T-3 headlamps vs CRAPPY batteries

[Bhigdog]

Why are T-3 headlamps NOT required when they are readily available as new repro's when the rules INSIST "correct" repro batteries ARE required? Where is the consistancy or rational for that decision?..........Bob

[R W Burgess]

As has been said many times before, Bob, because the AACA hasn't changed the rules yet.

When trying to change AACA Judging rules, the first step is sending a letter to the Vice-President of Judging listed below.

Joseph S.Vicini

3 Robins Nest Drive

Perrineville, NJ 08535

Some people say that rules change too slowly in the AACA, but I'd like to offer an example of why speed is not good in this situation.

A year ago or so, the AACA changed their fire extinguisher rule to make mandatory a new fire extinguisher that covered the "A/B/C" category. So far, so good, but then, even looking back, this rule could be seen as hastily instituted. These new extinguishers were hard to find by AACA members, so it was decided to just change the rule to "any properly charged U/L approved fire extinguisher" would be acceptable in 2009.

As some say, rules change slowly in the AACA, but sometimes that's a good thing.

Wayne

[Shop Rat]

One more time class.

At the time the rule was made there were no reproduction T-3 headlamps. The old ones had become impossible to find or were far too costly for anyone to reasonably afford so the judging committee stopped requiring them in 1995.

The replacement batteries have been available.

To get the headlight rule reversed you must petition the judging committee to do that. So start now to get that done for 2010.

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> At the time the rule was made there were no reproduction T-3 headlamps</div></div>

At the risk of being argumentative, I bought my repro T-3's seven years ago. Actually I don't think T-3's should be required again I think the CRAPPY repro batteries being foisted on a captive market should be optional. Getting up on my favorite soap box again. If I can buy a $70 battery from my local NAPA store that will last 7 years there is no reason whatever A reprpo that costs three times that cannot do the same. We are being raped.

And the height of hypocracy is watching guys remove a NAPA battery on the show field and replacing it with a long dead repro just for judging. J.H.C. if that isn't cheating I don't know what is and it's met with a wink and a nod. If you're going to insist on perpetuating this charade how about requiring every car with a visable battery to pass a 10 second cranking test by the judges, or require that a repro "original" style battery be displayed "with" the car and save the owner the trouble of actually putting it in........Bob

[novaman]

I understand where those wanting T-3 headlights to be required are coming from. BUT....

Stop and think about the fact that the judges are trying to cover something 2,800 different makes and models. If AACA made T-3 Brand Name headlights mandatory for GM cars, then brand name should be just as important for all other cars.

Can you tell me what brand name headlight is correct for the following:

1949 Willys Jeepster

1963 Studebaker Avanti

1951 Hudson Hornet

1952 MG TD

1954 Kaiser Darrin

1963 Chevrolet Chevy II

1958 Rambler Rebel

1973 Dodge Dart

1984 Pontiac Fiero

Datsun 280Z

As for the battery,

A) the requirement is that the car be driven onto the show field. If you can jump start you car with no battery in it and the alt/gen is good enough to keep it running, that's fine. But i would suggest that there is a battery there by the time the judges get to it. There is no rule that says you can't swap batteries, tires, valve stem caps or any other part on the showfield.

If you require a 10 sec crank test you run into two issues.

1. What if the onwer is not present. Do you disquailfy the car because he isn't there to crank it? He could be no the far side of the show field from his car, judging your car.

2. Personaly if you require the cranking you now cross the line were all electrical things should be tested. After all there is a horn there, but does it work? Can you image the roughly 1,000 horns being beeped at Hershey? Did the onwer spend the momney to rebuild the wiper motor so it works, oops.. it vavcuum now we need to start the car to test it.

Either or both will make the judging process take longer, and at places like Hershey with that number of cars if you make the process take too long, you could end up recieving your award at the bsnquet at 3am Sunday morning.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: novaman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There is no rule that says you can't swap batteries, tires, valve stem caps or any other part on the showfield. </div></div>

I have seen quite a few owners swap the tires and then put show hubcaps/wheelcovers on. And if the repro batteries are pieces of c**p then get a good non-working original or keep the p.o.c. one as the show battery and swap them out with a modern battery to move the car around and go for drives with.

