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Super hard Drill Bits


Guest SwiftBuicks

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Guest SwiftBuicks

A chassis bolt on my Toyota 4-runner snapped off leaving nothing with which to grip it. It is rusted/frozen in. I drilled a hole in it, placed a bolt extractor in the hole and then proceeded to snap off the easy out. I have not been able to remove this broken easy-out. I tried drilling it out with a cobalt tipped drill bit, but it wasn't hard enough. Someone said I would have to use a diamond drill bit. Is there somewhere I can obtain one on-line?

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What diameter drill bit do you require. I sell two different "hard steel" bits. They are not diamond. They are both carbide. One is expensive - carbide tipped --- the other very expensive - solid carbide.

You can go to www.chromate.com to view the catalog of the company I sell for. It is a pdf. If nothing else, you can learn about the bits and maybe find them at a local industrial distributor. Good Luck

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Body shops have a device that uses magnets to apply heat without heating the surrounding items. I'll bet you need heat before using an extractor.

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The "easy out" is made of tough steel, while hard it is not as hard as others.

I think you will need to try a grinder to at least start a pilot hole in the Easy-out. Otherwise it is hell trying to get any drill started on the broken item. Then you might have some luck with a drill. The size is also critical. If the bolt is 3/8 you may have drilled a 1/4 in it so the best approach is to start small and work up.

I have not had much luck with carbide "tipped" drills because most are sold for concrete and are not sharpened properly for steel. I will give you a carbide tipped drill but you will probably need to take it somewhere and have it sharpened to work.

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Depending on exactly where the twisted bolt is located:

If possible, take the vehicle to a GOOD welder. Have the welder weld through the center of a nut held against the twisted bolt. Just leave the not-so-easy-out in place. Once the nut has been attached, use a wrench to remove the nut and the twisted bolt. The heat from the welder will help loosen the bolt.

Jon.

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If you go the carbide bit direction, use one designed for "hard steel". Do not waste your time with a bit designed for concrete. They are two different animals. If you go to the site I provided above, www.chromate.com , you'll be able to get a good look at what you need. Also, the suggestion of going with a rotary file (carbide burr) is an excellent suggestion.

Good Luck.

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Guest halofaller

Dremel with a carbide bit. You will go through one, maybe two bits but you can drill it out.

The dremel will run at about 30,ooo rpms and will work pretty quick. You can also get diamond grinder bits for the dremel. You can find these things in most hardware stores.

Wear safety glasses or this could be the last post you read. Good luck.

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Guest SwiftBuicks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halofaller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wear safety glasses or this could be the last post you read. Good luck. </div></div> That's pretty funny. Actually, the dremel route seems like the best one for me right now, but I considered all the posts. I'm no amateur at this. The bolt snapped off almost flush to the piece of steel in which it sits. The easy-out snapped off flush as well. Unfortunately, the bolt sits in a piece of steel that is shrouded by another piece of the chassis. Effectively, it is counter-sunk. If I took the front end apart, I could expose the bolt and perhaps find enough of the bolt to get a grip on it, either by welding a bolt to it or using vice grip pliers, but that would be a very big and difficult project. I used a 5/16" cobalt bit made by Irwin for hardened steel which is smaller than the bolt. I could go smaller. However, I would then need to stick another easy-out in and run the risk of breaking that off. When I worked as a Ski shop tech we loosened frozen screws by heating them with soldering iron tips. I might try that with this bolt. I did use a torch to heat the metal around it. I also brought the vehicle to a garage. They tried drilling it out to no avail. The mechanic came up with a way to clamp the joint, but I only see this as a temporary solution. However, I didn't insist that they persist at extracting the broken bolt as the bill was bad enough as it was. The clamp, their solution, would work if I don't take the SUV off road, but I can't live with that. When my garage warms up, I'm going to re-examine the problem. (By the way, I didn't create this problem, it was there when I bought the vehicle.)

