vacuum motor is not an engine ( heat may be given off as a byproduct but it is not the heat that is converted). At least that is my story and I am sticking to it!

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with tongue in cheek , just a small point , as the AACA is a world wide orgonisation with an international membership , i thought that the use of both trms is quite appropriate, after all whats in a name . as my father used to say on the interpreation of the english lanquage, "it depends on what school you went to "

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There are discussions currently ongoing about how to implement these new standards, but the standards themselves are set in law.

</div></div>

And as we all know laws can't be changed, circumstanses will never change, and the course we are set upon will remain carved in stone even as administrations change and new theories and discoveries reveal themselves.

Ah yes, the sweet ignorance of certainty. HAW HAW HAW.....Bob

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bhigdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There are discussions currently ongoing about how to implement these new standards, but the standards themselves are set in law.

</div></div>

And as we all know laws can't be changed, circumstanses will never change, and the course we are set upon will remain carved in stone even as administrations change and new theories and discoveries reveal themselves.

Ah yes, the sweet ignorance of certainty. HAW HAW HAW.....Bob </div></div>

Bob, did you read the whole post?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On Jan. 26 of this year the US-DOT was ordered to do a review of the relevant legal, technological, and scientific considerations associated with establishing more stringent fuel economy standards. So, if anything, those standards will be revised upwards.</div></div>

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Reminds me of an economist customer of mine who was involved with NAFTA negotiations. He told me they spent hours trying to define the term "pretzel". If a pretzel was determined to be food it was governed by one section of the treaty. If a pretzel was determined to be a "snack" it was governed by another section. Sounds simple but think about it. A bagel is food in my opinion and a pretzel is a snack but in reality how do the two differ? The engine/motor distinction becomes important when you are talking about a hybrid vehicle, at least to avoid confusion.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bob, did you read the whole post? </div></div>

Yup. The point is....It's not what the gov't and others are predicting, it's that these and other predictions have been made over and over again and have been wrong as many times as they have been right. To parrot gov't dogma and predictions on anything as certanties is just plain foolish. And I use that word in the literal sense. It's ALL subject to the political tides and currents that swirl through Washington and the extreme willingness of our officials to do whatever it takes to get reelected.

So while we may all be driving cars that run on electricity or hydrogen in ten years it's also likely we will be tooling about

in the latest Hot Shot V-12 now that North Korea has missed Isreal and mistakenly nuked Iran and Saudi Arabia is the latest Star added to the US flag. Of course France will still hate us..........Bob

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Because of common usage the terms engine and motor have become interchangeable like cement and concrete. Correctly cement is the binding agent that bonds the aggregate mixture to form concrete.

I remember from my "Motor Mechanics" class in school being told that both engines and motors perform work by generating torque. However, engines are capable of carrying their fuel with them and motors get their fuel or power from another source such as electricity or hydralic fluid. So, are the motors in electic cars engines because they carry the battries with them, or, are they motors because the batteries get the power from another source?

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Motors are electric...engines are engines. Merriam Webster, engine: ingenuity, evil contrivance: wile, imstrument of war, a machine for converting various forms of energy into mechanical force and motion.

NASCAR: MOTOR

How about the "Harley Davidson Engine Company"

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, are the motors in electic cars engines because they carry the battries with them, or, are they motors because the batteries get the power from another source? </div></div>

The whys and wherefores of this language change do not matter a whit. The simple fact is when you're reading a parts book or a owners/repair/shop manual for a hybrid car the terms are <span style="text-decoration: underline">never</span> mixed. The motor is electric, the engine is fossil fueled.

There's no need to make a judgement call about whether this is good or bad or whether it makes sense or not. If you want people under the appropriate circumstances to know what you're talking about you conform to their conventions.

It's obvious that these devices are going to be an integral part of automobiles for quite some time. What to call them, as distinct from what those words used to be for, is a question that's pretty much been decided.

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Richardson is right - but our tendency is to dumb down English these days. Technical info actually uses "gage" (couldn't figure out where the "u" went , so just leave it out).

An engine converts chemical energy to mechanical, so consumes a fuel. A hybrid, or a diesel locomotive, use both an engine and a motor to propel the vehicle.

Not a big deal on informal usage, but they are not both equally correct.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

General Motors, American Motors, The Ford Motor Co. </div></div>

Olds Motor Works... Pontiac Motor Division...

But I gotta agree with Tin... a motor runs on electricty... an engine runs on gas or diesel (or dilithium crystals).

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike_s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did the 60's batmobile have a jet engine or jet motor?</div></div>

Neither.....in reality.

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Are you sure? smile.gif I was trying to illustrate those items are almost always called jet engines, not jet motors. Which brings to mind, in the 1960's? didn't chrysler have a turbine powered car? was that called a motor or engine?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike_s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you sure? smile.gif I was trying to illustrate those items are almost always called jet engines, not jet motors. Which brings to mind, in the 1960's? didn't chrysler have a turbine powered car? was that called a motor or engine? </div></div>

Well, I just Googled it and the fist 3 pages either say "engine" or just "Chrysler turbine"

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 58Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike_s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you sure? smile.gif I was trying to illustrate those items are almost always called jet engines, not jet motors. Which brings to mind, in the 1960's? didn't chrysler have a turbine powered car? was that called a motor or engine? </div></div>

Well, I just Googled it and the fist 3 pages either say "engine" or just "Chrysler turbine"</div></div>

Here you go...directly out of my Engineering Staff-Technical Information Section from Chrysler Corporation.

post-37352-143138069929_thumb.jpg

post-37352-143138069932_thumb.jpg

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