Owners need to join forces and demand that companies put out better quality repro parts for our hobby.

[R W Burgess]

Reminds me of my first AACA National Show in Chesapeake Virginia years ago.

I had cleaned my nice, but not perfect '65 Corvette for the big show. At the time Janet Rickets was judging Vettes in those days (probably told you about that before). So, my car's all cleaned up and pretty and I'm proud of my ride. Gloria and I are sitting on the show field wondering what other kind of cars may park beside us.

About that time, a beautiful Cascade Green '57 comes onto the showfield and is directed to park beside me. The first time I had ever seen a Cascade green GM product....I was in love.

The owner got out of the car, proceeded to empty his trunk of cleaning supplies, taking out a plastic wrapped item. He then went up to the driver's door, took the seat out, walked back, took the spotless new seat out of the wrapper and put it in the show car.

At that point I knew I was out of my element. You know the saying..."Stay on the porch"? That's me.

Show cars are for the really serious AACA members.

Guess I'll stick to local shows and National Tours.

It was a wonderful first time experience though and I can really appreciate the effort that goes into having a near perfect show car on the field.

Wayne

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Owners need to join forces and demand that companies put out better quality repro parts for our hobby.

</div></div>

BINGO!

EXACTLY my point. Now substitute "owners clubs" for "owners" and that's the way to get the battery rip off artist's attention. If the AACA, and ideally other clubs, decreed that EXACT battery repros were optional the repro people would lose the leverage they now have by being the only game in town and would either make a quality product at a fair price or go out of business. This is not rocket science but economics 101.

I'm not saying any old ugly battery be allowed. I'm saying a tastefull, near properly sized, unadorned, black battery be allowed with no deductions. Deca battery makes excellant batteries in most sizes. All of the graphics are applied film that is easily peeled off with the help of a hair drier. The resulting battery is clean and totally black. It is tastefull and in no way detracts from the apperance of the car. Did I mention that it's higher capacity, lasts twice as long and costs one third the price of repro-junk.

In my opinon, the car clubs, by requiring it's members to buy from a monopoly, are aiding and abetting the fleecing of their own members.

As for writing letters to the "officials" requesting action I would think the "officials" would be interested enough to be proactive rather than reactive in their duties.....Respectfully, Bob.

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Show cars are for the really serious AACA members. </div></div>

If by serious you mean owners willing to just throw big bucks at their cars I must disagree. The New Bern Grand Nats were the first I'd ever attended. I brought my 55 Buick on an open trailer with a box of paper towels and some windex in the trunk.

We got there a couple of days early and then we watched the custom trailers, mega buck campers, and owners with their "restorers" in attendance pull into town. I was so depressed I seriously told my wife "lets just burn the car where it sits and go home".

Long story short.......The car now has it's SR Grand Nat badge as does the 57.

Now the point of this tale is that all of the members are not rolling in dough. Many of us do our own work or as much of it as possible because we have to. It's often not easy to "just write a check".

That's the reason the junk repro battery deal is a sore point with me. I have $1000 of totally junk batteries sitting under my bench for no good reason. I don't like being forced to p**s money down a rat hole for no good reason. Respectfully....Bob

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bhigdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That's the reason the junk repro battery deal is a sore point with me. I have $1000 of totally junk batteries sitting under my bench for no good reason. I don't like being forced to p**s money down a rat hole for no good reason. Respectfully....Bob </div></div>

I just thought of this. Have you, or anyone else here, caught in this written letters to the Attorney General and/or Better Business Bureau in the state where the business is that you got them from? They do investigate complaints. They will warn others away from them if they are asked about businesses in their area.

So does sending the company putting out a bad product if you send a direct letter stating if they don't make it right then you will let anyone that will listen know about how horrible their products are. That you are a member of a world-wide antique auto club with LOTS of members that don't like being ripped off.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W Burgess</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... At the time Janet Rickets was judging Vettes in those days...</div></div>

That was the true treasure of the day. I have judged several times with Janet, as has Bill, and she is a great lady and a fine example of what an AACA judge should be.