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Guest DTerry

Ever tried removing a broken bolt with a hammer and a center punch? I broke an A/C compressor mount bolt once, and the man I called to fix it came to the house and drove it out with a center punch by putting it off-center of the bolt and tapping it with a hammer, imparting a counter-clockwise torque. The next time I broke a bolt I tried that technique, and - believe it or not! - it worked. I was amazed.

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There are a number of ways to remove a broken bolt, have used a hammer and chisel myself. That said I think the LAST thing I'd try is an "easy out" - if it is stuck enough to break the head off, it will probably snap the easy out & If going to drill anyway, might as well use a tap drill and just retap.

Realize this is a bit late but suspect there are those who have never been in this situation.

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Guest SwiftBuicks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DTerry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ever tried removing a broken bolt with a hammer and a center punch? </div></div> Actually, I did try this method after the easy-out broke. It's worked for me often in the past. However, in this case it didn't, obviously. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: padgett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That said I think the LAST thing I'd try is an "easy out" - if it is stuck enough to break the head off, it will probably snap the easy out & If going to drill anyway, might as well use a tap drill and just retap.

</div></div> The truth would be that the <span style="font-weight: bold">FIRST </span>thing one should try would be using an easy-our because if it works, it is just that i.e. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">easy</span></span>. However, one should be especially careful not to snap it. Unfortunately, I wasn't. My mistake was torquing the tool too much, not using it. It's a failure of my skill, not a failure of my method. Of course it's all well and good to offer criticisms after the fact. It's a nightmare trying to extract a bolt with a broken easy-out in it. I knew this before I used the tool. However, since I don't do this kind of job often enough, I have been put in the difficult position of facing a near impossible job. I appreciate any positive help offered.

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Sorry, I meant that as a warning to others. I have had very bad luck with easy outs in the past.

That said if the bolt is big enough, you might try drilling two holes, one on each side of the easy out, tapping them and put a smaller set of screws on each. Then you can slide a screwdriver between them and torque the remnant.

Alternately, grind everything flush and create a new bolt hole offset slightly.

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I can tell you from experience as a machinist for over 25 years that you are indeed in an almost impossible situation. It is a situation to be avoided at all costs. If you could get the part off there is a machine that is made for removing a broken tap or easy-out called an EMD machine. I have never heard of a portable EMD machine that could be used in this case.

I would like to offer a few suggestions. The first would be, don't concentrate on removing the easy-out in order to get the bolt out. You need to think outside the box.

1. Find some Aero-Kroil penetrating oil and apply it multiple times over a 24 hour period or longer, from the top if possible, so gravity will help get the oil into the threads. Nothing else works a well as Aero-Kroil to loosen bolts. Period.

I don't know what your particular situation is. You have not indicated the size of the bolt or details about how much room you have to work etc. I'm going to assume a chassis bolt would be 7/16 or 1/2 inch. When you twisted the easy-out off you applied enough pressure to probably swell the bolt and make it tighter in the hole.

2. Here is how I would go about removing the bolt after applying the Aero-Kroil:

Using a punch with a flat end, that has a diameter slightly smaller than the threads of the bolt, apply several blows with a hammer to help break any corrosion loose. You don't want to hit it real hard. You want to hit it multiple times in order to vibrate the treads loose.

3. Lightly center punch two spots on the edge of the bolt, at the parting line of the threads, 180 degrees across from each other.

4. Using a <span style="text-decoration: underline">new, high quality</span> 1/8" drill bit, drill holes straight through the treads of the bolt where you made the center punch marks. Doing so will relieve the pressure between the bolt and the nut caused by the easy-out. Go slow and easy with the drill bit. Drill the holes as straight through the threads as possible. Your goal is to drill out the threads on each side of the bolt.

5. Follow up with a 1/4" drill bit.

6. Now you are ready to try removing the bolt. You will need a pair of strong, good quality, needle nose pliers that you can sacrifice for this job. You want to grind the jaws of the pliers to make a special tool that will slide into the 1/4" holes you drilled and grasp the sides of the bolt and still have room to turn. You will have to use your imagination on what will work best. Keep in mind that you are NOT relying on brute force to turn the bolt. You are relying on paragraphs 1, 2 and 4 above to have the bolt loosened up.

If you are still unable to get the bolt to move, apply more penetrating oil up through the holes and let it sit. If it still does not move, drill two more holes 90 degrees to the ones you already have and try to remove it again. DO NOT break the pliers off in the holes.

None of this is easy work but it will eventually get the bolt removed. Once the bolt is removed I recommend buying a proper size HeliCoil kit and install it OR drill and tap for the next size larger bolt.

Good luck with a very hard job.

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playing off Ronnie's post;

I would recommend, if available, instead of the heli-coil - try keensert brand. They require a little more room, but are far superior. They are a solid thread replacer, the taps are 'common' sizes, and are easier to use.

Good luck

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Guest SwiftBuicks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: padgett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry, I meant that as a warning to others. I have had very bad luck with easy outs in the past.

</div></div> No offense taken. I have not been lucky with them much, either. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can tell you from experience as a machinist for over 25 years that you are indeed in an almost impossible situation. It is a situation to be avoided at all costs. </div></div> In addition to having snapped easy-outs in them,I have trouble over-torquing bolts. I think part of the difficulty comes from not doing this kind of work regularly. However, I have never left a bolt with an easy-out in it in a car. This, however, is probably the worse situation I have put myself in. The trouble would be that I can't get a good angle on either a punch or a pair of vise-grip pliers. The beam that the bolt sits in is shrouded by another hollow beam. (I probably can take a photo and submit it some time.) It's in the front and this has something to do with the 4-wheel drive design I am sure. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good luck with a very hard job. </div></div>Thanks Ronnie for the post. I printed it out to follow in my work.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. Find some Aero-Kroil penetrating oil and apply it multiple times over a 24 hour period or longer, from the top if possible, so gravity will help get the oil into the threads. Nothing else works a well as Aero-Kroil to loosen bolts. Period.</div></div> I ordered two cans. They asked for an e-mail address. Perhaps a verification will be sent there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I don't know what your particular situation is. You have not indicated the size of the bolt or details about how much room you have to work etc. I'm going to assume a chassis bolt would be 7/16 or 1/2 inch. </div></div> It's metric, 12 or 13 as I remember. Unfortunately it's in a less than ideal position. I will re-examine it shortly. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you twisted the easy-out off you applied enough pressure to probably swell the bolt and make it tighter in the hole.</div></div>

damn!!! It's tough being the Gorilla in the room.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4. Using a <span style="text-decoration: underline">new, high quality</span> 1/8" drill bit </div></div> Actually, I just bought one. In addition I ordered a Dremel tool and tapered-head diamond drill bit.

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NOTE: The reason I said "new, high quality drill bit" is because a dull bit will not always drill a straight hole. If you have put too much pressure on it, it will flex causing it to run to one side.

When you drill the hole go slow apply just enough pressure to make it cut. Hold the bit as straight as possible. You want the hole to go straight up the line where the threads part. The drill will follow that line due to the path of least resistance if you start out in the line where the threads of the bolt and nut meet. Don't put enough pressure on the bit to flex it.

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Guest halofaller

There is a much easier way. I've used this before and it is a take off from the Dremel solution. I read your post again and realized that there is a recess involved that makes things even more difficult.

You'll still use a Dremel. No drill is going to develop the RPMs you need to do this. It is not a matter of power or torque. That is what caused this problem in the first place.

Take some bar stock, say 1/4 inch. You're going to make this piece as sort of a guide. Not knowing exactly what you're seeing I'm saying that you measure and fab that piece so you can fix it in front of the easy-out/bolt in question.

Next drill the plate using a bit diameter equal to the shaft of the diamond Dremel bit. If the bit isn't long enough (and it most like will not be) have someone weld a longer shaft to it. Don't worry since the plate is going to support the bit and keep it true.