[R W Burgess]

No Bob, not money, serious as in, really wanting that award badly enough to go the extra mile in preparation and detailing. I have seen a lot of home restored cars that are every bit as good as the pros.

I guess I'm just lazy that way.

I worked really hard for 40 years at my job, but I'm burn out and can not get myself in the mood to do much more than drive my beasts. Sad, right?

I'm sorry I've missed you on the show field in the past to check your cars out.

Wayne

[R W Burgess]

You're right Susan, Janet is special. A go-to person, if you have a problem in the AACA.

I pray for her health.

Wayne

[Restorer32]

There is no requirement that says you must install a repro or script battery, just that the battery be of the era and type as originally fitted. I think most judges interpret this to mean, for instance, in pre-war cars a black battery with fill caps and top mount posts, or am I wrong?

[Tom M]

Sure glad my battery is hidden

[Bhigdog]

You may be correct on that point, I'm not sure. But I don't know of any of any new car batterys with filler caps other than the repro-junk. I could quite easily be mistaken there. Anyone know of any?.......Bob

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Sure glad my battery is hidden </div></div>

The battery in my 1939 Chevy PU is hidden under the floor boards. The restoration is about 12 years old and I'm on my second $65 Deka battery from my local NAPA.......Bob

[Tom M]

I think I am on my second (Napa brand also) also since I inherited the car from my father in '96.

Not sure of the state of it anymore since it has been out of service since O about 2005 or so

[John348]

I have used the repro batteries in all of my Chevy's with visable batteries and have had NO PROBLEMS, ever! They last 6-7 years as long as they are maintained, and the charging system is in proper working order.

The problem is "as delivered" is not "as delivered" and that issue just gets dropped. I do not buy the excuse that the judges do not know what the correct T-3 is supposed to be used, they should know it is not a GE or a Westinghouse, same with the battery.

[SolidAxle]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Biscayne John</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have used the repro batteries in all of my Chevy's with visable batteries and have had NO PROBLEMS, ever! They last 6-7 years as long as they are maintained, and the charging system is in proper working order.

The problem is "as delivered" is not "as delivered" and that issue just gets dropped. I do not buy the excuse that the judges do not know what the correct T-3 is supposed to be used, they should know it is not a GE or a Westinghouse, same with the battery. </div></div>

John,

I am afraid that you and I are in a minority on this point. My fear is that it has become a slippery slope in an organization that is striving to evaluate an antique vehicle in the same state as it was received by the dealer from the factory.

We now allow era correct, any brand, batteries, headlights, belts, tires, hoses, and clamps. The argument that it became this way because repops didn't exist and originals were "impossible" to find is pure fabrication and nonsense. My concern is that this current logic will gradually lead to AACA permitting era correct, any brand, wipers and wiper arms, radios, radiators, wheel and wheel covers, glass, spark plugs, wires, wire terminals, horns, fenders, steering wheels, etc, etc, etc.

It is the dumbing down of judging and judges under the guise of "it would be too difficult to educate" that bothers me the most. This is one situation in the world where there can be a clear right and wrong yet we have intentionally grayed the reality of how the vehicle came from the factory.

Yes, AACA should be fun. But fun shouldn't penalize a correctly maintained or restored vehicle to the correct condition as it came from the factory. Folks that prefer modern replacements can simply weight the cost/effort vs point argument to decide whether they want to invest in their vehicle in that manner. Instead we have simply lowered the standards under the pretense that doing it correctly and in concert with the AACA stated objective would be too difficult.

Last weekend I spent over $1,000 taking my correctly restored vehicle (with correct tires, battery, headlights, etc) to Charlotte to earn its Senior Award. I am beginning to re-evaluate if this will continue to be a good investment if we are evolving our judging into the world of generics.

I personally believe that there are many many ways of educating judges toward being more expert instead of just changing the rules to make it easier to judge. There are thousands of parts for cars that are no longer manufactured, repoped, or available as used, especially in the antique and classic car classes. Try to find an original body panel for a Duesenberg, early Cadillac, or Stutz. Or an original or repoped ( ) 8 cylinder motor for a Wills Ste. Claire. Should we allow era correct, non brand specifics in these cases? The slope gets more and more slippery. If we continue to do this, you will see an exodus of the correct examples of these vehicles at AACA meets and will be left with the near street rodded versions thereof.

As a member of the Wills Ste. Claire Club, Cadillac-LaSalle Club, Cameo & GMC Truck Club, MCA, Model T Club, Model A Club, CCCA, SACC, and NCRS this logic befuddles me. This logic flies in the face of attracting Marque specific members which was discussed at the Roundtable meeting at length in Charlotte.

Prepare yourself for the traditional "write your elected official" response.

[Bhigdog]

With all respect you boys should be concerned about just what slippery slope you mean when you use words like "correct", "original", and "as delivered" vis-a-vis restorations. Carring it to it's logical extreme, as you seem to desire, is just plain not doable unless ONLY OEM parts were used.

Clearcoat/base coat? Sorry, only alkyd enamel or lacquer will do. Neoprene hoses? sorry natural gum rubber needed. Nylon bias ply tires? Say, weren't those tires rayon or cotton? Hey wait a minute, this tar on the "correct" tar top battery only LOOKS like tar. Huh!

That's mighty nice show chrome, doesn't look anything like it did from the factory though. Wow, look here. There's NO overspray splattered everywhere. What, no undercoating smearing that nicely detailed fire wall, what gives? Oh but look, there are those cute crayon marks. Look at the door margins all nice and "correct" and the trim allllll lines up, "correctly", just like new. NOT. Speaking of trim it's nice that it's all buffed to a mirror finish. Just like the factory did "correctly".

All the graphics and instructions silk screened on rather than stickums? I'm sure they are or they wouldn't be "correct". Need new ball or roller bearings? Better get the old ones with inferior steel.

Horse hair rugs or upholstery? Damn the expense.

Sorry fellas but you're just deluding yourself if you think "original", "correct" or "as delivered" is possible much less desireable..........Bob

[SolidAxle]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bhigdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With all respect you boys should be concerned about just what slippery slope you mean when you use words like "correct", "original", and "as delivered" vis-a-vis restorations. Carring it to it's logical extreme, as you seem to desire, is just plain not doable unless ONLY OEM parts were used.

Clearcoat/base coat? Sorry, only alkyd enamel or lacquer will do. Neoprene hoses? sorry natural gum rubber needed. Nylon bias ply tires? Say, weren't those tires rayon or cotton? Hey wait a minute, this tar on the "correct" tar top battery only LOOKS like tar. Huh!

That's mighty nice show chrome, doesn't look anything like it did from the factory though. Wow, look here. There's NO overspray splattered everywhere. What, no undercoating smearing that nicely detailed fire wall, what gives? Oh but look, there are those cute crayon marks. Look at the door margins all nice and "correct" and the trim allllll lines up, "correctly", just like new. NOT. Speaking of trim it's nice that it's all buffed to a mirror finish. Just like the factory did "correctly".

All the graphics and instructions silk screened on rather than stickums? I'm sure they are or they wouldn't be "correct". Need new ball or roller bearings? Better get the old ones with inferior steel.

Horse hair rugs or upholstery? Damn the expense.

Sorry fellas but you're just deluding yourself if you think "original", "correct" or "as delivered" is possible much less desireable..........Bob

</div></div>

I wasn't necessarily referring to restorations or restored cars per se. Let's use an all original, unrestored example since you apparently have some sort of a restoration bias.

Two identical, unrestored original vehicles are on the show field in near identical condition. Car #1 is completely authentic with its original, factory installed battery, headlights, hoses, belts, and clamps. Car #2 has an era correct non-authentic replacement battery, era correct non-authentic belts, hoses, and clamps and era correct headlights of a non-authentic brand. All other things being equal, both cars would score the same, even though car #1 were a more exact example of "how the factiory delivered the car".

If however, car #1 had one of its original headlights replaced with an era correct but non-authentic brand (the same brand that is in car #2) it would receive a judging point deduction for having mis-matched headlights and would score lower than car #2. This hardly seems logical. This is the basis of our consternation not the merits of restoration versus originality.