Insert the bit through the plate into the Dremel. Fix the plate to in front of the piece you are drilling out. Go to work. You can probably get away with 10-15k rpms. To make this a little easier I use the Dremel with the thin slaft extension since it is easier to hold and is flexible for tighter places.

Don't use any lube on the bit but make sure you have a vacuum running to suck away the metal dust. Every so often check the bit. Replace when necessary.

You can go though about 2 inches of tool steel in 30 minutes or so. Like any drilling process, steady pressure is NOT what you want. In with pressure, then back out. If you don't mind spending some extra dollars you can get a foot pedal speed adjuster to makes things even easier.

A regular drill is just a pain to use because you don't get enough feel and too much power. Again, you don't need a lot of power, just patience and a supply of bits. The Dremel bits don't drill into the material, they grind into it.

This will work, it will just cost you the price of admission (about $200 total). The bright side is that you'll use this tool for all kinds of things.

Hope you get it fixed.

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Guest SwiftBuicks

Well, you probably are going to hate me for this fellas, but I shouldn't have started this thread. It seems that the garage I hired to extract the bolt did just that. However, the mechanic didn't complete the job the way I wanted. I don't know why he decided to jerry-rig a solution and secure the plate with a hose clamp and not use the bolt hole at all, but everything worked out in my favor. He covered the hole with a piece of rubber hose so I couldn't see it. I decided this morning to remove his clamp and look at the frozen bolt. Low and behold, it was gone, leaving a beautifully open and clear hole. The threads in the hole were stripped, but after filing the hole out, I was able to snake a lock washer and nut on a piece of coat hanger into the chassis beam and engage a bolt through them. This would be the second bolt on this plate that I've replaced in a similar fashion. I was able to tighten both bolts fully and it's good as new!!!! I didn't need the dremel after all, but will probably use it for something else soon. The job took me two hours and a half. Now, the next job this afternoon will entail climbing a 40 foot ladder and working on the house. Damn, there's no end to work, is there?

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Guest Bill_Boro

Great suggestions on this thread!

One that is missing is using a Counter Clock Wise (CCW) drill bit(s). They are available at NAPA and other outlets. They work especially well if used from the start & inconjunction with the other stress relief and lube suggestions. Starting with a small diameter drill in the center of the bolt for a pilot hole and increasing drill size until you approach the size of the original bolt diameter has always worked for me. Usually the larger bit (the last one used!) will grab the remaining bolt at some point and spin it out.

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I don't usually plug products (and I have absolutely no connection with this company) but I am amazed by the Bad Dog Tools brand of drill bits.

http://www.baddogtools.com/cat.php?id=2

This company sells at tool shows and the spiel sounds like the Shamwow guy. I am always very skeptical of "snake oil" marketing like this. A friend of mine bought a set of these drill bits and I used them on several occasions with amazing results. I was able to drill holes in a leaf spring from my truck (OK, it was a BROKEN leaf...) with no problems. I really used these bits when I had to remove the pinion shaft in the rear axle of my station wagon. The lock bolt had broken off inside the pinion shaft (apparently a common problem on Chevy axles) and I did not have the special kit for removing the broken bolt. I used the Bad Dog bits to drill in the end of the hardened pinion shaft and into the remaining end of the bolt. This allowed me to remove the remains of the bolt and ultimately the pinion shaft. (It should tell you something about how often this happens that the local GM dealer had the replacement parts on the shelf for a 25 year old car...).

Anyway, I also broke one of the bits. They have a lifetime warranty and the company replaced it for the cost of postage. I now have my own set. I suggest these bits will drill out the offending bolt with no problems.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest SwiftBuicks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juddev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 cans of aero kroil for 12.00 delivered

HERE </div></div> My two cans arrived two days ago. However, I'm still waiting for the dremel tool.

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Guest F14CRAZY

we have a "Production Tool Supply" store in lansing that's "open to the public", along with a Mid-States Bolt and Screw...their drill bits are amazing

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