Actually your argument about originality is perfectly aligned with most Marque Specific clubs that I belong to. At NCRS for example, materials that are at all distinguishable from original receive a judging point deduction, simulated tar top batteries get a judging point deduction, over-restored body panels receive a judging point deduction, obvious non-original base/clear would receive a judging point deduction, incorrect carpeting materials would receive a judging point deduction, reproductions that are in any way distinquishable from original receive judging point deductions... even Lectric Limited's T-3 reproductions are point deducted at NCRS because they contain the DOT marking on the lenses and the originals did not.

At AACA there may not be a deduction for these restoration issues or items but there is no point advantage either. Incorrect restoration however is deducted. It would seem that attempting to preserve or reproduce the correct appearance, material, texture, part, or manufacturing techniques has merit in the preservation of the vehicle. So what does this have to do with permitting NAPA batteries in lieu of Delco or FoMoCo or GE headlights in lieu of Guide T-3's? How does this at all relate to any representation of how the manufacturer delivered the vehicle? Heck using that logic, on any non original car should just stick an Optima battery in, put radial tires on, convert to disc brakes, add air shocks, install an electric fuel pump, and throw in an iPOD enabled radio, stick it on a grassy field or parking lot and call it a car show..... Oh wait, they already do that.... its called a cruise in!

Original, unrestored cars are by far the most valuable comodity in this hobby. They are only original once, thus the unrestored early Olds that sold for over $1M at Hershey a few years ago. Second to an original, a closely represented, correctly and acurately restored example using NOS, used reconditioned, or quality repop parts is far more desireable to me than a vehicle that is made up of parts that were never used by the manufacturer and don't even look the same as originals, but are perhaps cheaper or easier to come by.

[John348]

Bhigdog,

"AS DELIVERED" are the words that the AACA uses in their judging schools

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> you apparently have some sort of a restoration bias.

</div></div>

I agree with everything you say except the above quote. Not sure where that came from. My rant against the currently available repro batteries is not that "NAPA" batteries should be allowed simply because they are "better". My position is they should be allowed simply to break the strangle hold the repro battery people have. I don't like being the recipient of unwanted financial intercourse.....Bob

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> AS DELIVERED" are the words that the AACA uses in their judging schools</div></div>

And that is widely ignored, John, as my longish post above illustrates. Hey guys, I really don't have any problem with any of the judging rules any of the clubs have. I'll play the game as it's played and I'll do OK, as my cars judging credits attest. I know how to play the game. I just would like to see the clubs flex thier muscles a bit to help bring some repro people to improve their products. I think that's a worthy idea.

John, you've had good luck with your batteries as have some others. Many more do not............Bob

[impala]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bhigdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

That's the reason the junk repro battery deal is a sore point with me. I have $1000 of totally junk batteries sitting under my bench for no good reason. I don't like being forced to p**s money down a rat hole for no good reason. Respectfully....Bob </div></div>

You can put those junk batteries to good use. I read a writeup but can't remember where. You can cut the top off, remove the junk guts, put an Optima in the case (or any other quality battery), connect the terminals to the existing top posts, glue the top back on and you have a reliable battery that looks original.

impala

[Bhigdog]

That's the ultimate plan, thanks...........Bob

[Starfire61]

You can put those junk batteries to good use. I read a writeup but can't remember where. You can cut the top off, remove the junk guts, put an Optima in the case (or any other quality battery), connect the terminals to the existing top posts, glue the top back on and you have a reliable battery that looks original.

impala

Does anyone have any tips on how to do this? I'd like to know what Optima batteries would fit within a group 60 case & how to do the top terminal connections.

I have an expensive repro Delco group 60 battery that died after a year & a half. At last year's Olds Nationals I did exactly what Bob described- drove the car onto the field with the 7 year old NAPA battery & then swapped in the dead one. I'll be damned if I waste another $300 on another POS repro.

Chuck

[Bhigdog]

Here's my tentative plan, Chuck. Drain the battery completely and refill several times with a baking soda solution to neutralize any acid. I'll cut wherever the top hold down will hide the incision. Cut the guts away leaving the posts intact. Drill and tap 5/16-18 holes in the bottom of the posts to bolt connectors to. Make short connector cables from the Optima to the posts. There must be enough clearance in the case to accomodate the curled up connector cables.

Of course if someones actually performed the surgery I'd like to hear about it.

Or......... the Clubs could just make the POS repro's optional and eliminate the phoney monkey motion......Bob

[John348]

But Bob, why did I and others have good luck? Most time when people have a problem with a repro battery they are over charging it

I think it would be easier to just put the shell in on the show field and remove your other battery

John

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But Bob, why did I and others have good luck</div></div>

Admittedly there are some that report "good luck" but there are many more that say the repro's "SUCK".

Also admittedly it's all anecdotal. I've not disected a repro, I've not anylized the grid plate's paste, nor have I counted the plates or anylized the alloy. I do however know that the three repro's I've bought have lasted three years each with year three being noticably weak. On the other hand my other two vehicles, the 39 Chevy and 69 Vette have had Deka batteries under the exact same conditions and maintenance and they last at least seven years at one third the price. The 39 has a regulater and the Vette an alternater. I'll also say the three cars with the repro-failures all have brand new regulaters and the charging rate always seemed normal.

Perhaps the luck factor is just that. If so then the indictment would be lack of quality control not willfull shoddyness, but the result is still the same. The customer getting screwed.

Just as an aside, two years ago, at Hershey, I was trying to get to the bottom of the problem by talking to the battery rep. His answer was to sell me an "Optima" battery in a repro case. He repeatedly said it was an Optima battery inside. When I asked him point blank "is the battery inside this case made by the Optima battery co. he said "well it's an Optima type and is just as good". I find that a telling insight into the ethics of those people.

Also as an aside, while I was chatting with him two seperate men walked by and loudly said "don't buy one they're junk". And that's the truth.

As to why I simply don't change batterys for a show, my answer is I think that is very close to cheating. The AACA rules say the car must be driven onto the field. The clear implication being that the car be functional, as displayed. A car being displayed with a known dead battery is clearly NOT functional.

There is also something of a principle involved. I find it truly a breach of responsibility for any club to condone it's members being ripped off when it could easily stop it.

So, I will either jerry rig a working battery that looks "real" thus satisfing both the drive on rule and the judges or I will show with my plain black Deka battery and take my lumps like a man..........Bob

[impala]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Starfire61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Does anyone have any tips on how to do this? I'd like to know what Optima batteries would fit within a group 60 case & how to do the top terminal connections.

Chuck </div></div>

I'll look for the writeup I was talking about but as I remember is was pretty much as Bob describes it.

To go further, after the Optima is in place in the old case I would maybe spray some of that expanding foam around to keep the Optima from sliding around.

impala

[Jay Wolf]

I used to do the new every 2-3 year battery game till I bought a Battery Tender for each and have plugged in at all times. I have not replaced a battery since and the one in my 6v 55 Tbird is 6 years old. When the car sets with a Teapot it has to crank a long time to start it, no problem with a 6 year old battery. Same with the batteries in the Trailers I used to replace them almost every year, but 12 v battery tenders on them took car of that, I can say the same for my Motorcycle batteries.

I am a firm beleaver in Delton Battery Tenders. (not cheap trickle charger).

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jay Wolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to do the new every 2-3 year battery game till I bought a Battery Tender for each and have plugged in at all times. I have not replaced a battery since and the one in my 6v 55 Tbird is 6 years old. When the car sets with a Teapot it has to crank a long time to start it, no problem with a 6 year old battery. Same with the batteries in the Trailers I used to replace them almost every year, but 12 v battery tenders on them took car of that, I can say the same for my Motorcycle batteries.

I am a firm beleaver in Delton Battery Tenders. (not cheap trickle charger). </div></div>

Jay, I agree 1000%. I too used to go through batteries in my show cars every 2-3 years.

Then I too found out about Battery Tender Chargers. These chargers are not like "trickle" chargers.

The Battery Tender chargers have a microprocessor that monitors battery condition and switches to various charge modes as needed.

The Battery Tenders come in a waterproof model as well as a regular model designed to be used indoors.

I use the optional 20 ft extension cable so the Battery Tender remains in my garage and I can charge the trailer

and tow vehicle batteries parked outside.

I have 5 Battery Tenders that I use on batteries that are 4+ years, 5+ years, 5+ years, 8 years+ and 13+ years old.

Yes, you read that right, one of my batteries is 13 years old and still going strong.

FYI, this is an OEM battery purchased thru a dealer parts department with the automaker's name on it.

For people who are serious about protecting their investment in the batteries in their Antique Vehicles,

Battery Tenders are the only way to go, IMHO.

BTW, I do not work for Battery Tender . I am just one VERY Satisifed, Long Term, Customer.

[John348]

This is what I meant by "maintained"

[jaxops]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There is no rule that says you can't swap batteries, tires, valve stem caps or any other part on the showfield. I have seen quite a few owners swap the tires and then put show hubcaps/wheelcovers on. </div></div>

THIS is the heighth of absurdity! Disabling a car and swapping out parts just to pass the "test" means that either the "test" is of dubious quality or this kind of "cheating" shouldn't be permitted.

This kind of change won't happen in my lifetime. I had to say it even if it makes no difference.

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Disabling a car and swapping out parts just to pass the "test" means that either the "test" is of dubious quality or this kind of "cheating" shouldn't be permitted.

</div></div>I don't know. I've seen people pull in with no hubcaps and wait until they get to the showfield before they put them on. That way they aren't getting lost, stolen or damaged.

I wouldn't say that is cheating, I look at it as more of a case of protecting their investment and being serious about their car. Depending on how you get your car from home to the meet, that may be what you have to do. There are things we'd do different if we were bringing our vehicles to the meet on an open trailer.

[Guest quadfins]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaxops</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There is no rule that says you can't swap batteries, tires, valve stem caps or any other part on the showfield. I have seen quite a few owners swap the tires and then put show hubcaps/wheelcovers on. </div></div>

THIS is the heighth of absurdity! Disabling a car and swapping out parts just to pass the "test" means that either the "test" is of dubious quality or this kind of "cheating" shouldn't be permitted.

This kind of change won't happen in my lifetime. I had to say it even if it makes no difference. </div></div>

But what is the difference between this, and someone who unloads the car out of the trailer, collects his trophy, and loads the car back in, not to be seen again until the next judged show? I'd rather see the car driven, even with a modern battery, and then an era-correct battery swapped in, than relegate the car to complete "trailer-queen" status.

I drive my car to shows, and everywhere else. Rather than paying $400 every 3 years for a correct-appearing battery, I'd rather put that money into the gas tank.

Jim Eccleston

1961 Coupe deVille

BATILAC

AACA senior

CLC senior

driven, with period-correct battery, to EVERY show

[Guest windjamer]

My step-son bought a repo. Delco batt. for his mother for a mothers day present in 2002. I think it was about $125. It started the car fine in April, but is sulfated now and will not hold or take a charge. Gettysburg is right awrond the cornor so I will put a modern batt in and swap it for the bad Delco at the show,but I will have a new repo.Delco in it for Hershey. I dont think $125.-$135. for seven years is all that expensive,and outher than takeing the batt out and storing it in a warm place and useing only distiled water I guess I didnt maintane it vary good. If I get a battery tender maby I could get 10 years out of it.

[rocketraider]

My four-port Battery Tender is the single best investment I ever made for my old cars. I have not had battery problems since purchasing it and it keeps my repop Group 60 charged to 1.260 SG. It maintains a total of seven batteries- four in the cars, and three spares including an Auto Zone 60 month that I let go dead, then got reactivated and fully charged. It is now 7 years old and still load tests good.

Chuck brings up a valid point about the Group 60 as used in 54-64 Olds and some 50s Cad and Buick. Shape and size of that battery case precludes stuffing Optima guts inside it.

It is also unfortunately the only battery that will fit properly in a 1963-64 Olds battery tray and not flop around. I'm told a Honda battery will set in the tray properly, but never tried it myself.